Protank MicroCoil Discussion!!

[bover907]

Thanks for the replies! With the 31awg, I wound on a 5/64" drill bit. That wouldn't fit into the notch of the head, so to mount the coil, I carefully used a 1/16" bit.

I only had a 3' sample of the 31awg wire, which I ordered just to see if rebuilding was for me. After my initial success, I ordered a 50' spool of 30awg, since that's what most people recommended.

When the 30awg wire arrived, I went and bought a .07 drill bit, which is 1.778mm and fits perfectly to seat the coil. I wanted to wind on the same Ø that I would mount the coil with.

I think what happened is that with the smaller inner diameter of the coil, I ended up with a smaller amount of cotton, which induced the leaking. I tried just adding a cotton flavor wick, but that induced some dry hits. So, I took all the cotton out, stuffed the coil a little tighter, and I seem to have found the sweet spot now.

Sorry, My reports on resistances won't be too reliable right now, because I end up loosing count of the wraps all the time. I haven't been torching the coils since I read and applied your method for the t.m.c. I've been using my wife to hold the spool for me, to keep constant tension on the coil. I couldn't really maintain tension with your method, due to arthritis.

Like I said, I think I found the sweet spot again, so after a few more, I'll report back.

 

[MacTechVpr]

Thanks for the replies! With the 31awg, I wound on a 5/64" drill bit. That wouldn't fit into the notch of the head, so to mount the coil, I carefully used a 1/16" bit.

I only had a 3' sample of the 31awg wire, which I ordered just to see if rebuilding was for me. After my initial success, I ordered a 50' spool of 30awg, since that's what most people recommended.

When the 30awg wire arrived, I went and bought a .07 drill bit, which is 1.778mm and fits perfectly to seat the coil. I wanted to wind on the same Ø that I would mount the coil with.

I think what happened is that with the smaller inner diameter of the coil, I ended up with a smaller amount of cotton, which induced the leaking. I tried just adding a cotton flavor wick, but that induced some dry hits. So, I took all the cotton out, stuffed the coil a little tighter, and I seem to have found the sweet spot now.

Sorry, My reports on resistances won't be too reliable right now, because I end up loosing count of the wraps all the time. I haven't been torching the coils since I read and applied your method for the t.m.c. I've been using my wife to hold the spool for me, to keep constant tension on the coil. I couldn't really maintain tension with your method, due to arthritis.

Like I said, I think I found the sweet spot again, so after a few more, I'll report back.

Thanks for the update report because I'm going through similar problems with a 30 new head/coil variant. It's given me headaches because of grommet/hanger repeated intrusions messing up resistance. Lot of testing and you need to be sure you've got all the short issues dead-to-nuts or you really can't tell how the wick is producing. That said, in general having accomplished this over dozens of winds with the help of a friend (clearing short possibilities) we established that the wick/coil/head was too efficient…the setup needed at least a half watt more power minimum or flooding would subsequently ensue. What a kick! Right? Threreafter, flawless.

So don't forget power applied. It must be consistent for testing. And generally flooding implies either a loss of (or requirement for) power.

Gotta say I do like that 30/.07 wind on the PT; but must admit I prefer the 5/64 for more wick.

Good luck hover. Looking forward to more reports of good vapes.

 

[bover907]

I gotta say, I did like using the 5/64 for a wrap, but the problem is that size drill bit doesn't fit low enough in the notch to seat the coil where it should be. Using a 1/16" bit to seat, I had to be really careful not to deform the terminations of the coil. Yes, the 5/64"id coil would fit onto the .07 screwdriver better, but still not a perfect fit.

It does seem that although it appeared I was having to borderline overstuff the wick (or so I thought, it's wicking VG juice just fine with no dry hits.

I forgot to tell you about the equipment I am using as per your last post. I'm using the EVOD tank and also the RGM2 Glass tank on the Kanger EVOD batteries. They're just a non variable supposedly regulated at 3.7v. When I got the stock 2.5Ω coils, they actually rated out at about 2.8 to 2.9Ω. The new coils I made have been around 2.3 to 2.5Ω. When I get better and keep getting more consistent results from every coil, I want to get down to about 2.0 to 2.2Ω I'm pretty sure I wouldn't have to go any lower than that, as I'm getting really good vapor from the 2.3ohm coils. I haven't graduated to any kind of twist or spinner battery as I just want to get it simple. I can't really have anything bigger than an ego style setup at work (prison guard) as it is. So, if I were going to get into any kind of APV, with all the VV and VW and bells and whistles, that'd be limited to home.

 

[bover907]

Deleted.....

 

[Taowulf]

I can't really have anything bigger than an ego style setup at work (prison guard) as it is. So, if I were going to get into any kind of APV, with all the VV and VW and bells and whistles, that'd be limited to home.

The Innokin VV Ver 3.0 has VV and VW and it hardly bigger than an 1100 or 1300mah eGo. Battery life is shorter than I would like, but it works well. You can find them for under $30.

 

[kachuge]

I build a vertical microcoil on my protank.
7 wraps of 28awg on a 2mm (5/64) drilbit, and some coton around it.
That 1.4ohms that I vape at 9/10 watts.

View attachment 268560

View attachment 268561

holy crap, you're a surgeon AND a vapor.......

nice coil man..... i'd love to try it, but I have enough trouble with the horizontal ones......

never thought it could be done...... hats off to you!

g

 

[MacTechVpr]

I gotta say, I did like using the 5/64 for a wrap, but the problem is that size drill bit doesn't fit low enough in the notch to seat the coil where it should be. Using a 1/16" bit to seat, I had to be really careful not to deform the terminations of the coil. Yes, the 5/64"id coil would fit onto the .07 screwdriver better, but still not a perfect fit.

It does seem that although it appeared I was having to borderline overstuff the wick (or so I thought, it's wicking VG juice just fine with no dry hits.

I forgot to tell you about the equipment I am using as per your last post. I'm using the EVOD tank and also the RGM2 Glass tank on the Kanger EVOD batteries. They're just a non variable supposedly regulated at 3.7v. When I got the stock 2.5Ω coils, they actually rated out at about 2.8 to 2.9Ω. The new coils I made have been around 2.3 to 2.5Ω. When I get better and keep getting more consistent results from every coil, I want to get down to about 2.0 to 2.2Ω I'm pretty sure I wouldn't have to go any lower than that, as I'm getting really good vapor from the 2.3ohm coils. I haven't graduated to any kind of twist or spinner battery as I just want to get it simple. I can't really have anything bigger than an ego style setup at work (prison guard) as it is. So, if I were going to get into any kind of APV, with all the VV and VW and bells and whistles, that'd be limited to home.

Hey hover, thanks for telling us that. I have to keep reminding myself there are users out there on mech's and non-variable power. But since temperature is key you've got to expect variability with voltage drop. And with something as persnickety as a tank with decreasing vacuum and juice viscosity flooding is going to definitely be an issue as the tank drains. You're gonna get real good wicking. That's when it's fun to up the power and open up the airflow to keep the vape as good as the top of the fill. On Sigelei's, VAMO, eVic I'm starting out at about 8W to finish up a PT at 9 or 9.5W. You don't seem to experience such a great need for power adjustment with clearo's like the EVOD or T3S as the KPT. And the latter is just rock solid if unfortunate for being so extraordinarily plain. The couple of T3S's I have are the do-or-die clearo's I hold on to. And their favorite place to live is on a kicked Magneto. That's where they shine.

I keep mentioning one of my fav's still...despite all the nice mods I've been fortunate to get..is the magneto with a 12W kick. It's about the most dependable back pocket carries I have. A couple of extra 350's in a case, a PT for a topper, set that baby a few clicks off full-on and I'm good to go near 10W. Pull the PT and drop in the back-up PT Mini or EVOD directly on the eGo connector. Better still. Switch to the flat-top top cap, drop in a 18490AW and I've got a good ride for a twisted pair 30AWG 9-turn dual at slightly sub-Ω. So with a little bit of accessorizing you get a lot of travel.

Lot's of ways to go bover but it's hard to beat practical.

Good luck.

 

[MacTechVpr]

Happy Easter all.

Good luck.

 

[Taowulf]

holy crap, you're a surgeon AND a vapor.......

nice coil man..... i'd love to try it, but I have enough trouble with the horizontal ones......

never thought it could be done...... hats off to you!

g

I don't know if I would trust a surgeon with dirty fingernails.

Seriously though, i hope he puts up more pics, I was trying this yesterday and was able to build the coil, but the vapor production and flavor just wasn't there for me... Maybe too much cotton, will have to try it again. First attempt was way to low resistance (I think I accidentally unwound a wrap) and would fluctuate from 1.5Ω down to 1.1Ω. Second try came out about 1.8Ω but that is the one where the flavor seemed wrong.

 

[MacTechVpr]

I don't know if I would trust a surgeon with dirty fingernails.

Seriously though, i hope he puts up more pics, I was trying this yesterday and was able to build the coil, but the vapor production and flavor just wasn't there for me... Maybe too much cotton, will have to try it again. First attempt was way to low resistance (I think I accidentally unwound a wrap) and would fluctuate from 1.5Ω down to 1.1Ω. Second try came out about 1.8Ω but that is the one where the flavor seemed wrong.

We love those touchy subjects, don't we.

Say Tao, have you tried a tension wind yet? Seems you might be a flavor guy. Let us try'n hook you up guy. Let us know how you're doin' with that.

Take care, and

Good luck.

 

[Taowulf]

We love those touchy subjects, don't we.

Say Tao, have you tried a tension wind yet? Seems you might be a flavor guy. Let us try'n hook you up guy. Let us know how you're doin' with that.

Take care, and

Good luck.

Not a tension build as I have seen discussed here. What I have to work with turned out to not lend itself to exactly the same technique. But I do pull a bit on the coil as I wrap it, and I am getting progressively tighter coils with less gap. It's a work in progress. I have set aside several of my early efforts to redo probably later tonight. I like a warm vape, so I've been shooting for 1.6-1.8Ω and am hitting it pretty consistently. I will try the chimney again, I think my problem before was where I had the top lead angled down. I didn't have it in a spot that let me wick behind it well. So I will put it on the slot side and see if that works better.

 

[MacTechVpr]

Not a tension build as I have seen discussed here. What I have to work with turned out to not lend itself to exactly the same technique. But I do pull a bit on the coil as I wrap it, and I am getting progressively tighter coils with less gap. It's a work in progress. I have set aside several of my early efforts to redo probably later tonight. I like a warm vape, so I've been shooting for 1.6-1.8Ω and am hitting it pretty consistently. I will try the chimney again, I think my problem before was where I had the top lead angled down. I didn't have it in a spot that let me wick behind it well. So I will put it on the slot side and see if that works better.

You would like a tension wind then at around 1.6Ω. Still warm but a lot denser. When you're ready, tap us on the shoulder.

Good luck.

 

[LazyBulldogge]

Well that was a fun evening and morning. No matter how I rebuilt my coils, I got ye olde burning rubber taste when using them Even had to dump of of a tank (luckily it was just cheap Liqua).
Had exactly 4 silicone grommets at home, so rebuilt (AGAIN) using those, and now everything seems to be alright again. No idea why or how that all of sudden was an issue though, last batch of micro coils with rubber grommets had 0 issues

Edit: Oh yeah, a few questions for Mac (and the rest of you who have mastered the micro coil), as I'm not done messing around yet.
1) I read about the "leg hangers" and I'm a bit confused, as to where I'm supposed to mount the legs at the bottom of the coil head (might just be a language barrier). It says something in the lines of "in exit rotation of the wire" - would that be on the same or the opposite side of where the leg goes down from the coil?
2) I know the coil needs to glow from the centre and out, but are the two end turns (one in each end, duh), supposed to glow as well, or are they such a big part of the legs, so that they're supposed to stay "cold"?

 

[MacTechVpr]

Well that was a fun evening and morning. No matter how I rebuilt my coils, I got ye olde burning rubber taste when using them Even had to dump of of a tank (luckily it was just cheap Liqua).
Had exactly 4 silicone grommets at home, so rebuilt (AGAIN) using those, and now everything seems to be alright again. No idea why or how that all of sudden was an issue though, last batch of micro coils with rubber grommets had 0 issues

Edit: Oh yeah, a few questions for Mac (and the rest of you who have mastered the micro coil), as I'm not done messing around yet.
1) I read about the "leg hangers" and I'm a bit confused, as to where I'm supposed to mount the legs at the bottom of the coil head (might just be a language barrier). It says something in the lines of "in exit rotation of the wire" - would that be on the same or the opposite side of where the leg goes down from the coil?
2) I know the coil needs to glow from the centre and out, but are the two end turns (one in each end, duh), supposed to glow as well, or are they such a big part of the legs, so that they're supposed to stay "cold"?

Good evening LB. Kinda tired but I'll give it a go here.

First leg hangers are protruding tips of either the pos or neg leads at the 510 connector (left after snipping or spinning off). They can brush or contact the threading of the 510 base if they stick out too much.

Often hangers are not clearly visible without magnification or don't stick out at all until you screw down your tank. A topic of recent concern (i.e. disgust) is the propensity of silicone and silicone composition grommets to collapse as they often thus force out the tips of the leads that were intended to be retained. So a double-whammy. The grommet presents you with a nice little short and bulges out into the airstream surrounding the 510 connector blocking airflow to the coil. Wonderful stuff…so you need to check for these when you finish your build and before you install the tank. Also when you do screw down if you observe a change of resistance. Then, anytime you see a change or as you do refills. You should be checking the compression of the grommet as you blow your wick out. This will keep things tidy, dry and limit the hanger short. Thank the makers for progress.

Now once you've found the culprit, the hanger. Trim it back. And don't be afraid to slightly pull out the grommet and pin (together) to restore the grommet's normal shape. Not all the way out mind you but the position that the grommet should be at termination. This will help restore the grommet's normal compression grip on the wire and some of the lead tightness. It will also relieve the loss of airflow that may have resulted from the grommet's bulging when flattened by installation.

So now on to your point 2 and termination, yes, the legs have to be opposite and taught. As much a direct line as possible from the coil to the grommet (but not overly tight, just finger tight).

Imagine the coil not with the leads pointing straight down; rather, flat on a table and opposed. One lead would be pointing in one direction and the other lead in the opposite direction. Now…drop the leads down directly from that position to the grommet…and pointing away from each other. The angle should be perpendicular or at 90 degrees to the axis of the coil (looking from above). If you were to x-ray the cup looking down the center of the coil, the legs would look like an inverted "V" going from the coil to the grommet.

You won't ge this on the video..but here's the "why". The leads may skew, twist around, rotate and relocate. When? When you install the tank. What a trip, right? When that happens if the legs aren't opposing and tight there's a good chance they could cross. BAM! You've got a short. Or…the leads could bend but still be fine for a tank fill and, yes!, bend back on your next fill just relaxed enough to contact the assembly wall. Sweet, right? No, BAM!! Another short.

This is exactly what happens with loose hand winds and why the Protank is constantly blamed (along with other clearo's) for flooding as a design fault. The tanks have design limits but the fault is user error — lack of awareness and anticipation. What's the error, specifically? Not building a coil suitable to the design and it's limitations. A lack of understanding of a design's fundamental requirements. Simply, what it needs to work right.

That's what we're here trying to define and document — why a tight symmetrical build is essential. It's not fiction and demonstrably not frivolous or "what works for you". That's so many of us frustrated clutching at straws for lack of answers. It is what it is. It's what you need to do to get a good vape. But sorry gang, here I am again ranting a bit.

Good luck LB. Get the simple micro down and you'll be able to build on anything. Hope this helps somewhat.

 

[f1vefour]

I haven't tried this but it seems if you were to take a bit of sandpaper and rough up the termination pin before putting it in the grommet it would be tremendously more resistant against slippage and ohm skewing.

Roughing up the inside of the coil cup would help also, couple that with the pin...problem solved (theoretically).

 

[bover907]

What works better for you all, clipping or the twist method for trimming the wire ends? I've been clipping so far, and now that I read your explanation of hangers, I suspect I scrapped like two coils earlier in the week that probably just needed the hangers eliminated. Oh well, live and learn, I guess. Thanks for the detailed response to LB's questions, as I've learned from it also.

Somewhat unrelated question...
I've read that some boil cotton due to it being bleached with hydrogen peroxide. My thought is, doesn't peroxide evaporate completely away like water? Water is H20, and Hydrogen Peroxide is H2O2, or just basically a type of "heavy water" so to speak. So, if it does in fact evaporate cleanly, wouldn't that make it unnecessary to boil? My thinking is people are boiling off something that isn't there. Now if there is some other thing that needs to be boiled off, please let me know. I boiled my first batch of cotton, which I'm still using, but is almost gone. It wasn't organic cotton, but just 100% pure cotton balls. I'd be interested to hear others thoughts on this.

 

[bover907]

One other question, is there a thread or video that explains the saran wrap method of threading braided wick? I've heard it mentioned but couldn't find a detailed explanation of the process. I'd be interested to try it out on the sample of ekowool I bought.

 

[kachuge]

Built me some coils for the first time last week, and they are a marked improvement over the stock. I do have a small problem with a leak, more like an ooze, usually just wets the battery terminal top. I use the cotton yarn as the wick, all 4 strands threaded through the coil, nothing on top. I've had no dry hits/burning, wicking very good. Tell me, am I over- or under-wicked (ie - do I need to toss a strand or two on top), or is there maybe some assembly thing going on?

I use 3 inside the coil, and 1 on top..........
works pretty good,
g

 

[Taowulf]

One other question, is there a thread or video that explains the saran wrap method of threading braided wick? I've heard it mentioned but couldn't find a detailed explanation of the process. I'd be interested to try it out on the sample of ekowool I bought.

You can also use a small bent piece of Kanthal to hook the wick and pull it through the coil. That is what I do with cotton (and yes, I did it with ekowool too) to get it through the coil.

 

[f1vefour]

I don't boil cotton.

I cut the wire, when you try to break it you almost always botch the coil alignment.

A bit of tape, a piece of kanthal or take a piece of cellophane (or paper or whatever) and wrap the wick in it compressing it to a diameter small enough to fit through.