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Something that would help me tremendously is some pics of the coil before installation.
Maybe we can ask our coils to take a selfy to show off her legs!
Yeah well, we'll have to ask if they're so inclined. Meantime, a candid I took…
It shows the orientation of the neg termination sitting pretty well at the perpendicular (at the upper right of the cup). The forensics suggest that the lead wire points off to the right as the lead wasn't set precisely there but slightly adjusted into the position after the set. And a slight pull along the grommet is all that required and then a little tension downward to ensure the end turn is taught. Similarly then for the positive.
That's really it. Just ensure both leads are set to the perpendicular to avert skew at the axis. Then tension lightly (and balance the tension) to minimize the loose turn and lateral motion of the coil along the axis. A few pokes, as you say, as you do this and you're rockin'.
We'll save the raw coil pics for late night, cig.
Good luck.
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After counting endless numbers of leads I can attest that the nominal wire length of Protank leads is 7mm/n, 9.25mm/p. The latter varies quite a bit as typically I measured the lead to the end of cut. However, the resistance value is merely to the first point of termination which is in reality the first good contact with the hosing or pin respectively. This is problematical as the exact wire length cannot be directly measured but merely calculated for the travel length from the end of wire to first point of contact for each lead.
Further complicating this is the fact that the grommet set is grossly imprecise so that wire length back to termination may vary quite a bit for each set and only approximated in general terms.
For these reasons I chose to post charts of validated actual raw coil resistance reads as a guideline on this thread. It's just not that simple to measure and compute Protank wire length in each case.
Please also consider that typical carto-meter results may commonly vary +/-.02Ω (specs vary) against known fixed loads. I've recorded greater if somewhat infrequently.
Accordingly maz as you may have picked up my 16mm as 1.6mm and regardless your wire length calculation may be significantly understated for the above reasons. Haven't followed your recent posts but worth a look.
In my own builds using prior res results as a guide, I become suspicious of builds that fall below .05Ω of the published target. As noted per cigatron I believe recently, first be sure of the published resistance of your wire. Measure some of your own completed legs on disassembly. Derive a best observed calculation for the termination point. Set your res target accordingly.
I'm far more concerned on the low side (both deviation and variation) as I often transfer tanks to unregulated mech's. If I'm shooting for 2.0Ω and I end up with a beautiful center fire at 2.1Ω with the effect the first or second pop, hey I'm happy as a pig in But hey smell your rig after pulsing. I'm using LV's hard rubber grommets for tight lead stability. If you smell the slightest bit of rubber then ditch the build. I'tll take you a few minutes to make another. Ain't worth a tank of juice. Likewise if your res falls significantly below a reasonable expectation. For me that's >.5Ω and I'm scratchin' my head if I can't find the hanger. LOL
Good luck all.
That was a typo Mac, I did put in 16 mm for leg length in Steam Engine, not 1.6 ... either way I am not too cocnerned ! I will post my results when I attempt to duplicate the build
Sent from my SGH-T999 using Tapatalk
That's really a perfect wind result. I like that 5 O'clock 7 orientation 'cause it's about the maximum amount of contact you can maintain even if you send the lead to the opposite side of the grommet. In other words, you create the coil in the state it's going to be installed. No disruption. So as I dewind the last turn, I tweeze it out to end up about where you did. If you miss and end up 9-9, no biggie. It will end up there when you tension the leads.
If you pinch together the resulting wire ends with your fingertips you can send them easily via the bottom of the slot (shortest distance to the cup base) and there will likely not be any end turn change in adhesion. The legs will just spring back.
The leads here end up pointing to their respective best termination location. Kinda what I've been talking about that the build will point the way, euphemistically and in reality.
Thanks for that graphic demonstration cig.
Good luck.
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That's really a perfect wind result. I like that 5 O'clock 7 orientation 'cause it's about the maximum amount of contact you can maintain even if you send the lead to the opposite side of the grommet. In other words, you create the coil in the state it's going to be installed. No disruption. So as I dewind the last turn, I tweeze it out to end up about where you did. If you miss and end up 9-9, no biggie. It will end up there when you tension the leads.
If you pinch together the resulting wire ends with your fingertips you can send them easily via the bottom of the slot (shortest distance to the cup base) and there will likely not be any end turn change in adhesion. The legs will just spring back.
The leads here end up pointing to their respective best termination location. Kinda what I've been talking about that the build will point the way, euphemistically and in reality.
Thanks for that graphic demonstration cig.
Good luck.
Thanks Mac, I've been trying hard all along to follow the logic but the pic you posted really brought it home.
In order to refrain from adulterating the coil as much as possible I have been inserting it through the bottom of the 510 connector then reinserting the mandrel for assembly. Might not work for coils with alot more winds though.
My intent is , as you said and as your pics show, to terminate at the grommet opposite and perpendicular to the exit side of the end turns.
I'll post some pics when it stops look like sh--.
Deep breath......okaaaay....try number three.
Thanks Mac, I've been trying hard all along to follow the logic but the pic you posted really brought it home.
In order to refrain from adulterating the coil as much as possible I have been inserting it through the bottom of the 510 connector then reinserting the mandrel for assembly. Might not work for coils with alot more winds though.
My intent is , as you said and as your pics show, to terminate at the grommet opposite and perpendicular to the exit side of the end turns.
I'll post some pics when it stops look like sh--.
Deep breath......okaaaay....try number three.
Really neat idea!
(Why didn't I think of that? I heard everyone in the room gasp.)
I knew you were sharp cig.
Yeah building a few gets you in the groove. That's when you really score points in muscle memory.
Good luck.
..............My intent is , as you said and as your pics show, to terminate at the grommet opposite and perpendicular to the exit side of the end turns.
I'll post some pics when it stops look like sh--.
Deep breath......okaaaay....try number three.
Many deep breathes later.......tried number 4,5,6
These squishy silicone grommets are SLIPPERY as......
:Why do tonight what can be put off till tomorrow.
Night folks, cig
Many deep breathes later.......tried number 4,5,6
These squishy silicone grommets are SLIPPERY as......
Why do tonight what can be put off till tomorrow.
Night folks, cig
Ok, got it. Understanding where the legs need to enter the grommet helped rectify a few issues I was having.
Due to my affiliation with an organization called "lisDexics Untie" I am finding it easier to terminate straight off the coil to the grommet instead of crossing over to it.
I realize that this could cause the end turn to expand in diameter due to grommet compression when the battery is installed but so far it hasn't caused too much trouble.
Thanks, cig
"lisDexics Untie"
LMAOReally was a great pic of how best to orient the coil on the bit for install. Sometimes simple is better.
I try not to take the coil off the bit to protect these little creatures as much as possible. But even a 28g coil is fragile. Even going down the side slot if you jarr a leg by poking it into the side of the assembly it can be enough to disrupt the adhesion you got to in your wind. It's a small scale cig. And most of the changes too small to see.
I've given a lot of thought to your bottom insertion idea. It has a lot of merit. If you hold the coil at the "Y" where the legs cross and push both gently inwards (towards the center of the coil) you may put a bit of pressure on the top side of the end turns. If the "Y" is far enough removed perhaps not enough to accordion (separate) the end turn tops or coil overall. A light squeeze.
It's definitely worth a try if you feel confident enough to reinsert the bit with care so as to not disturb the wind.
Good luck cig, and let us know how that vape's goin.
"lisDexics Untie"
Really was a great pic of how best to orient the coil on the bit for install. Sometimes simple is better.
I try not to take the coil off the bit to protect these little creatures as much as possible. But even a 28g coil is fragile. Even going down the side slot if you jarr a leg by poking it into the side of the assembly it can be enough to disrupt the adhesion you got to in your wind. It's a small scale cig. And most of the changes too small to see.
I've given a lot of thought to your bottom insertion idea. It has a lot of merit. If you hold the coil at the "Y" where the legs cross and push both gently inwards (towards the center of the coil) you may put a bit of pressure on the top side of the end turns. If the "Y" is far enough removed perhaps not enough to accordion (separate) the end turn tops or coil overall. A light squeeze.
It's definitely worth a try if you feel confident enough to reinsert the bit with care so as to not disturb the wind.
Good luck cig, and let us know how that vape's goin.
All sounds good.
Even easier for me now that I'm not crossing the leads any longer. Had a lot of trouble getting things lined up with those crossed leads.
My new method is too terminate directly from the end turns to the near side of the grommet. The coil is underwound at 6:30 o'clock for the pos and 4:30 o'clock for the neg without crossing. (My coils are wound left-hand thread)
When the coil is inserted from the bottom the leads are not compressed much and seems to make it easier for me to line things up.
Once the mandrel is reinstalled and the grommet is set, I then rotate the gromment and the neg lead simultaneously to position the neg lead at the point that perfectly centers the coil. Then very slightly tension it.
After re-verifying proper location of the neg and pos leads I set the pos pin. I then tension both leads alternating between the two until tight.
Using this method I have been able to withdraw the mandrel without any coil movement. Not even a twitch. No more pushing and prodding.....yeah that!
Maybe I'm just lucky so far but have not had any visual negative side effects....yet
Still play'n round
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Excellent! An approach, after the fact, I described in more detail to the OP earlier in this thread in a roundup of termination. If you encounter horizontal rotation of the coil after you withdraw the bit you can adjust for it (return it to alignment with the slot) by rotating both leads, grasping the pin and grommet and firmly and very slightly turning both together. The risk here comes with slippery grommets that you might lose the balance of tension in one or both leads if either or both slip. End turns may change and even adhesion can be lost. Then you've lost the coil. But worth a try because you won't get a good vape if the skewed wick is crimped at the slot. A harder grommet though a bit more difficult to install initially saves you then.
So I'm likin' your insertion method. Here's why…
You want to end up with a coil that's as undisturbed as it was on the bit when you wound it. Any deviation from that, skew of any kind indicates some kind of stress (strain) was added by something you did subsequently. It may not prevent the coil from going micro but perhaps distort it enough that it doesn't reach the efficiency potential that it might have had when wound to a point of adhesion (if the strain added isn't relieved). When a coil skews [horizontally, by rotation of its axis] at withdrawal of the bit it is ideal if it doesn't move or change its geometry or symmetry. When it does, a change has been induced.
[Once realigned with the slot] it's almost always better if a quick tweak like a nudge or raking doesn't restore it to consider a reset (pulling the pin and grommet). Or really for as little time as it takes, rewinding it.
Whole lot less heartache.
Just love it when ya'll think you're a coil. LOL
Good luck.
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Hey folks, anyone tried the "wick tuck" method (elliminates need for flavor wick) for cotton wicked kanger clearos yet?
Not intending on a hijack here, just would be great to hear positive or negative feedback. :d
Cig
Not intending on a hijack here, just would be great to hear positive or negative feedback. :d
Cig
Tried on the aerotank coil, and worked like charm ! Vaping a really nice NET with it as I type
... Might be blasphemy to some, but I think I enjoy it more than a dripper or kay/tai . Not harsh on my throat with the 12 mg juices I use.Sent from my SGH-T999 using Tapatalk
Excellent! An approach, after the fact, I described in more detail to the OP earlier in this thread in a roundup of termination. If you encounter horizontal rotation of the coil after you withdraw the bit you can adjust for it (return it to alignment with the slot) by rotating both leads, grasping the pin and grommet and firmly and very slightly turning both together. The risk here comes with slippery grommets that you might lose the balance of tension in one or both leads if either or both slip. End turns may change and even adhesion can be lost. Then you've lost the coil. But worth a try because you won't get a good vape if the skewed wick is crimped at the slot. A harder grommet though a bit more difficult to install initially saves you then.
So I'm likin' your insertion method. Here's why
You want to end up with a coil that's as undisturbed as it was on the bit when you wound it. Any deviation from that, skew of any kind indicates some kind of stress (strain) was added by something you did subsequently. It may not prevent the coil from going micro but perhaps distort it enough that it doesn't reach the efficiency potential that it might have had when wound to a point of adhesion (if the strain added isn't relieved). When a coil skews [horizontally, by rotation of its axis] at withdrawal of the bit it is ideal if it doesn't move or change its geometry or symmetry. When it does, a change has been induced.
[Once realigned with the slot] it's almost always better if a quick tweak like a nudge or raking doesn't restore it to consider a reset (pulling the pin and grommet). Or really for as little time as it takes, rewinding it.
Whole lot less heartache.
Just love it when ya'll think you're a coil. LOL
Good luck.
Mac, if one had a choice between a slightly (and I mean slightly) off axis/non centered coil, and one which has one or both end turns losing some contact with the rest of the coil, which diminishes the vape quality more in your opinion ?
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Tried it, didn't wet the tucked part and worked great for awhile, but I used too much cotton and it choked the flow and burned a bit. My own fault for poor wicking.
Just got some ready x wick xc116 to try. Will try when I get home.
Sent from my Galaxy Note 3 via Tapatalk.
Btw, there is no need for the method, or a flavor wick on regular kanger coils, only on the duals rebuilt as singles !
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I'm with you. Never use flavor wicks on rebuilt Kangers because I'd lost the draw and vape quality. Figured I'd try this method to avoid flavor wicks choking the draw, while still avoiding the occasional spray in mouth from not using enough cotton in my wick.
Just so happened that I over did with the cotton so choked it too much and burned a little cotton.
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Thanks again, Mac, cig, Maz, Bill, and everyone else for all your great input!! I really appreciate the time, experimenting and research you all have been putting into this. I know I haven't been around too much lately, but I have been reading!!
Lately I've been sticking to standard spaced coils for my Protank; but I'm about to start building micro's/macro's/contact-coil's again. I have a mech-mod now so I want to experiment a bit again, (still searching for a ZNA30!!).
.... When I was last building micro's for my Protank, I was beginning to build consistent contact/micro-coil's each time. But I always had problems with installation! I would always get the problems you guys mention - the coil wandering way from the slots, screwing up installing the coil which would mess up a perfect microcoil I had built, grommet slippage, etc..
^^
So all the information you guys have been providing in the past few pages has been very helpful for me, and makes me want to start building micros again. I will use some of this info you guys provided from your research, and see if I can get a few excellent builds that vape great. I'll chime back in and let you guys know what I'm building and how it goes
As for the "wick-tuck" method you guys have been trying out, I'd definitely love to try this out on my protank with cotton. I'll see how it works on my next build, great idea! I feel like it might work better for the dual-coil PT3's and Aerotanks and such with the taller slot. I'm still using my Protank2 w/ airflow controller, but I'll definitely give it a try.
....... I stopped using flavor-wicks about a week after I started rebuilding my PT coils with cotton. Lol, they definitely mute the flavor and restrict vapor, in my opinion
Lately I've been sticking to standard spaced coils for my Protank; but I'm about to start building micro's/macro's/contact-coil's again. I have a mech-mod now so I want to experiment a bit again, (still searching for a ZNA30!!).
.... When I was last building micro's for my Protank, I was beginning to build consistent contact/micro-coil's each time. But I always had problems with installation! I would always get the problems you guys mention - the coil wandering way from the slots, screwing up installing the coil which would mess up a perfect microcoil I had built, grommet slippage, etc..
^^
So all the information you guys have been providing in the past few pages has been very helpful for me, and makes me want to start building micros again. I will use some of this info you guys provided from your research, and see if I can get a few excellent builds that vape great. I'll chime back in and let you guys know what I'm building and how it goes
As for the "wick-tuck" method you guys have been trying out, I'd definitely love to try this out on my protank with cotton. I'll see how it works on my next build, great idea! I feel like it might work better for the dual-coil PT3's and Aerotanks and such with the taller slot. I'm still using my Protank2 w/ airflow controller, but I'll definitely give it a try.
....... I stopped using flavor-wicks about a week after I started rebuilding my PT coils with cotton. Lol, they definitely mute the flavor and restrict vapor, in my opinion
Xc 116= very impressive wick medium. I had a burn mark from where the coil dry burned it. A quick torching, away goes the burn mark. Very, very mild discoloration at the edges of the wick after the torching, but nothing concerning.
Did a great job in a sub ohm dripper. Used the 2mm thick xc 116 in my pt2, but there was to big a gap so I used an equal sized piece as a flavor wick. Wow is all I have to say. Nothing muted nor did I experience a decrease in vapor production.
I'm about to try the wick in my Taifun gs.
Probably should've ordered more than a foot.
Edit: tried on the Taifun GS. May need to give it more time to saturate, but right now I'm getting a lot of dry, nasty hits with the XC 116 in the Taifun. Will post another edit in a couple hours.
2nd edit: it appears, at least in the Taifun gs with xc 116, it vapes great as long as I don't try to chain vape. I also dropped the wattage to 9.5 from 12, which was the wattage I was using with cotton. Sorry about the OT. I just got the idea for this wicking from this thread.
Works great as a chain vape in the pt2.
Sent from my Galaxy Note 3 via Tapatalk.
Did a great job in a sub ohm dripper. Used the 2mm thick xc 116 in my pt2, but there was to big a gap so I used an equal sized piece as a flavor wick. Wow is all I have to say. Nothing muted nor did I experience a decrease in vapor production.
I'm about to try the wick in my Taifun gs.
Probably should've ordered more than a foot.
Edit: tried on the Taifun GS. May need to give it more time to saturate, but right now I'm getting a lot of dry, nasty hits with the XC 116 in the Taifun. Will post another edit in a couple hours.
2nd edit: it appears, at least in the Taifun gs with xc 116, it vapes great as long as I don't try to chain vape. I also dropped the wattage to 9.5 from 12, which was the wattage I was using with cotton. Sorry about the OT. I just got the idea for this wicking from this thread.
Works great as a chain vape in the pt2.
Sent from my Galaxy Note 3 via Tapatalk.
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