Protank Cotton Rebuild, the way I do it

[MacTechVpr]

So I spent the last month or so experimenting with protank coils, thanks in large part to this thread -- and I would be remiss if I failed to mention the infectious enthusiasm of Frédéric Bastiat MacTechVpr, whose posts on this and other subjects I've long admired.

Nice to see you made some time away from the cantankerous madness of debate to join us here. It's sometimes tempestuous as your avatar but always informative. And thank you for the generous accolades. We try to be of service.

At first, I had nothing but problems with the Protank (2); my evod worked quite well, but not noticeably better than other clearomizers. Then I switched from silica to organic cotton with similar results for the Protank and significantly better results for the evod. Then I ordered some aero-tank base pieces, along with a mini-Protank (2). When those items arrived, I thought, "In for a penny, in for a pound," and tried boiling my organic cotton in distilled water.*

Holy crap. Vape heaven, on all three devices, except now the eVod is by far the worst of the three. Leaving aside some minor complaints about the quality of the threads on the mini-Protank, I feel that the mini is the best self-contained device for rebuilding. The regular Protank (2), at least in my experience, is endlessly fiddly, endlessly capricious, with the stock base.

Anyway, all of this is a long way of saying, thanks to all who've posted here!

(* - I make no claims about the health benefits of boiling cotton before using it. I tried boiling simply to see if it would improve taste. I also don't want to sound as if the wick was the major determining factor; I also got better at coiling, and more importantly, better at positioning coils within the tiny 'cup' area of the protank head, during my adventures. Cotton certainly seems a lot easier to work with though, if nothing else.)

Some excellent observations and conclusions. The Mini's a sleeper. You've followed a familiar path where ultimately cotton is a marvel once its proper density and place is found. But I've been striving tirelessly to diversify researching a wider variety of options, a broader pathway to the discovery of flavor in vaping. A good part of that is having the right tools, the right cookware if you will, to enjoy the passage. It seems you may be stocking up your own, lol. Some good ones too!

I'm off to bed after a very full evening with owner partners of a local B&M, a promising candidate for rebuilding central in South Florida. I wish it for them and all establishments run by real vapers. These I encourage.

I wish you much luck Fulgerant.

 

[MacTechVpr]

As Mac said, Rip is great at building enthusiasm and getting the basics of how things are done. Not to mention he's thoroughly entertaining. Use his enthusiasm and the tension micro coil process detailed in the previous posts to have an incredible vape experience.

Sent from my Galaxy Note 3 via Tapatalk.

I echo that 100%+. And I know there is a coherent technical strategy behind his explanations and presentation. For likely some of the very same reasons I introduced methods leading to tension winding in steps. And he seizes the opportunity to build excitement with some great products to promote an interest in rebuilding them. I'm down. There's only so much you can do in a short video and you don't wan't to lose the crowd. He is an amazing carnival barker and has more captured the imagination of the public to appreciate the microcoil than anyone in vaping. That helps us all in the long run I believe. We owe him a debt of gratitude for the effort.

So if you're listening Rip, we thank you.

Please get around to tension winding. Electrical efficiency is cool. And so are efficient methods for getting there (for those of us who don't have the 100W box mod).

Good luck

 

[DaveP]

David, what is the diameter of the rod that you're winding on. Maybe we can come up with an accurate resistance figure. LMK. Curious and will help where I can.

Good luck.

First attempt was the 3.25mm rod. That one with 10 turns ohmed out at 5.2 ohms. Then, I wound another 10 turn micro coil on the 1.83mm rod. That one went 2.2 ohms. 32ga Kanthal is too small for the larger rods. I have 100 foot rolls of 28ga and 32ga coming from Amazon soon. I think 28 will be the sweet spot, although a 32ga Protank recoil with 3 turns on each side of the wick separated by a space might work, also. You can do that with the coil winder.

Those windings were just for proof of concept. The 2.2 ohm coil vapes nicely with a cotton coil wick and cotton flavor wick. Clouds of vapor were experienced. It still didn't exceed my Nautilus stock wicks for flavor, though. Soon, I'll try micro single coils in those. I have about 8 heads to play with.

 

[mightymen]

I wound a coil last night using 32 guage wire, 10 wraps. Once I installed it into a PT head it measured out at around 5 ohms! I knew it would be high. I just needed to confirm that I could wind a tight micro coil. I used the 3.2mm winder rod and it looked pretty wide for the head, but it fit and didn't short out. Now, I'm sure that winding a nano on a smaller diameter rod will be just what I need for lots of turns with a lower resistance.

Time will tell. I'll update. The coil winder from Hobby Lobby is going to be a major tool for me. I'm not really good with winding coils around needles and silica wick. It's much easier and much better for wicking if you can insert cotton after the wrap.

After reading your post got an idea I secured my wire to the 16 GA needle plastic part that I use with tape this part I cut off after trimming wires.

I was turning the coils with 16 GA needle free hand before.

Positive results.

1. wire is wrapped around needle tighter.
2. more even turns.
3. coils are wrapped close. - This was a big improvement.

All around big improvement.

 

[PariahNine]

See, I like the fact that the other one has the rotating part by the palm. Makes twisting extremely easy. I'm sure that set will do a great job. Let us know how you like it!

Sent from my Galaxy Note 3 via Tapatalk.

Six days later and they're here. The individual pin vise with the pivot head won't accommodate anything larger than 1mm, so for coil building it's pretty much useless; though I suspect it'll work great for twisting wire when I work up the gumption to give it a try. Structurally it's a solid tool, all parts are metal including the collet.

The set of four are really well made and covered in oil. Took a bit of cleaning to get the oil off the one I decided to try, which was the smallest of the set. Works really well; holds both the 1/16th bit I use for wrapping and wire rigidly, though getting the collet to tighten down on both the bit and wire takes a little practice.

I had ordered a set of micro bits as well, but wasn't paying close enough attention and apparently ordered a set with the largest bit being 1mm.

While I don't have any use for the bits, nor an immediate need for the smaller pin vise, I'm happy overall with my purchase. The pin vise I'm using has made wrapping coils exponentially easier.

Tomorrow my first RDA, the Igo-W, should be here, along with the replacement grommets I ordered for my Kanger coilheads. I also ordered an M-16 clone with amazing reviews from Fasttech for less than $11, and VTC4 batteries from another stateside vendor; while the clone has shipped there's no way of knowing when it'll get here.

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk

 

[MacTechVpr]

First attempt was the 3.25mm rod. That one with 10 turns ohmed out at 5.2 ohms. Then, I wound another 10 turn micro coil on the 1.83mm rod. That one went 2.2 ohms. 32ga Kanthal is too small for the larger rods. I have 100 foot rolls of 28ga and 32ga coming from Amazon soon. I think 28 will be the sweet spot, although a 32ga Protank recoil with 3 turns on each side of the wick separated by a space might work, also. You can do that with the coil winder.

Those windings were just for proof of concept. The 2.2 ohm coil vapes nicely with a cotton coil wick and cotton flavor wick. Clouds of vapor were experienced. It still didn't exceed my Nautilus stock wicks for flavor, though. Soon, I'll try micro single coils in those. I have about 8 heads to play with.

I wish I had the time Dave. I still have not built my Nautilus, Aqua or Kay's. Have them a while and have for others. But building Kanger's out takes up much of my time. I recently finally though did my first atty's with twisted pair t.m.c.'s to a ~1.0Ω target using Nextel vs. ceramic or mesh. Truly very nice performance. Your result off 1.83mm seems good. A tad too wide for clearo slots and 29 AWG is a nice compromise between durability and firing time. Good coverage, vaporization and flavor. But 30AWG seems to be the best overall for the Kangers. My thing is testing wicking alternatives. We can't all use cotton and I research methods to efficiently build coils for specific wick/media diameters. Slowly trying to transition from clearo typical user requirements to my own and extensive collection of mods. We will get there.

Wish me luck.

 

[MacTechVpr]

First attempt was the 3.25mm rod. That one with 10 turns ohmed out at 5.2 ohms. Then, I wound another 10 turn micro coil on the 1.83mm rod. That one went 2.2 ohms. 32ga Kanthal is too small for the larger rods. I have 100 foot rolls of 28ga and 32ga coming from Amazon soon. I think 28 will be the sweet spot, although a 32ga Protank recoil with 3 turns on each side of the wick separated by a space might work, also. You can do that with the coil winder.

Those windings were just for proof of concept. The 2.2 ohm coil vapes nicely with a cotton coil wick and cotton flavor wick. Clouds of vapor were experienced. It still didn't exceed my Nautilus stock wicks for flavor, though. Soon, I'll try micro single coils in those. I have about 8 heads to play with.

I wish I had the time Dave. I still have not built my Nautilus, Aqua or Kay's. Have them a while and have for others. But building Kanger's out takes up much of my time. I recently finally though did my first atty's with twisted pair t.m.c.'s to a ~1.0Ω target using Nextel vs. ceramic or mesh. Truly very nice performance. Your result off 1.83mm seems good. A tad too wide a bit for clearo slots. 29 AWG is a nice compromise between durability and firing time. Good coverage, vaporization and flavor. But 30AWG seems to be the best overall for the Kangers. My thing is testing wicking alternatives. We can't all use cotton and I research methods to efficiently build coils for specific wick/media diameters. Slowly trying to transition from clearo typical user requirements to my own and extensive collection of mods. We will get there.

Wish me luck.

 

[PariahNine]

Alright, so my iGo-W will be in my mailbox in the next couple hours. I have 32g, 30g, and 28g Kanthal. I also have an untouched foot of XC-132. Wanna do my first build on this RDA with the XC. Any suggestions on coil diameter and gauge/wraps. While my 30a batteries will be here today, it'll be a minute before my first mech arrives from Fasttech, so I'll need a coil my SVD can fire.

I'm looking at you @MacTechVpr


P.s. I looked over the thread you linked, but there's so much there and so much intermingled noise in the thread that it's not very comprehensive. Figuring once I get my feet copiously drenched I'll draft some comprehensive quickstarts for folks like myself.
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[MacTechVpr]

Good Morning from a Fellow Floridian...I've been reading your blog with interest regarding micro coils and also using material from RBA supplies. You sure have done some extensive work and I thank you for adding to the literature. I don't know if I'm looking in the wrong place, but I can't seem to find the info about threading the "silica" (using that term for brevity and ease of typing) through the coil. Is that in the videos? I've been looking through the text so far…Thanks for your help. I'm having a ball learning the ins and outs of coil making and am even able to apply some of my long lost education doing so!! A win - win situation.

I got an inquiry from a pleasantly polite and interested blog reader on the unspoken enigma that troubles us vapers daily — How the hell do ya wick the thing???Because you know most everything don't fit into nothin' without bendin', squeezin', chockin' it, torchin' it or various and sundry loop-de-loops. To help I've been sharing how to build precise tensioned contact microcoils to fit wicks more exactly for many moons. And as I continue using stuff like silica, comparing it versus other wick media as it becomes available, I've found I actually enjoy or prefer some juices with these and in different devices. None of these are easy to thread neatly. So a bit back I gave it up with the following solution…And before I get any further along let me explain that rossum hinted a few posts later that it wasn't exactly cellophane that I might be talking about but the rather mundane and common kitchen plastic wrap. And so it is. It just works…

...Cut a small square of cello and fold the end of your wick material (don't cut any off) into the center of the square. The tip of the wick a half-inch or so from the edge of the square. Squeeze the wick firmly and press all the air out of the folded square. With a very flat straight edge metal or plastic ruler (thin plastic book markers are a good example, thin transparent rulers, another) hold the wick down firmly and edge underneath the wick tightly from end-to-end while you press in with the straight edge. Great, you have now compressed the wick almost 50%. Holding the wick with fingertips cut away about 3/4 of the cellophane from the rectangle. Now, roll a cigarette with it. The real skinny kind (if you get my meanin'). The result should be very well be almost half the Ø you started with. Oh yea, that extra strip of cello at the end, cut it on the bias. You now have a needle. A little heat (not flame) and you can harden it. Pull that through your coil and beyond, remove the cello, pull the wick back the other way as needed and you've got your set…at the correct diameter for that wick!Concratz! You now possess a thread-able wick. Perhaps for the first time in your vapin' career. Use it wisely. This technology is a threat to the powers that be…who skulk and plot on how to hide their loose winds selling you ever more pricey multi-coil clearo's promising your vape will improve!You just got the improvement. Vape on!

Good luck horton. Chime in anytime.

 

[bcollier9253]

I got an inquiry from a pleasantly polite and interested blog reader on the unspoken enigma that troubles us vapers daily — How the hell do ya wick the thing???Because you know most everything don't fit into nothin' without bendin', squeezin', chockin' it, torchin' it or various and sundry loop-de-loops. To help I've been sharing how to build precise tensioned contact microcoils to fit wicks more exactly for many moons. And as I continue using stuff like silica, comparing it versus other wick media as it becomes available, I've found I actually enjoy or prefer some juices with these and in different devices. None of these are easy to thread neatly. So a bit back I gave it up with the following solution…And before I get any further along let me explain that rossum hinted a few posts later that it wasn't exactly cellophane that I might be talking about but the rather mundane and common kitchen plastic wrap. And so it is. It just works…

Good luck horton. Chime in anytime.

Hey Mac! Imma gonna blog this post just in case it could help any lurkers to my profile. Great idea by the way, I have tried it and it works like a champ!

 

[Alter]

That kitchen wrap method sounds pretty cool. I'll be trying that to see if I can get it to work nicely. What I'm doing now to get around having to rewick my protanks so much all the time is that I unbraided some of my 2.5 hollow ekowool(unboiled and untorched) into single strands and with a bead threader inserting several strands and its working good. I can dryburn the wool several times before its rewicking time. With 2 of us vaping in the household having to rewick the coils with hemp so often became more of a chore. Also my wife doesn't like the breakin taste of both cotton or hemp, so she's happy and so am I.

 

[brookj1986]

That kitchen wrap method sounds pretty cool. I'll be trying that to see if I can get it to work nicely. What I'm doing now to get around having to rewick my protanks so much all the time is that I unbraided some of my 2.5 hollow ekowool(unboiled and untorched) into single strands and with a bead threader inserting several strands and its working good. I can dryburn the wool several times before its rewicking time. With 2 of us vaping in the household having to rewick the coils with hemp so often became more of a chore. Also my wife doesn't like the breakin taste of both cotton or hemp, so she's happy and so am I.

I got an inquiry from a pleasantly polite and interested blog reader on the unspoken enigma that troubles us vapers daily — How the hell do ya wick the thing???Because you know most everything don't fit into nothin' without bendin', squeezin', chockin' it, torchin' it or various and sundry loop-de-loops. To help I've been sharing how to build precise tensioned contact microcoils to fit wicks more exactly for many moons. And as I continue using stuff like silica, comparing it versus other wick media as it becomes available, I've found I actually enjoy or prefer some juices with these and in different devices. None of these are easy to thread neatly. So a bit back I gave it up with the following solution…And before I get any further along let me explain that rossum hinted a few posts later that it wasn't exactly cellophane that I might be talking about but the rather mundane and common kitchen plastic wrap. And so it is. It just works…

Good luck horton. Chime in anytime.

I tried that method with my 1/16th micro coil. Turned out great!

After closer look, not a prefect coil, but pretty decent.

Sent from my Galaxy Note 3 via Tapatalk.

 

[MacTechVpr]

Hey look gang you make a great coil, particularly a contact coil and the last thing in the world you want to do is disturb it. And in a clearo you really want to really pin down the coil and pulse into a micro before you wick. But there are times you really want to use a particular wick with a dripper say or more Eko in a tank. I understand. This simple plastic technique has gotten me out of trouble more times than I can tell ya.

On the ProTank though and many clearo's you can cure that micro and there is enough room to use the flex-wrap to wick the coil. A good example might by the silica version of Nextel, XS-116. Others I like are some variations of German or Russian Ekowool which I've found to be firmer. Some types of very high quality silica which some juices seem to prefer and taste awful in cotton.

I've always just wanted ya'll to just to get the darn coil down right! Tha's all.

I'm glad the wrap's workin' for some of you. I know what it's like to be desperate wanting to get that vape on.

Good luck.

 

[horton]

Subscribing to this very interesting thread. Thanks for the heads up MacTechVpr. I'm still trying to get the technique down for the "aglet" and am going back through the thread to try to pick up some tips. What a great idea!!! I've spent hours trying to thread different silica type wicks and even created some new words I can't mention here....lol.

 

[MacTechVpr]

Subscribing to this very interesting thread. Thanks for the heads up MacTechVpr. I'm still trying to get the technique down for the "aglet" and am going back through the thread to try to pick up some tips. What a great idea!!! I've spent hours trying to thread different silica type wicks and even created some new words I can't mention here....lol.

No worries dude. Exakly what I found first week in. Can't wick into the winds that work. I almost failed. Then the brain and hard drive kicked in and I thought…I know this! And now you're stuck with me, lol.

Learn to tightly localize the coil, make the wick and coil match so you have secure but not too tight contact then find the temperature you like. Build for that. Voila, most shorts and flooding gone along with the inclination to curse our luck and blame the hardware and vendors. It's not rocket science. But it almost looks like that to people starting out. Just trying to make it easy by demonstrating the obvious. It's not undecipherable hieroglyphics or voodoo tricks, no magic key held back in the vault at the vape shop. It's what we take for granted in every piece of technology we use but suspend disbelief and pretend we're fly fishermen. We're so desperate to believe we got the great best vape ever.

With a few electrical fundamentals and a little practice you become master of your vaping domain. Take back control over your life and choices…and spending!

What a difference a contact microcoil built around resistance makes. Then there is a universe of discovery for you.

Good luck.

 

[GeorgeWachsmuth]

Probably way behind...but..I've wound single coils for my EVODs and AROs and after a little learning curve, they are pretty good. Anyway..got tired of the blah performance on my Aerotank and decided to try a single coil rebuild. Using a little more cotton on top to "replace" the second coil. A little futzing around and the performance is much, much nicer. Wouldn't have tried it if I hadnt read about it in ECF. Thanks!

 

[MacTechVpr]

Probably way behind...but..I've wound single coils for my EVODs and AROs and after a little learning curve, they are pretty good. Anyway..got tired of the blah performance on my Aerotank and decided to try a single coil rebuild. Using a little more cotton on top to "replace" the second coil. A little futzing around and the performance is much, much nicer. Wouldn't have tried it if I hadnt read about it in ECF. Thanks!

George, welcome. Looks like you transcended vaping and joined the vapersphere. It's like flying for the first time. Take it from a lifelong pipe, cigar and analog smoker. But once you wind in seconds with tension as demonstrated by my above exhibit you are hooked on the feeling. The gear whatever you use starts to come in to its own. And the coils and termination methods translate even more easily to something like this…

That's a Helios dripper in my hand and L-R a Trident v2, Nimbus and Trident v1 drippers in the upper left background. They can all take single coils quite similar to what we use every day in our clearo's. But armed with what you just accomplished you could have a truly superlative vape very much approximating a true say cigar or analog experience. Not to diminish what you can do with an EVOD, it's rather impressive with the right coil and proper electrical geometry. Just sayin' George. You just opened up the heavens.

Congratulations!

 

[Wolfee]

New to vaping and the info here is very enlightening. Question though, in rebuilding coils, is it necessary to have a meter to test? I have 32 awg kanthal and plan to try my hand at wrapping. I would like to be at 1.8 ohm. What is the wraps that should achieve that without having to test.

 

[horton]

Definitely important to have to meter to check for both shorts and ohms. You can find them on many sites. There are ones especially for our hobby and the kind for electronics. Either is good, but the ones for vaping are nice because they can also be a stand to use when rebuilding a coil.
There is a program that you can use to figure out the coils -- think it is in the RBA section in the subsection of coils??? I'll try and find it or someone will chime in and point the way.

This isn't exactly what I was looking for, but it will give you an idea.....
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...ZEtmY0pPYzBvdUw2blJHVjdkc1E&usp=sharing#gid=0

 

[MacTechVpr]

Definitely important to have to meter to check for both shorts and ohms. You can find them on many sites. There are ones especially for our hobby and the kind for electronics. Either is good, but the ones for vaping are nice because they can also be a stand to use when rebuilding a coil.
There is a program that you can use to figure out the coils -- think it is in the RBA section in the subsection of coils??? I'll try and find it or someone will chime in and point the way.

This isn't exactly what I was looking for, but it will give you an idea.....
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...ZEtmY0pPYzBvdUw2blJHVjdkc1E&usp=sharing#gid=0

I agree with you wholeheartedly and don't understand why they don't bundle them with the equipment going out the door. They should.

The tables are a good guideline but it's not real world. Where is the common lead length or an input for it? And on what linear resistance are the tables based. Even for a clearo two wire diameters are insufficient to effectively target temperature. The tables do show relationships and so relative ratios but you need the wire res spec to make it meaningful. Thanks for the post but a bit beyond the scope of this thread, methinks horton. Although, we do get beyond the "how many winds" pseudo-reductionism found elsewhere.

You give wolf some real good advice on Ω. Stick around. I've got a post for him and you let me know if it helps.

Good luck.