Protank Cotton Rebuild, the way I do it

[MacTechVpr]

Thank you so much for all the thoughtful feedback and links!

My toolbox is shockingly sparse, so the links will definitely come in handy. Correct, meant to add they're hand wrapped on a 1.4mm screwdriver --- and that's about the sum total of my vapor's toolbox, everything else I use was stolen from my makeup bag (fingernail clippers and tweezers). No torch. Been trying to make due, but you've convinced me it'll be worth the (I now see) small investment to "man up" and buy some real tools.

I gotta say just taking the photo, cropping and blowing it up was a big eye opener. Way easier to see how wonky that leg is once I can actually, you know see it. I might have to start taking photos of all of them before I clip the wires.

The 28g heats up all weird and uneven so he's just sitting here....I did the load up wonky leg, but as you pointed out it starts tasting scorched if I vape at all quickly. So they're both getting scrapped and I'll try again.

Thanks again...I'll be back

Thanks em! I promise you you'll get so good you'll have 'em climbin' out of that makeup bag soon. It's just so much easier to wind another one after a while. And then you start to get picky then you're a goner. LOL A perfectionist. God help us.

Good luck.

 

[BK_Malik]

Quick question...

I'm doing 12 wraps of 28G kanthal on a #50 drill bit, works out to a solid 1.8Ω. For wicking I'm using 2mm rba Supplies ceramic + same material for flavor wick. Grommet is in place.

Flavor and VP are great but I can't get the voltage high enough for the TH that I want because I'm getting a burnt taste if I go over 3.4 volts on my Provari. It doesn't necessarily taste like rubber and I think that if the insulator was burnt I would get a rubber burnt taste no matter what voltage (I may be wrong here). It tastes more like burnt wick than rubber though. When I rebuilt it I noticed that there was a brown spot on the insulator and I cleaned it with alcohol before replacing it. This is really baffling me, any help would be appreciated.

Thanx!

 

[MacTechVpr]

Quick question...

I'm doing 12 wraps of 28G kanthal on a #50 drill bit, works out to a solid 1.8Ω. For wicking I'm using 2mm RBA Supplies ceramic + same material for flavor wick. Grommet is in place.

Flavor and VP are great but I can't get the voltage high enough for the TH that I want because I'm getting a burnt taste if I go over 3.4 volts on my Provari. It doesn't necessarily taste like rubber and I think that if the insulator was burnt I would get a rubber burnt taste no matter what voltage (I may be wrong here). It tastes more like burnt wick than rubber though. When I rebuilt it I noticed that there was a brown spot on the insulator and I cleaned it with alcohol before replacing it. This is really baffling me, any help would be appreciated.

Thanx!

A 90% or more probability you have a leg hanger. Doesn't have to be much. The pin is not stationary and the positive lead in it can easily contact the base housing if it's off center. That would produce a low marginal short and maybe a slight change of resistance, most definitely the kind of scorch that you mention. Need to check that and tuck it in tight if it's visible at all. But it could be as well a minute high pos end turn. You wouldn't see it hot if it's slight but it's enough to cause the problem. These are introduced when you do the set or reinstall your tank from pressure. Typically the grommet collapsing.

Let me guess here…you have a silicone grommet. Oh yea, all right. You see you won't taste a burn on the new ones with the pure soft silicone. But it sure will compress and give you one. Curious. LMK.

Get back to ya and we'll work this out. Off to the rebuild wild horizons we go!

Later.

 

[BK_Malik]

A 90% or more probability you have a leg hanger. Doesn't have to be much. The pin is not stationary and the positive lead in it can easily contact the base housing if it's off center. Need to check that and tuck it in tight if it's visible at all. That would produce a low marginal short and maybe a slight change of resistance, most definitely the kind of scorch that you mention. But it could be as well a minute high pos end turn. You wouldn't see it hot if it's slight but it's enough to cause the problem These are introduced when you do the set or reinstall your tank from pressure. Typically the grommet collapsing.

Let me guess here…you have a silicone grommet. Oh yea, all right. You see you won't taste a burn on the new ones with the pure soft silicone. But it sure will compress and give you one. Curious. LMK.

Get back to ya and we'll work this out. Off to the rebuild wild horizons we go!

Later.

Thanks for the insight Mac! Got all of my hangers out and I'm finally up over 3.4 and getting the throat hit I was craving. Such a simple thing but it makes so much of a difference!

Thanks a lot my man

Peace

 

[kachuge]

Hey Mac,

followed your advice about the 30 gauge, more surface and stuff..........

I ended up doing about 5 builds in 30g and 5 more in 32g...........

and not much success in finding the answer to what I wanted...

but I did learn that all the stuff you keep repeating to everybody, and it does make a huge difference:

-about maintaining tension when you build,
-not twisting the kanthal
-clipping those legs real close to the grommet after install,
-watching out for bends and kinks in the coil or legs,
etc etc

Who knew?! Technique does matter.... a lot!

So finally I found a build that i think is perfect for me......

It's actually not built on a drill bit, but on a rivet......
bigger than 1/16 but smaller than 5/64.....strange huh?! 9/128?
and it fits in the burner housing slots,
and i can just squeeze/twist 2mm silica through the coil after it's been installed.

30 gauge, an 8/7 wrap of kanthal, with resistance of 1.95........ this is much better than before

...and of course you were right, the 30 ga with the more surface, does give more taste!

thanks for the advice,

take care,

kachuge (george)
Protank mini II

 

[MacTechVpr]

Hey Mac,

followed your advice about the 30 gauge, more surface and stuff..........

I ended up doing about 5 builds in 30g and 5 more in 32g...........

and not much success in finding the answer to what I wanted...

but I did learn that all the stuff you keep repeating to everybody, and it does make a huge difference:

-about maintaining tension when you build,
-not twisting the kanthal
-clipping those legs real close to the grommet after install,
-watching out for bends and kinks in the coil or legs,
etc etc

Who knew?! Technique does matter.... a lot!

So finally I found a build that i think is perfect for me......

It's actually not built on a drill bit, but on a rivet......
bigger than 1/16 but smaller than 5/64.....strange huh?! 9/128?
and it fits in the burner housing slots,
and i can just squeeze/twist 2mm silica through the coil after it's been installed.

30 gauge, an 8/7 wrap of kanthal, with resistance of 1.95........ this is much better than before

...and of course you were right, the 30 ga with the more surface, does give more taste!

thanks for the advice,

take care,

kachuge (george)
Protank mini II

Geo, the important thing is you can reproduce it on the same bit, the same metric. Calculate what the resistance should be. Safety is the first objective of my build tests and tables; temperature targets and taste output second. For both though getting the install tight, down low, short-legged, symmetrical…all these things pay off. And they become second nature with a little practice so that you can whip these out. In fact they become a nuisance lying around. You could easily re-wick them but you just end up refining the approach over time and hey, you don't bother. I always keep a few for back-up from all these tests. I wish I had more of the 29's. See how it is? Let's make some more.

Good luck.

 

[f1vefour]

Mac you remind me of myself when I was still building kernels for an outdated device, was doing it because no one else would and was plenty of people still using the device. Just wanted to drop in and say it's a great thing your doing continually supporting this thread.

I commend your ongoing efforts and see others happily absorb the provided knowledge.

 

[MacTechVpr]

I appreciate your acknowledgement and observations f1ve always do. Just hope more take me up on the approach. We need a tsunami of new vapers adopting the vape lifestyle, moving on from the pre-pack markets to enjoy what we so gloriously do. And that's why I'm here. Enjoying every opportunity to share how I've amazed myself with discovery and to encourage that in others.

You take care and good luck!

 

[jamie0516]

Gotta save this to try later thanks

 

[madbricky-Craig]

I went with the first post being a creature of simplicity. Not bad, missed the amount of cotton slightly on my flavor wick I decided to add and it gurgled a bit. On a whim added a small twist on that and it vaporized great and incredibly with a much finer cloud. I'm an advanced electronics technician from the USN and all inductive coil theory aside the dynamics of vaporization it's new to me. Anyone have a good answer for a finer vapor production on heavier flavor wick. Guessing 60% cotton to coil wick on a T3S at 4 volts with an Ego clone. Thanks, Craig

 

[MacTechVpr]

I went with the first post being a creature of simplicity. Not bad, missed the amount of cotton slightly on my flavor wick I decided to add and it gurgled a bit. On a whim added a small twist on that and it vaporized great and incredibly with a much finer cloud. I'm an advanced electronics technician from the USN and all inductive coil theory aside the dynamics of vaporization it's new to me. Anyone have a good answer for a finer vapor production on heavier flavor wick. Guessing 60% cotton to coil wick on a T3S at 4 volts with an Ego clone. Thanks, Craig

Welcome craig. Could always use the help around here sorting this stuff out. And I have no doubt you will. Me, after nine months and almost 600 coil builds on Kanger's have yet to get the equation quite right on cotton. Mind you, I vape a tremendous variety of flavors, mostly tobacco, and this stuff's a lot like cooking. Everything requires it's own touch. However, there has been some interesting discussion of late on super_X's [conceived the] microcoil pic thread on Japanese fine cotton products…

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...icro-coils-increase-vapor-flavor-th-1092.html

The answer to me lies in the cotton fiber's directionality, density and consistency. I test a great many wick varieties and research electrically correct coil tech and this is the very next on my to do list. You might want to take a peek and do an advance search on that thread for the terms Koh Gen Do and KGD (separately, select the check box "show as posts").

If you'd just like to try it, here's a site offering it (as it's expensive)…

Japanese Certified Organic 100% Cotton | eLiquid.com

Ok craig, chime in or PM me anytime.

Good luck.

 

[f1vefour]

Your spot on about cotton Mac, the more continuous the fiber length the faster the wicking under stress (heat).

I get good enough wicking from certain hand selected balls, I don't just reach in and grab one....bit of a intended pun here..All balls aren't created equal

 

[MacTechVpr]

Your spot on about cotton Mac, the more continuous the fiber length the faster the wicking under stress (heat).

I get good enough wicking from certain hand selected balls, I don't just reach in and grab one....bit of a intended pun here..All balls aren't created equal

True that. And I'm using organic cotton balls myself for its simplicity. But I gotta tell you cotton taste is omnipresent to me and I can't cancel it out while vaping like even silica. Fiber length and tensile durability is critical. There cotton balls can be a disappointment during wicking. So more finely aligned and uniform varieties may be the answer to my eventual success on tanks. Anyway, it's my reasoning on the potential of KGD.

Thanks for the comeback f1ve.

Good luck.

 

[Scubabatdan]

I have just searched this entire thread, and no one has mentioned sugar'n cream organic cotton yarn (4 strand)
It is all directional and have been using it for awhile now. Best I have found for wicking.
Have tried cotton balls, wraps and Koh Gen Do cotton. This works best for me IMHO and it is easy to work with.

Dan

 

[MacTechVpr]

I have just searched this entire thread, and no one has mentioned sugar'n cream organic cotton yarn (4 strand)
It is all directional and have been using it for awhile now. Best I have found for wicking.
Have tried cotton balls, wraps and Koh Gen Do cotton. This works best for me IMHO and it is easy to work with.

Dan

First scuba, welcome, and let me thank you for gracing this thread with a post. You were a great inspiration to me as I was lurking before finally quitting in Jul last year. Your posts along with those of vapdvrr, superX, pdib and many others were very compelling that enough people were interested in the science to make this work, finally.

Gotta say I really appreciate your sharing in particular. It motivated me to pay back what I couldn't pay forward for all your efforts here, to join Metalhed's thread here and M_DuBb716's Protank Microcoil thread to expand on and popularize the contributions already made.

Sugar'n Cream organic cotton yarn's a great suggestion and must admit one I haven't tried.

Thank and,

Good luck scuba

 

[Scubabatdan]

First scuba, welcome, and let me thank you for gracing this thread with a post. You were a great inspiration to me as I was lurking before finally quitting in Jul last year. Your posts along with those of vapdvrr, superX, pdib and many others were very compelling that enough people were interested in the science to make this work, finally.

Gotta say I really appreciate your sharing in particular. It motivated me to pay back what I couldn't pay forward for all your efforts here, to join Metalhed's thread here and M_DuBb716's Protank Microcoil thread to expand on and popularize the contributions already made.

Sugar'n Cream organic cotton yarn's a great suggestion and must admit one I haven't tried.

Thank and,

Good luck scuba

No problem, you can find it in any Micheals craft store in the back in the yarn isles. Big Screen D linked this thread for up and coming Sabot-DDD owners. The Sabot is a adapter we designed for the Billet Box that uses ARO heads. So this thread is a perfect fit for those wanting to try vertical coils.

Make sure you pull off about 20' of the yarn and boil it for about 20-30 min then blot dry it and let it finish air drying. You have a life time supply there for about $2.50 LOL I use 2 2" pieces on a vertical coil, first piece fold over and place each piece of yarn on either side of the coil and push down. Second piece goes on top of that one, so when your finished you have 2 strands stacked on either side of the coil with 4 strands per side sticking out, then put the cap on and trim the wicks and your good to go.

For a horizontal coil I use the drill bit method and secure the connections and pull the dill bit out, then like sewing I fold over a piece of yarn and use and 1" piece of 32 kanthal folded in half to make a needle out of. I then thread that through the coil and wiggle the yarn though, cap and trim and I done.

Hope this helps.
Dan

 

[MacTechVpr]

Welcome craig. Could always use the help around here sorting this stuff out. And I have no doubt you will. Me, after nine months and almost 600 coil builds on Kanger's have yet to get the equation quite right on cotton. Mind you, I vape a tremendous variety of flavors, mostly tobacco, and this stuff's a lot like cooking. Everything requires it's own touch. However, there has been some interesting discussion of late on super_X's [conceived the] microcoil pic thread on Japanese fine cotton products…

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...icro-coils-increase-vapor-flavor-th-1092.html

The answer to me lies in the cotton fiber's directionality, density and consistency. I test a great many wick varieties and research electrically correct coil tech and this is the very next on my to do list. You might want to take a peek and do an advance search on that thread for the terms Koh Gen Do and KGD (separately, select the check box "show as posts").

If you'd just like to try it, here's a site offering it (as it's expensive)…

Japanese Certified Organic 100% Cotton | eLiquid.com

Ok craig, chime in or PM me anytime.

Good luck.

A good way to try a bit of this without breaking the bank. But it seems the link changed. Try this…

Japanese Certified Organic 100% Cotton | eLiquid.com

Good luck.

 

[MacTechVpr]

I went with the first post being a creature of simplicity. Not bad, missed the amount of cotton slightly on my flavor wick I decided to add and it gurgled a bit. On a whim added a small twist on that and it vaporized great and incredibly with a much finer cloud. I'm an advanced electronics technician from the USN and all inductive coil theory aside the dynamics of vaporization it's new to me. Anyone have a good answer for a finer vapor production on heavier flavor wick. Guessing 60% cotton to coil wick on a T3S at 4 volts with an Ego clone. Thanks, Craig

Didn't hear back from ya, so I thought I'd follow up. Getting cotton's density right might be easier than the confounded internal requirements of this simple tank in order to maintain proper electrical function. That in great measure is what this thread and the attendant advanced thread http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/clearomizers/486794-protank-microcoil-discussion.html are all about.

Have you tried a tensioned contact coil build yet craig?

Let me know and we'll hook ya up.

Good luck.

 

[stylemaster2001]

Just a quick add here, I got some Muji cotton off of Amazon...$9 for a lifetime supply I would imagine. Seems similar to the KGD. Very easy to work with!!!



eta...just rechecked Amazon and it's gone up in two weeks to $10.79, sorry for that, got it for 9 two weeks ago!

 

[MacTechVpr]

Just a quick add here, I got some Muji cotton off of Amazon...$9 for a lifetime supply I would imagine. Seems similar to the KGD. Very easy to work with!!!

eta...just rechecked Amazon and it's gone up in two weeks to $10.79, sorry for that, got it for 9 two weeks ago!

Thanks for that sm…and thanks for your likes! I've been eyeing this stuff carefully and have some J-cotton on the way. We will definitely scrutinize it vs. others I have in my study (as if I needed to run more Protanks, crikey). But duty calls!



Good luck.