Protank MicroCoil Discussion!!

[f1vefour]

What you said. Both great ideas. What I'm suggesting having worked through 28g and now 29 to 1.3Ω is you need to up your power. If you don't, you flood. Being that it's his g/f (just thinkin', maybe toooo much) it might be easier to find a broader more comfortable range. Me, I build the 15 watt set. I'm 12-15 on the drips, and likin' it.

Just sayin'

I would have recommended higher gauge wire but figured since he is using an rda chances are 28 gauge would be all he had.

I believe a stock KangerTech coil is 32 gauge just by looking at it, I have had surprisingly good luck with 32.

 

[LReyes66]

Yup essentially all I really have is 28g since I bought the 100ft roll on amazon... I had twisted all my 32g but luckily I had bought a yard of 30g from a local vape store last night to twist but having gotten to it yet so I can redo my protank build

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk

 

[MacTechVpr]

You may want to try adding a flavor wick. Alternatively you can bump up the VG ratio in her eliquid.

It's that last 1.4Ω 29 build I'm working on. Third build. First two coming out of washes and they usually break in well. But I've hit a bottom at 1.4 and 8W. The PT starts to flood below that power level, now the third build, at about half the tank. <shrug> I had similar results winding down through 28G with clearo's. Just don't want to suggest the average person beginning to rebuild should start campin' out beyond the green zone. So there you have it…it is what it is.

Good luck.

 

[beckdg]

agreed about camping out as a coil/wick beginner. though, it must be said, that green zone is merely a suggestion. some in the know may call it pure BS'ery. wattage is merely one variable in heat production and temperature is the constant we're aiming to hit.

about that horrid grommet and the inconsistent air flow. there are a few fixes. some use the evod base or the aero tank base with the air flow control. however. if you're not looking to swap out the base to a mis-match ego connection or a reportedly finicky (to what degree i cannot say, it's still early in production) air flow controller of the aero tank... there's the silicone tubing pointed out by trayce. if it's cut straight about .5 mm shorter than the stock grommet and inserted to the same depth (leaving about .5mm less insulation showing between the 510 connector and the pin), it seats perfect and narrower than the connection pin itself. perfect every time. just have to cut it straight at the right length and set the depth of the grommet yourself instead of relying on a rib to stop it short during insertion.

a little observation about the 28Ga 5/64" 1.8Ω build...
don't even try it with juices that gunk up coils. it's not worth it.
i can run this build all day long with 100% VG @ 12+ Watts chain vaping and it wicks great. FAN-friggin-TASTIC!
if i put even a 50/50 pg/vg blend in there with some juice that doesn't burn so clean, it's not long before i have a choice between taking long breaks between vapes or gurgling. doesn't matter how i set the wick or if i'm in the green zone.

i wouldn't even think of trying a tobacco blend on that build, personally.

 

[MacTechVpr]

a little observation about the 28Ga 5/64" 1.8Ω build...
don't even try it with juices that gunk up coils. it's not worth it.
i can run this build all day long with 100% VG @ 12+ Watts chain vaping and it wicks great. FAN-friggin-TASTIC!
if i put even a 50/50 pg/vg blend in there with some juice that doesn't burn so clean, it's not long before i have a choice between taking long breaks between vapes or gurgling. doesn't matter how i set the wick.

i wouldn't even think of trying a tobacco blend on that build, personally.

Exactly what I found beck, and I thought that a bit rich for newcomers and early micro adopters to be able to handle, not having the control and regard for power needed to be safe. Being that I hope they go from the facsimile quickly to the micro and safe control they just gotta learn to build. But I found 28g very power needy in a protank, so easy on other atomizers. And that particular build at about 1.5Ω I loved with Eko, and burned the crap out of it with silica. And the Sig v3 sloped head with better air flow just loved to pour the power into it. Tobacco if you're a fan like me is hard all around but a challenge well worth it. Thanks for the input.

Good luck.

 

[MacTechVpr]

Here is a sum-up of the most pertinent validations I have made for KPT (addendum in blue) with remarks and pictures to follow…

32AWG, 7/6 1.75mm i.d. m.c. = 2.2Ω √
32AWG, 5/4 2mm i.d., loose m.c. = 1.85Ω √
30AWG, 11/10 1/16-1.58mm i.d., m.c. = 2.1Ω √ #292 MrOcelot
30AWG, 10/9 1/16-1.58mm i.d., m.c. = 2.04Ω √
30AWG, 9/8 1.75mm i.d., t.m.c. =2.01 √
30AWG, 8/7 1.75mm i.d. m.c. = 1.85Ω √
30AWG, 8/7 1/16-1.58mm i.d. m.c. = 1.81√
30AWG, 8/7 1/16-1.58mm i.d. t.m.c. = 1.73Ω √
30AWG, 7/6 1.75mm i.d., m.c. = 1.78 √
30AWG, 7/6 1/16-1.58mm i.d., m.c. = 1.57Ω √
29AWG, 9/8 1.75mm i.d., t.m.c. = 1.92Ω √
29AWG, 9/8 1.58mm i.d., t.m.c. = 1.72Ω √
29AWG, 8/7 1.75mm i.d., t.m.c. = 1.52Ω √
29AWG, 8/7 1.58mm i.d., t.m.c. = 1.40Ω √
28AWG, 12/11, 1/16-1.58mm i.d., m.c. = 1.3Ω #241 vdaedalus
28AWG, 10/9, 2mm i.d., m.c.= 1.62Ω
28AWG, 9/8, 2mm i.d., m.c.= 1.49Ω
28AWG, 8/7 2mm i.d., m.c.= 1.3Ω

m.c.= conventional contact coil
t.m.c. = torsioned (or tensioned) contact coil
(n.b. A mechanically wound coil is not necessarily tensioned. Preferably tension adequate to induce turn-adhesion must have been applied for its use to be inferred or reported. Not merely external heat or forming pressure. Thank you, as there will be resistance implications.)

Hope this info is helpful in targeting your temp sets. Let me know your validations please (or successful improvement so we can test it!).

Good luck all.

 

[MacTechVpr]

This triplicate build proved pretty interesting and challenging in several ways...

First the problem…a serious pos leg slip. And I've been encountering them more often lately. Two/three in this grouping. After dissecting the three and putting them back in play at about their original resistance there seem to be two issues. The principal one is the slippery nature of the grommet with any moisture at all. And I don't recall this being that serious with grommets from the 1st gen Protank. Since the 1.5, or bracket no glue whatever you call it interim PT, the grommets seem to be a bit better. But they are prone to skew and you have to look for that in the set and during use. I'm seeing them more as I use more of the newer heads and the substitute grommets from Lightning Vapes. That's a shame that an effort apparently to make them better, less prone to scorching and bad flavor, referring to the Kanger's, might produce this outcome. Or is it? Well on the one hand it makes it a bit harder for rebuilding; and, it encourages more coil assembly purchases. Maybe I'm just being too cynical here. Kanger really is looking out for us.

Secondly, the slipperier that the insulator becomes, as in possibly fully silicone, the harder the build will be as the newer versions appear to be a composite with more silicone. And this is a problem for tension winding whether by hand or by mechanical device. My hope has been to avoid any further annealing of wire. To do so more thoroughly and uniformly by pulsing. However, annealing the wire carbonizes and so roughens the surface. I'm hopeful that this may help and I'm returning to annealing the section of wire I'm spooling for the time being to see if this helps mitigate slippage. I'm doubtful but anything that helps you stabilize your resistance set we need to do. Report as further builds come.

Well following the misbehavior of miss 1.4Ω 29g, the 1.52Ω group was better behaved with a predictable warm and fluid vape. And today I took a cue from an earlier post by f1vefourhttp://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...ank-microcoil-discussion-56.html#post11926980http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...ank-microcoil-discussion-56.html#post11926980 (and my following) in which he talks about wicking the juice channels as a method to address flooding. I had tried it very early in my rebuilding but didn't appreciate lack of power as the problem at the time regrettably setting this excellent idea aside along with cotton. Following are some pic's of the 1.72Ω build fired and the juice channel wicking. It is the same wick in use, Nextel XC-132 in 1/16", in sections just a tad longer than the flavor wick. The immediate observation was, to my surprise, much airier delivery! More vapor volume and notably lighter. This was one of the tighter builds I've done and I haven't worked out the theoretical yet but this result was unexpected. I'll be continuing this method to see if the airy result remains consistent versus some controls. Back at ya later.

Enjoy this one!



Good luck.

 

[f1vefour]

How does that last build vape, it looks like it would be excellent.

 

[MacTechVpr]

How does that last build vape, it looks like it would be excellent.

I'll say before going further that I really, really like 28 AWG in the KPT. Some of the first testing I did when I conceived of working out comprehensive resistance tables was this wire gauge. The problem here is the 510 insulator in the Protank. You would think that a thicker gauge would crimp better and be less likely to be fidgety. But my experience has been the opposite. It displaces, it bulges, it protrudes and with each one of these the proclivity for the set to change with the routine things we do like refill the tank.

And that's what I'm encountering with 29g, more of the same as I did with the 1st and 2nd round tests I did with 28g encompassing dozens of builds. So somewhat of a disappointment that it's difficult to maintain the build. It requires far too much drying, cleaning and monitoring. And so it defeats the unique attribute which distinguishes the Protank as a good walk around atomizer…that it doesn't leak. Well that is certainly mostly true, if you don't vape it with 28/29g.

As to vape quality, this last 1.72Ω set is great, particularly incorporating your juice channel wick suggestion. Between dryings and readjustment of the 510 when needed to try and keep the resistance more or less the same…the vape quality is on the high-end for the Protank (given the resistance). You need fully 8W which is the limit of my testing to maintain flow. Vapor is very good, as is flavor and while dry consistent. When I take a good 5-6 sec lung pull on this set it starts to resemble something out of Rip Tripper's bodacious 15W excursions. And tasty too! Just a good solid vaping experience. If it weren't for the insulator which I've commented about recently. As I mentioned I'm returning to annealing, at least the legs, perhaps after the wind on the mandrel before setting. This may help constrain the wiggles which if severe can skew the coil wrecking the build and resistance.

BTW, likewise the 8/7 1.52Ω set but finishing out the last of three on this, it hasn't been as fiddly. Just haven't tried the channel wicking with it. I may on the last top-off if for nothing else than an impression. I'm pretty impressed already. And at least for my builds I'll be doing it and at least demonstrating it at workshops. So thanks f1ve. I'm concerned about the build cost here as Nextel street is $7 per. I would imagine any extra silica, Eko or cotton would do though and I'll be looking at that too.

I'm headed on the other side of 30 for a revisit after this. I did very few of these (31g) some months ago having difficulty getting the wire at the time. This will help fill in on resistance target values. And I have an ample supply now.

It is what it is. A Protank with a wonky grommet, elastic disappearing silicone o-ring and porous flange threading. I have a love/hate relationship with it.

Good luck.

 

[MacTechVpr]

How does that last build vape, it looks like it would be excellent.

As to vape quality, this last 1.72Ω set is great, particularly incorporating your juice channel wick suggestion…When I take a good 5-6 sec lung pull on this set it starts to resemble something out of Rip Tripper's bodacious 15W excursions.

Well your question really got me curious. While my comments about more seeping stand, one of the three 1.72Ω sets (orig 1.73Ω) had consistent resistance skewing. All three builds gave me sporadic low load and off res reads on Sigelei's when wet. The last though kept going sub 1.5Ω with more persistent reads. So I just took it apart this morning to thoroughly examine it. Turns out it's a very tight 8/7 on the 16th, now reading after a new set (retightened and repositioned) @1.43Ω.

Alright, well, ok…now that we've gone this far.

Let's see how far this bird will fly with f1ve's channel wicks. Dude 12W chained 6-sec draws, no flood, till I buzzed and said no mas. A 1.4Ω tensioned on 1/16" will definitely put you in Rip country. This honey's got legs! Ok? Alrighty then.

Later.

 

[MacTechVpr]

Hey everybody, did any of you try to leave a looooong wick (vivi-style) while re-wicking a protank atty? Is it worth a try? I was thinking it could stop the occasional leaking and wick better..? Or not?

Well following the misbehavior of miss 1.4Ω 29g, the 1.52Ω group was better behaved with a predictable warm and fluid vape. And today I took a cue from an earlier post by f1vefourhttp://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...ank-microcoil-discussion-56.html#post11926980http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...ank-microcoil-discussion-56.html#post11926980 (and my following) in which he talks about wicking the juice channels as a method to address flooding. I had tried it very early in my rebuilding but didn't appreciate lack of power as the problem at the time regrettably setting this excellent idea aside along with cotton. Following are some pic's of the 1.72Ω build fired and the juice channel wicking. It is the same wick in use, Nextel XC-132 in 1/16", in sections just a tad longer than the flavor wick. The immediate observation was, to my surprise, much airier delivery! More vapor volume and notably lighter. This was one of the tighter builds I've done and I haven't worked out the theoretical yet but this result was unexpected. I'll be continuing this method to see if the airy result remains consistent versus some controls.

View attachment 296858 View attachment 296859

Good morning glycerol, responding to you on this thread so you may have a chance to review some of the related conversation. Yes, this technique does apparently seem to work in stemming some of the leaking past the coil head flange into the 510 socket. It does also seem to result in somewhat of a more airy and fuller vape. I would try anything in the channels, fill them completely, with the same or alternative wicking media. It makes it a bit more tedious to clean as they probably will come out or have to come out if you clean as per the wick flushing suggestion I provide for prolonging coil life.

Some time ago I experimented with this solution using silica, cotton and Ekowool. I believed that putting a bend in the wick tended to impede wicking. I was trying to address flooding issues but in the end got less flow and dry hits. So first flood then dry. I gave up on the idea but it definitely seems to work. On this particular build, taken down multiple times and rebuilt (fully reassembled) once with the same coil and the channel wicks it is vaping exceptionally well.

So I would go ahead and try any wick media, recommend it.

Good luck!

 

[M_DuBb716]

Good points, Mac.. For my past few months of microcoil-building (with cotton balls for wick), I've been trying to use as little of an amount of wick as possible, but not too little to the point where it leaks/floods. This includes how long my wick is, I usually cut it right up against the flange - I figure with less wick, the juice can get to the coil easier. Plus with cotton, it really does swell up a LOT when it soaks up some juice, and it can take up a lot of room.
..... When I first started building micros, I was using too much cotton, and I think that's why I wasn't getting great flavor until a month or 2 in. If you can feel any tension when you pull the cotton wick through that coil, it's probably too much. But it shouldn't be able to just fall out of the coil (when dry), either. You really have to find a perfect balance with cotton, your juice, the type of coil you build, power used, etc.., like Mac has mentioned earlier in this thread.

But lately, I've been trying a slightly longer wick, just a hair over the metal flange - still very thin in diameter though.

My most recent microcoil has been vaping real good in my PT2, I broke my PT1 (original, not 1.5) yesterday, had it on my lap when I stood up and it shattered on my eVic. The same coil is vaping real good in my PT2 though - 10 wraps of 30g on a 16gauge bit (1.65mm), 2.1ohms. I usually don't get as good of a flavor over 2ohms but this is surprisingly good

Still trying to decide if I like my 1.58mm (1/16"), or 1.65mm/16gauge microcoils better. Been going back and forth with both

 

[M_DuBb716]

I'd like to try an even smaller microcoil, or nanocoil if you will, in my Protank. Like 1.0 to 1.5mm wide, but I'm afraid that with the smaller diameter, that it will leak in a Protank without a flavor wick. And I really don't want to go back to flavor-wicks either lol, those were another reason why I wasn't getting great flavor in my 1st few months of building micros!

Has anybody tried a nanocoil, or a smaller microcoil (like less than 1.6mm wide), in any of the Protanks/evods?? I'd like to try a dual-micro too eventually, but that's another topic. I remember you guys were talking about the vertical also - I tried it a couple months back, but couldn't find the balance for it to wick properly and give me a good vape, I only tried building it once though and it may have just been a crappy microcoil-build, on my part

 

[f1vefour]

I have a nanocoil build, it does get gurgly at about 1/4 of a tank or so but this is with 80PG juice.

As long as your cotton is large enough coming out of the juice channels flooding will be minimal, you can tell when you have too much cotton by air draw. Stiffer than normal will pull too much juice through the wick causing flooding, a loose draw and you will get dry hits.

On a known good build get a good feeling of the air draw and try to match it, this has helped my wicking issues quite a bit.

 

[MacTechVpr]

I have a nanocoil build, it does get gurgly at about 1/4 of a tank or so but this is with 80PG juice.

As long as your cotton is large enough coming out of the juice channels flooding will be minimal, you can tell when you have too much cotton by air draw. Stiffer than normal will pull too much juice through the wick causing flooding, a loose draw and you will get dry hits.

On a known good build get a good feeling of the air draw and try to match it, this has helped my wicking issues quite a bit.

It does seem to be all about the airflow. The grommets and seeping cease to be an issue if you can first keep the bottom of the assembly dry. If you can match the airflow to the build, coil design/wick/power applied, you don't get wet.

I'm winding down KPT and clearo testing soon moving on to wicking on RBA's. When I do I think I will finally break down and limit the KPT collection with an addition which I'll test separately soon…

Kanger Airflow Control Valve

as I never tested the Aero Tank (dual coil is newb overkill). Any thoughts?

 

[MacTechVpr]

...Yes, this technique does apparently seem to work in stemming some of the leaking past the coil head flange into the 510 socket…

...As long as your cotton is large enough coming out of the juice channels flooding will be minimal, you can tell when you have too much cotton by air draw. Stiffer than normal will pull too much juice through the wick causing flooding, a loose draw and you will get dry hits...On a known good build get a good feeling of the air draw and try to match it, this has helped my wicking issues quite a bit.

This is where I began to get the hang of it, and more naturally, on RDA's. Lot easier to tweak cotton on one. And the results are immediate. It comes hard on the Protank to find that balance between adequate draw or flow and air.

Good points, Mac...Still trying to decide if I like my 1.58mm (1/16"), or 1.65mm/16gauge microcoils better. Been going back and forth with both

Sorry about that accident. I hate losin' one of those critters but it happens. I'm totally impressed at the range of performance of 30g @ 2Ω on the PTK. But I gotta tell ya both, that 1.4Ω 29 1/16 I rebuilt this morning is kicking' and I've been chaining it all day! It's by far one of the cleanest config's I've run by far because I seldom expose these builds, a single tank, to that much activity and seldom repeatedly over 10W. And f1ve it would appear that your instincts are correct the wicks play an important part.

Looks like folks are going to need an airflow…and a juice channel solution. LOL

Good luck.

 

[M_DuBb716]

Ooohh Mac I'm definitely getting the airflow control valve. I'm suprised I haven't bought it already! Haven't tried the Aerotank, PT3, Or Unitank myself either

 

[TafkanX]

Going to be picking up an Aspire Nautilus this Friday, which may carry me away from the Kanger line. Was going to stay away from it because the coils were reportedly not rebuildable, but Rip Trippers recently uncovered a method to rebuild one with a microcoil. Even though it isn't a KPT I'll still probably report my findings here.

 

[f1vefour]

Going to be picking up an Aspire Nautilus this Friday, which may carry me away from the Kanger line. Was going to stay away from it because the coils were reportedly not rebuildable, but Rip Trippers recently uncovered a method to rebuild one with a microcoil. Even though it isn't a KPT I'll still probably report my findings here.

Did you see all that silica fly out when Rip pulled those stock coils out? I would be very wary of the stock coils and getting a tank full of silica.

 

[MacTechVpr]

Going to be picking up an Aspire Nautilus this Friday, which may carry me away from the Kanger line. Was going to stay away from it because the coils were reportedly not rebuildable, but Rip Trippers recently uncovered a method to rebuild one with a microcoil. Even though it isn't a KPT I'll still probably report my findings here.

Did you see all that silica fly out when Rip pulled those stock coils out? I would be very wary of the stock coils and getting a tank full of silica.

Silica in a 510 is like a stand of bamboo in a monsoon. It decays in any tank falling aside into the gunky airflow in the socket. Sorta like having to pick your nose. Yeah, kinda better if you hide that noise.

Just sayin'.