Protank MicroCoil Discussion!!

[MacTechVpr]

They're actually working really well for me yeah, just dry-burned and put new cotton in all 4 today. I think my GVC coil is on its last legs though, every now and then, it won't wick, no matter the amount of cotton. Oh well, nothing lasts forever.

Would be damn nice if I could get my kayfun Lite Plus to work properly though - coil fused together perfectly on all three attempts, but I keep getting some metallic flavor regardless. So it's being cleaned for the second time now, fingers crossed it'll sort it out.

Thanks for the comeback LB. Thought everybody left town. LOL

I wash my gear in foam soap from Bath and Body works, mostly fruity kitchen flavors. Save the deep and woody for bathrooms. The stuff's amazing cleans most anything. Kind of shocking how effective compared to other commercial cleaners. Anyway, it has a good percent alcohol and it works great on vape gear not leaving a residue or fragrance i can detect after cleaning. But I follow with a soak in distilled or heavily filtered water that's been boiled in the micro. Let that cool down and drop it in an ultrasonic cleaner for a few cycles. Gear I put through this, including glass tanks and mod tubes, look new when done. I also put my significant accumulation of Protank and other heads through this to get to all the nooks and crannies. Most definitely new gear get the thorough wash, boiled water and ultrasonic. Not a daily ritual, but a couple'a times a week.

I haven't tackled my Kay's yet. Kinda jealous. Common complaint on residual lubricants. Hope that's all for ya.

Good luck.

 

[brookj1986]

Love my Kayfun 3.1. Using the principles I've learned here. Also, finally getting very good tmc. Though I had a wonky one yesterday that I wrapped on a 0# screw driver (wanted space for tons of wick in my rda). One of the wraps in the middle actually got tighter than all the rest. Still will test it for S&G.

Also got some nice tmc in the PT2. Barely had to do any additional adjustment while pulsing. It was a good day

Sent from my Galaxy Note 3 via Tapatalk.

 

[LazyBulldogge]

Hope I make you proud, Sensei

(Had to give it a few pinches though, as I had messed up the legs a bit while mounting it)

I think I finally got the metallic flavor beat, by a triple wash in soapy water and then a good few hours in 99% IPA for all the stainless parts.
In addition to that, I found a link where another guy was talking about GVC in the KFL+ and that he had to run it at really low voltage, to keep the flavor as it's supposed to be. Apparently the KFL+ not only kicks you in the face with nicotine, it also brings out the flavor at lower voltages on some liquids.
Still a different taste than in the Protank, but not a nasty one, like I got on the first few attempts, so now I think it's just a matter of adjusting airflow and breaking in the coil a bit

Sorry for the sorta off-topic, just happy that it seems to be working properly now

 

[MacTechVpr]

Hope I make you proud, Sensei

Puuurrrdy! Ya make us all proud here LB.

(Had to give it a few pinches though, as I had messed up the legs a bit while mounting it)
I think I finally got the metallic flavor beat, by a triple wash in soapy water and then a good few hours in 99% IPA for all the stainless parts.
In addition to that, I found a link where another guy was talking about GVC in the KFL+ and that he had to run it at really low voltage, to keep the flavor as it's supposed to be. Apparently the KFL+ not only kicks you in the face with nicotine, it also brings out the flavor at lower voltages on some liquids.


Still a different taste than in the Protank, but not a nasty one, like I got on the first few attempts, so now I think it's just a matter of adjusting airflow and breaking in the coil a bit

Enjoy that cool vape. Tension will definitely get you there for those dessert flavors.

Don't forget to give us the dirt on that build. I'm targeting a range of about 1.2-2.3Ω for my first build. I'm liking it a bit warmer these days. But reserving 1.4 for Tribeca which I 've always liked cool in the AGR carto tanks. It'll be interesting. Reserve the Aqua's for the warmer stuff. I've built a number of them, none for myself.

Sorry for the sorta off-topic, just happy that it seems to be working properly now

No JB, not off topic on this thread. I think it's more about a transition to a true vaping lifestyle than most around. And congrats partner, that is one smart build on that Kay, gotta say. I slapped the nano kit on one of mine last night…hopin' I can get to it one of these days! LOL But alas, there's one more Protank improvement to try. And I think I still got a few more in me.

You take care LB, and good luck.

 

[LazyBulldogge]

If by dirt you mean specs, here they are: 1.8 mm inner diameter, 10 wraps of 30 AWG Kanthal A-1, clocking in at 2.0 Ohms.
With Grant's Vanilla Custard, I'm getting the best flavor so far, all the way down at 3.6 Volts (about 6.5 Watts). Kind of funny, but if I crank it up to 4.2 Volts, which is what I vape GVC at in my Protank with a 2 Ohm microcoil, 1.8 mm i.d., the taste is really unpleasant.
I guess the KFL+ just delivers the goodness at low power, oh well.
Will try it with the cheap Liqua Vanilla as well, and finally Boba's Bounty too, to see how they fare.

Next step, for both Protank and KFL+, will be reducing the i.d. to 1.6 mm (pretty close to 1/16"), as that's the diameter of the rod on the coiling gizmo I just got in the mail today - should make for great tension coils, with no messing up my hands with a screwdriver

 

[sedge]

A tension coiling machine I built inspired by Bill's Magic Vapor here on ECF http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/blogs/bill-s-magic-vapor/5819-bmv-coiler-2-o.html

It gives both direct and lateral tension. Very fast amd easy to roll perfect coils. I can knock out almost 10 in 10 minutes. I have 3 different sized mandrels 1.6mm, 1.8mm and 2.0. I also have 4 reel spools for quick change of different guages, currently 26, 28, 30 & 32.

What is nice is wrapping like 12 wraps then I grab a leg and pull off a few wraps to further increase tension and uniformity.

 

[MacTechVpr]

A tension coiling machine I built inspired by Bill's Magic Vapor here on ECF http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/blogs/bill-s-magic-vapor/5819-bmv-coiler-2-o.html

It gives both direct and lateral tension. Very fast amd easy to roll perfect coils. I can knock out almost 10 in 10 minutes. I have 3 different sized mandrels 1.6mm, 1.8mm and 2.0. I also have 4 reel spools for quick change of different guages, currently 26, 28, 30 & 32.

What is nice is wrapping like 12 wraps then I grab a leg and pull off a few wraps to further increase tension and uniformity.

Thanks for that excellent demonstration. When I first started on Metalhed's cotton Protank thread I looked forward to the day that folks would be trying every which way to get tension. Can't tell you how pleased I am that it's contributing to your great vape.

I guess one of these days I'm going to have to build one of those since I'm building with twisted and parallel more often than not. Meantime, I promised myself I'd never become a fly fisherman with this but I guess I kinda have. And I rather enjoy the challenges of hand winding even though it's really quite hard for me most days. However, I can't tell you how much pleasure I get from the experience, as Bill found, the sheer satisfaction of just getting it right. Those days are some of my best vapes.

Good luck sedge. Looks like you got yourself a good one.

 

[brookj1986]

Thanks for that excellent demonstration. When I first started on Metalhed's cotton Protank thread I looked forward to the day that folks would be trying every which way to get tension. Can't tell you how pleased I am that it's contributing to your great vape.

I guess one of these days I'm going to have to build one of those since I'm building with twisted and parallel more often than not. Meantime, I promised myself I'd never become a fly fisherman with this but I guess I kinda have. And I rather enjoy the challenges of hand winding even though it's really quite hard for me most days. However, I can't tell you how much pleasure I get from the experience, as Bill found, the sheer satisfaction of just getting it right. Those days are some of my best vapes.

Good luck sedge. Looks like you got yourself a good one.

I can't see myself building one of those. I enjoy the PIN vise method and have had some fantastic results, though I do tend to lose count. I do tend to get between 1.6-2.2 depending on the wraps. I've had good results in general, in great part do to this and the other thread focusing on pt rebuilds.

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[sedge]

Speaking of fly fishing, back when I heated and pinched my micro coils I used hackle pliers because the jaws were a perfect size and they apply even side pressure to the entire coil. Tweezers and needle nose always seem to apply more pressure on the inside of their jaws skewing the coil a bit. I still use hackles when I sometimes mess up a coil during installation.

http://www.flyshack.com/DisplayCategory.aspx?CatID=606

My newest favorite toy is an angled micro flush cutters. They will cut a coil leg clean and flush even in messy quad coil builds in tight spaces.

http://xuron.com/index.php/main/consumer_products/3/27

 

[sedge]

Oh. And Metalhed and Mac and to all in this thread and the other Protank thread, I've lurked for quite awhile and have really enjoyed it and have learned alot. Even though I don't have a PT, I've used much from this thread in my other applications.

 

[MacTechVpr]

Oh. And Metalhed and Mac and to all in this thread and the other Protank thread, I've lurked for quite awhile and have really enjoyed it and have learned alot. Even though I don't have a PT, I've used much from this thread in my other applications.

Hackle pliers, goodness. Been years. Facepalm again. Thanks for those and for stopping in to share your thoughts. So many newcomers sift through such threads like this and the input from accomplished builders is well appreciated. Good that we don't forget that. Being there.

The two most indispensable tools I've acquired lately are very fine point and ceramic tweezers. I've been moving for some time towards higher wire resistance, finer wire, parallels and more twisted pair winds. A fine touch is utterly necessary to get these right. Not to skewer or over pulse them into spiraling loops of spaghetti. And inevitably the conclusion is precision yields to even tighter more delicate control and coils…with less tension applied or necessary (to avert skewing). This, at least on clearo's with their abundance of grommet torquing issues, helps a great deal. The precision is in the wind itself. That's what counts most. The rest is rote practice. The coil is the art.

No doubt some of these well adaptable approaches will be coming home to roost in Protank's in lieu of factory dual-coil designs as frankly far more efficient. But must return soon to more recent attempts to incorporate 31 AWG wicking tests into tables (grommet dysfunction intervened). And that will be an interesting and rewarding challenge again. So meantime...

Good luck all.

 

[MacTechVpr]

I can't see myself building one of those. I enjoy the PIN vise method and have had some fantastic results, though I do tend to lose count. I do tend to get between 1.6-2.2 depending on the wraps. I've had good results in general, in great part do to this and the other thread focusing on pt rebuilds.

Sent from my Galaxy Note 3 via Tapatalk.

Thanks for the ack and your contribution brook.

Just like it's hard to get the density right for cotton in a clearo other facets of winding alternatives present difficulties. I'm twisting 32 AWG for TP. Too tight and I tend to break them with hand tension. Funny, even more often than straight 32g. Lower gauges present their own kinds of control problems. Like maybe too much tension required for 28G or even 30g for some folks. Some of these things can only be addressed with the precision of some external appliance or apparatus. Specially for fumble-thumbs like me. It's like that. So I'm planning ahead for that opportunity. Thank's Bill for the imagination.

For the rest of y'all.

Good luck.

 

[brookj1986]

Thanks for the ack and your contribution brook.

Just like it's hard to get the density right for cotton in a clearo. Other facets of winding alternatives present difficulties. I'm twisting 32 AWG for TP. Too tight and I tend to break them with hand tension. Funny, even more often than straight 32g. Lower gauges present their own kinds of control problems. Like maybe too much tension required for 28G or even 30g for some folks. Some of these things can only be addressed with the precision of some external appliance or apparatus. Specially for fumble-thumbs like me. It's like that. So I'm planning ahead for that opportunity. Thank's Bill for the imagination.

For the rest of y'all.

Good luck.

I've played around with twisted 32 gauge. It's nice, but has a lot of spring to deal with. I think I'm gonna do a twisted 28 gauge tension macro (yes, macro) coil for my next kayfun build. See how that turns out. If that doesn't, then twisted 28 gauge micro in the kayfun. Just for S&G.

Regardless, the techniques I've worked on for the pt have worked great for other builds. Still have more playing to do, but my go to is 29 gauge on 1.8 mm drill bit in the pt.

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[j5m0K5ki]

+1 on 29 gauge is good. That's what I use with a 1/16th drill bit. 7 wraps hits at about 1.3 to 1.4 oms. Puffin on a K101 mod.

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[MacTechVpr]

http://"http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/tips-tricks/463771-protank-cotton-rebuild-way-i-do-26.html#post12477202

+1 on 29 gauge is good. That's what I use with a 1/16th drill bit. 7 wraps hits at about 1.3 to 1.4 oms. Puffin on a K101 mod.

Sent from my C6916 using Tapatalk

I've played around with twisted 32 gauge. It's nice, but has a lot of spring to deal with. I think I'm gonna do a twisted 28 gauge tension macro (yes, macro) coil for my next kayfun build. See how that turns out. If that doesn't, then twisted 28 gauge micro in the kayfun. Just for S&G.

Regardless, the techniques I've worked on for the pt have worked great for other builds. Still have more playing to do, but my go to is 29 gauge on 1.8 mm drill bit in the pt.

Sent from my Galaxy Note 3 via Tapatalk.

29AWG, 9/8 .07" 1.75mm i.d., t.m.c. = 1.72Ω √
29AWG, 8/7 1.58mm i.d., t.m.c. = 1.40Ω √

That would be about right gentlemen. Right around my recorded lows posted here on the resistance tables (relatively for a 7-turn, j5). AWG 29 is very versatile and one of these days I'll try twisting it but not really much interested in building below .7Ω. You can get to .5Ω easily tensioning with 6-turns of 29g-parallel and not go through the trouble of pullin' out the drill.

And brook that 9-wind on 29 and 30AWG (at ~2.0Ω) are two of the most productive zones for the Protank. Really sweet. With the latter being my favorite all around (it's a tad lower with a tension wind over a standard m.c.).

Speaking of interesting j5. Here's a pic of 29g threaded with 2mm high temp silica rope into 1/16" using the cellophane wrap method introduced here...Protank Cotton Rebuild, the way I do it: Post #259; How to thread ANYTHING! More power to ya…

Not a bad vape but nowhere near as productive and flavorful as Nextel XC-132 into the same wind. You can try it but you'll find it a bit muted and easy to vape dry if you chain with power. Still it's nice to be able to do.

Best of luck in your adventures fella's.

 

[steven445]

Could you explain in detail how to do a tension wrap?
I don't quite understand lol.

 

[Garemlin]

Could you explain in detail how to do a tension wrap?
I don't quite understand lol.

I actually understand it but can't get it.

Tap'd from my LG G2

 

[LazyBulldogge]

The vids in MacTechVpr's post here actually displays it really well: http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...-contact-micro-coil-rebuilding-tutorials.html
In short terms, it's about keeping tension on the wire, as you wrap the coil, with and around a screwdriver for example. It's not that hard to do that part, what can be a pain, is not messing up the coil legs as you fit the insulator in the Protank coil head, at least that's where I've messed up a good bit of coils.
If you can't get them to fuse together by pulsing the battery a few times and pinching the coil, you can also torch the coil before you install it in the head, that usually makes it a lot easier to get that beautiful glow from the center of the coil and out, that you want from a microcoil.

It can be a bit rough on your hands, keeping the tension and all, so I recommend one of these Coiling Gizmos:

(Sorry about the poor focus on the coil in the picture)

 

[Wolfee]

I read this in another forum. Use coil making tool from Hobby Lobby. I bought one and it does work great. Consistent tight coil and the second smallest fits perfect in kanger slot.
Coiling Gizmo Deluxe Econo Winder
sku# 257741
Brand: Artistic Wire
Price was $11.99 and they have a coupon for discount.

 

[Wolfee]

Forgot to mention, just add machine screw, washers and wing nut to fasten wire to winding handle.