- Status
As you may see from my repeated answers the electrical theory is not in dispute.
It's a paradox and dilemma you pose when you answer with theory in the absolute to explain a reported phenomena that indicates the opposite.
Who can argue with you cigatron? No one. The problem does not exist (as you state it). Your objection is out of context.
What it seems is avoided is that higher resistance returns do result from a thermal short (your nomenclature) from turn deviation (wire imperfections, unbalanced strain) which I attributed as the origin of impeded oxidation.
The issue isn't whether I'm wrong mathematically or scientifically. The OP's proposition that I and others have reported increased resistance after stabilization isn't being considered. And that is the sub-topic.
I believe my answer at #2067 was right on point and I stand by my statement and conclusion
As more wire length (appears to be insulated, deduction here) resistance drops under direct observation. Practical fact.
<shrug>
As a higher resistance is impossible (I'm reporting actual observations) in your qualified opinion cig what are we seeing?
I think that answer would be helpful and on point.
Good luck.
Last edited:
Cig, thank you for the deluxe cigamajigs bro. I like it. For shyts and giggles I affixed some 28 to it just to give it a spin and produced a perfect TMC in about 1.5 minutes. I didn't plan to use it, just wanted to try in in the short amount of time I had so I didn't care about the leg orientation or number of wraps.
That's my coil on the right. The other three you sent are damn impressive.
I am very appreciative of the gift and the craft of these simple yet effective tools.
I am going to shoot a vid in the very near future (hopefully next Friday) to demonstrate how this is even easier than the coil gizmo and I can REALLY tension the wire without bending the rod.
Ima gonna replace the screw in the 1/16 position with a Phillips that way I can use the same bit on my driver as my attys.
If I could think of any improvement It would be to start with a 1.5" block and mill it so the part where the screw goes is about 1/2" higher. that way the leg would have about 3/4" of straightness before any bend. Like this:
Thanks again Cig. Look forward to really using this bad boy
Last edited:
Cig, thank you for the deluxe cigamajigs bro. I like it. For shyts and giggles I affixed some 28 to it just to give it a spin and produced a perfect TMC in about 1.5 minutes. I didn't plan to use it, just wanted to try in in the short amount of time I had so I didn't care about the leg orientation or number of wraps.
That's my coil on the right. The other three you sent are damn impressive.
I am very appreciative of the gift and the craft of these simple yet effective tools.
I am going to shoot a vid in the very near future (hopefully next Friday) to demonstrate how this is even easier than the coil gizmo and I can REALLY tension the wire without bending the rod.
Ima gonna replace the screw in the 1/16 position with a Phillips that way I can use the same bit on my driver as my attys.
If I could think of any improvement It would be to start with a 1.5" block and mill it so the part where the screw goes is about 1/2" higher. that way the leg would have about 3/4" of straightness before any bend. Like this:
Thanks again Cig. Look forward to really using this bad boy
Very thoughtful of ya Russ. Thx.
I agree that winding on a handheld device has it's advantages. The narrower spread between the spool and winding surface affords more control of alignment. And you get a better feel for the strain being applied.
And for those that want to use or try a spaced wind this device allows you to create a proper symmetrical coil with tension (using the screw end, not shown). More rigid without torching and resistant to distortion which might result in hot turns or leads.
Good luck.
Last edited:
I got one too and have been having a blast with it all morning~rebuilt 2 Taifuns and 2 Protanks!
Thanks CIG!
Thanks CIG!
Cig, thank you for the deluxe cigamajigs bro. I like it. For shyts and giggles I affixed some 28 to it just to give it a spin and produced a perfect TMC in about 1.5 minutes. I didn't plan to use it, just wanted to try in in the short amount of time I had so I didn't care about the leg orientation or number of wraps.
That's my coil on the right. The other three you sent are damn impressive.
I am very appreciative of the gift and the craft of these simple yet effective tools.
I am going to shoot a vid in the very near future (hopefully next Friday) to demonstrate how this is even easier than the coil gizmo and I can REALLY tension the wire without bending the rod.
Ima gonna replace the screw in the 1/16 position with a Phillips that way I can use the same bit on my driver as my attys.
If I could think of any improvement It would be to start with a 1.5" block and mill it so the part where the screw goes is about 1/2" higher. that way the leg would have about 3/4" of straightness before any bend. Like this:
Thanks again Cig. Look forward to really using this bad boy
MVS has been sold out of the v3 airflow bases for a while, so I thought I would post an FYI that they have them back in stock now:
Kanger Airflow Control 3.0 - Large
Kanger Airflow Control 3.0 - Large
If I could think of any improvement It would be to start with a 1.5" block and mill it so the part where the screw goes is about 1/2" higher. that way the leg would have about 3/4" of straightness before any bend. Like this:
Thanks again Cig. Look forward to really using this bad boy
That's a great idea!!! Mine get a little crazy and outta wack with that bend on the leg. I think I'll go dig through some stuff and rig one of those up today!!
Sent from my GT-P3110 using Tapatalk
<shrug>
As a higher resistance is impossible (I'm reporting actual observations) in your qualified opinion cig what are we seeing?
I think that answer would be helpful and on point.
Good luck.
If the coil was firing Full micro Before vaping and you're experiencing res fluctuations while vaping it's happening at the grommet. The electrical point of contact of the wire is moving up or down within the grommet. Can be either the pos or ground or both.
Barring any hangers, with 30awg the res change can be as much as .435 ohms based on .312" (8mm) length of grommet.
So if your "initial" point of contact was low in grommet (down by the 510) you would see a higher than target res. Tighten on a battery, remove and reinstall or fiddle with it in any way can then compress or spin the pos pin and/or grommet. This action can rub and move the wire causing the point of contact to move within the grommet. If the point of contact moves up (lower res reading); if it moves down (higher res reading).
This is the reason I no longer use 32awg (grommet/pin won't hold the legs at a consistant electrical point of contact). Res would bounce all over the place. Up, down and sideways. Lol. Especially if the wire was annealed or dirty before winding or install.
Hope this helps
cig
Isn't all Kanthal annealed?? My 32ga spool is but luckily so far my res isn't bouncing anymore than it should under normal use.. But I am getting up to wash my hands at just about every step just in case hehe.. I actually found my drill bit set today and the 'regular' 1/16" bit fits in my hand drill so I've actually got a winder now!!!
Sent from my GT-P3110 using Tapatalk
Sent from my GT-P3110 using Tapatalk
Cig, thank you for the deluxe cigamajigs bro. I like it. For shyts and giggles I affixed some 28 to it just to give it a spin and produced a perfect TMC in about 1.5 minutes. I didn't plan to use it, just wanted to try in in the short amount of time I had so I didn't care about the leg orientation or number of wraps.
That's my coil on the right. The other three you sent are damn impressive.
I am very appreciative of the gift and the craft of these simple yet effective tools.
I am going to shoot a vid in the very near future (hopefully next Friday) to demonstrate how this is even easier than the coil gizmo and I can REALLY tension the wire without bending the rod.
Ima gonna replace the screw in the 1/16 position with a Phillips that way I can use the same bit on my driver as my attys.
If I could think of any improvement It would be to start with a 1.5" block and mill it so the part where the screw goes is about 1/2" higher. that way the leg would have about 3/4" of straightness before any bend. Like this:
Thanks again Cig. Look forward to really using this bad boy
Thanks Russ, Mac, Chanel. Appreciate the remarks and suggestions. All the local vape shops want to market the winder but it kinda goes against my motives for designing it for ease of DIY. So I just gave each of them one to show folks.
Russ, I did try one with the elevated screw tower like your pic but it interfered with bias winding, that is feeding the wire at an angle so that it partially overlaps and slides down the existing turns to form a super-microcoil (just made that up). One where the winds are compressed VERY firmly against one another due to high tension strain. Watch out though: every wind will be shorted together and hot leg on both ends on first fire. But man what an efficient fast firing coil! Works great for us unflavored nic base vapors but clogs right quick with dirty juices.
The screw can be substituted with any style #8 screw but the one that's in it will work with a flat head screwdriver, 1/4" wrench, 1/4" nut driver, 1/4" socket or any 1/4" hex bit driver. Seemed the most universal.
Thanks again,
cig
Mono, if some kanthal spools comes pre-annealed it's new to me. The annealing process is accomplished by heating the wire to redhot and is used by some microcoilers to take the springyness out of the wire so its easier to wind. Problem is during the annealing process alumina is forming on the wire ( high resistance) and although it works fine for drippers and rbas with screws to secure the wire (screws break thru alumina layer) it can be a game killer for PTs. The grommet compression is often not strong enough to overcome the resistive layer of oxides so you can end up with higher than normal res. That's why I don't recommend annealing before the build. When you pulse your coil it also anneals the wire and forms the oxide layer.
cigPs. looked up some posts on kanthal and appears it comes either annealed (even though it's not always annotated) or oxidized. Mac, does this sound right? I dunno.
Last edited:
Humm, I think I missed something. Where to get one of these or instructions to build one? Think I saw something awhile ago but can't seem to find it now. Feel free to PM me. Thanks!
Cig, thank you for the deluxe cigamajigs bro. I like it. For shyts and giggles I affixed some 28 to it just to give it a spin and produced a perfect TMC in about 1.5 minutes. I didn't plan to use it, just wanted to try in in the short amount of time I had so I didn't care about the leg orientation or number of wraps.
That's my coil on the right. The other three you sent are damn impressive.
I am very appreciative of the gift and the craft of these simple yet effective tools.
I am going to shoot a vid in the very near future (hopefully next Friday) to demonstrate how this is even easier than the coil gizmo and I can REALLY tension the wire without bending the rod.
Ima gonna replace the screw in the 1/16 position with a Phillips that way I can use the same bit on my driver as my attys.
If I could think of any improvement It would be to start with a 1.5" block and mill it so the part where the screw goes is about 1/2" higher. that way the leg would have about 3/4" of straightness before any bend. Like this:
Thanks again Cig. Look forward to really using this bad boy
Just completed (no pics yet) the winder blog. Includes fab and user instructions.
Have fun
cig
Have fun
cig
Oh my gosh Cid I love this thing. I just made 2 perfect coils for daughter and friend. The super easy part is that I turn four times for each wrap (line up your writing each time) and then do that 6 times and perfect 1.5 on a Taifun. LOVE IT
Good possible explanation for some instances of the coil being reinstalled after being set aside.
I've seen variations of as much as 1Ω or more for coils that have been static for a while and tested at wire spec.
You bring up some good points about conditions or slight changes in wire position that could change the actual spec wire res being read. I don't think the grommet connection point variations ever vary quite as much as above cig. I've never seen any cut traces in grommets quite that long. That's not to say it couldn't happen.
But again this singular explanation that were exploring does not account for what's being reported which is chip reads not consistent with what they were a minute ago. Coil cooled down after finally going full effect at spec wire res. Pick it up and fire it a minute later and it's .5Ω up. And this happens far more than it would appear that you are aware.
Subsequent firings incrementally result in reduced resistance indications possibly consistent, with as we both would deduce, a progression of further oxidation occurs accounting for the reduction in detected line length.
So I actually would be interested to hear your perspective on this. I believe the answer is rather simple, expansion/contraction. But it's just a theory so I haven't dwelt on it. What I was trying to explain to scratch was not to be concerned. It resolves rather quickly, as long as it's not to the low side as you quite correctly point out. I'd like readers here to feel confident that this phenomenon is not at all unusual, as it is and can be dealt with. Now if we, you and I could as easily resolve the ambiguity.
Good luck.
Last edited:
Thanks Chanel. Much appreciated. I posted the tool on this thread and others months ago with underwhelming response. Figured if put them in the hands of some of you I might see a different response. Guess it worked! Hope you'll show your vap'n friends so they can fab their own. Then my return on investment will be complete!
cig
Mono, if some kanthal spools comes pre-annealed it's new to me. The annealing process is accomplished by heating the wire to redhot and is used by some microcoilers to take the springyness out of the wire so its easier to wind. Problem is during the annealing process alumina is forming on the wire ( high resistance) and although it works fine for drippers and rbas with screws to secure the wire (screws break thru alumina layer) it can be a game killer for PTs. The grommet compression is often not strong enough to overcome the resistive layer of oxides so you can end up with higher than normal res. That's why I don't recommend annealing before the build. When you pulse your coil it also anneals the wire and forms the oxide layer.
Ps. looked up some posts on kanthal and appears it comes either annealed (even though it's not always annotated) or oxidized. Mac, does this sound right? I dunno.
Officially the position at TEMCO is that their wire is annealed. My direct supplies have been remarkably consistent though and I stopped checking wire lengths quite some time ago. However, as I posted just a bit earlier, TEMCO supplies tendered through eBay (by them, at discount) often reflect weaknesses (thickness variations) which have made it much more prone to breakage with simple hand tension. This suggests off-spec production whatever the cause or preparation.
Other sources and brands have not filled me with an abundance of joy.or confidence. And I was testing wire for some time.
My consideration is that any annealing or force applied to the wire potentially can weaken it or thin it impacting its resistance as you suggest or contaminating it's surface. All these just making the results of oxidizing it for our needs less predictable. So a few pennies more are well spent I believe to ensure good and predictable spec wire.
Surprised somebody hasn't undertaken the QC on this here at ECF. My Fluke and I involuntarily parted company some time ago.
Good luck.
I got mine on Amazon from Temco, and the label says Annealed on it. I don't think there was a choice. Mac I've got a meter for working on my amps and pedals, I can check it.. I just cut a foot off and check end to end right??
Sent from my GT-P3110 using Tapatalk
Sent from my GT-P3110 using Tapatalk
- Status
Similar threads
