Protank MicroCoil Discussion!!

[Christopherja]

As long as we're compiling (hopefully) repeatable results, I thought I'd add my go-to wrap for the MiniPT2.

30AWG, 11/10, 1.2mm = 1.8Ω

I should also say that it's a "t.m.c" (tensioned micro coil, according to this thread's parlance)

I wrap this every other day or so, and it's always been absolutely on the money, every wrap. And here's a horridly awful photo...

 

[M_DuBb716]

Figured I'd post super_X_drifter's youtube videos, on Mac's tension winding technique:

Micro Coil The super_Mac Way - So Easy And So Tight - YouTube
Darkzero Coil jig super_Mac Micro Coil - YouTube
Micro Coils 101 - Part One - Making The Tightest Coil You've Ever Made - YouTube

... Thanks Mac for the amazing technique, and for drifter for putting this all to video!! This should help a lot of people

 

[MacTechVpr]

30AWG, 11/10, 1.2mm = 1.8Ω... it's a "t.m.c" (tensioned micro coil, according to this thread's parlance...I wrap this every other day or so, and it's always been absolutely on the money, every wrap.

Noted. Thanks beaucoup for the contribution Chris. Remember they'll be gunnin' for ya now boss. Good luck.

Here is a sum-up of the most pertinent validations I have made for KPT (or as noted), addendum in blue…

32AWG, 7/6 1.75mm i.d. m.c. = 2.2Ω √
32AWG, 5/4 2mm i.d., loose m.c. = 1.85Ω √
30AWG, 11/10 1/16-1.58mm i.d., m.c. = 2.1Ω √ #292 MrOcelot
30AWG, 11/10, 1.2mm i.d., t.m.c. = 1.8Ω √ #601 Christopherja
30AWG, 10/9 1/16-1.58mm i.d., m.c. = 2.04Ω √
30AWG, 9/8 1.75mm i.d., t.m.c. =2.01 √
30AWG, 8/7 1.75mm i.d. m.c. = 1.85Ω √
30AWG, 8/7 1/16-1.58mm i.d. m.c. = 1.81√
30AWG, 8/7 1/16-1.58mm i.d. t.m.c. = 1.73Ω √
30AWG, 7/6 1.75mm i.d., m.c. = 1.78 √
30AWG, 7/6 1/16-1.58mm i.d., m.c. = 1.57Ω √
29AWG, 9/8 1.75mm i.d., t.m.c. = 1.92Ω √
29AWG, 9/8 1.58mm i.d., t.m.c. = 1.72Ω √
29AWG, 8/7 1.75mm i.d., t.m.c. = 1.52Ω √
29AWG, 8/7 1.58mm i.d., t.m.c. = 1.40Ω √
28AWG, 12/11, 1/16-1.58mm i.d., m.c. = 1.3Ω #241 vdaedalus
28AWG, 10/9, 2mm i.d., m.c.= 1.62Ω
28AWG, 9/8, 2mm i.d., m.c.= 1.49Ω
28AWG, 8/7 2mm i.d., m.c.= 1.3Ω

m.c.= conventional contact coil
t.m.c. = torsioned (or tensioned) contact coil
(n.b. A mechanically wound coil is not necessarily tensioned. Preferably tension adequate to induce turn-adhesion must have been applied for its use to be inferred or reported. Not merely external heat or forming pressure. Thank you, as there will be resistance implications.)

Hope this info is helpful in targeting your temp sets. Let me know your validations please (or successful improvement so we can test it!).

Good luck all.

 

[M_DuBb716]

ugh broke my eVic http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...907-broke-my-evic-what-next.html#post12055329

 

[M_DuBb716]

........lol

 

[MacTechVpr]

Dear Mac,

I have been searching for an answer but am hoping you can offer me advice at least in the ballpark of what I am looking for.
I am attempting to rebuild protank heads. I have peaches and cream cotton yarn, 28 gauge kanthal and various blunt needles. I have tried 9 wraps micro coil on 18 and 14, and getting a result of 1.05ohms and .51ohms. I am actually shooting for something closer to 2.0ohms. I recently gotten some 20 gauge needles for hopefully this purpose. Can you help direct me?
Sincerely,
Chapeltown.

sent from an undisclosed location on a secret device.

Good morning chapeltown. Thanks your question. I hope you don't mind I'll be posting my response on the http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...ank-microcoil-discussion-61.html#post12052257 thread where the answer will be useful to others.

First, I rejected using blunt needles as I ran into too much variation in the diameters to predict consistently for my purposes…here's a dimensional chart. That's not to say you can't. Just accept more deviation. Small instrument screwdrivers have a better precision although you get what you pay for. And with what they charge for the silly things you could have half a dozen and a substantial array of alternative Ø's. You can also wind with tension which is a simple technique I strongly recommend for durability and stability of the build.

I haven't done any test validations I can certify with your spec (.90-.92mm). With cotton you can certainly have enough tail to fill the slot and prevent flooding. I believe a 16 gauge (1.63-1.67mm) would be more in the optimal range of coils for the KPT. Much above this and you won't be able to fit the wind in the slot down far enough to stabilize the termination. I would suggest a 1.7-1.8mm or 3/43" (~1.77mm) instrument screw to allow for a tension wind. But I would be very interested if you would post validations whether tensioned or not as this would help fill in the tables with alternatives.

So the short answer is I don't have an answer. You may calculate the approx. theoretical for your build by imputing the wind values with the Helical Coil Calculator. The shortest leg lengths I have recorded are ~7mm, 8.75 for neg/pos respectively for 28awg. You'll need to add this to the line length product of the utility. Use the chart above to determine your Ø value, 0-turn spacing, input #/turns. Note that the wire diameter is actually a product of the wind or mandrel Ø plus the width of the wire gauge, e.g. 0.0126 inches for 28awg. Then derive your resistance by prorating the Ω/ft. from published tables, i.e. Kanthal A1 Ω Table.

Somewhat a convoluted process for those skittish about math. Why I haven't posted it. However, it will yield the theoretical which I don't find as practical as the real world results.

I hope this is helpful. As a newb I found looking through the forum equally baffling. Virtually all the accounts of results you encounter are missing one parameter or another necessary to actually build the thing. And too often trying a few, dismally off. That is the reason I am posting these tables here. A quick and dirty target. At least you can establish your own starting point, a baseline result.

PM me if you need help with the calculator or alternatives.

Good luck.

 

[TexasTanker19kilo20]

30AWG, 7/6 1/16-1.58mm i.d., m.c. = 1.57Ω √

Crazy that I checked this thread and saw this. I had a 5 wrap, 1/16, 30awg, 1.2Ω in my PT2 for a week. I decided to rebuild this morning, but instead of 5 wraps, I decided to do 7 wraps and it came out to 1.5Ω as per my eVic.

Spot on Mac, I always enjoy reading this thread.

 

[MacTechVpr]

Crazy that I checked this thread and saw this. I had a 5 wrap, 1/16, 30awg, 1.2Ω in my PT2 for a week. I decided to rebuild this morning, but instead of 5 wraps, I decided to do 7 wraps and it came out to 1.5Ω as per my eVic.

Spot on Mac, I always enjoy reading this thread.

Thanks Tex, we're putting up the road signs here. Hope it helps.

Good luck.

 

[sagamore]

(I apologize if this was mentioned earlier, and I somehow missed it.)

Has anyone considered compiling these results in some kind of wiki page? I would be happy to help get a guide put together.

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk

 

[MacTechVpr]

(I apologize if this was mentioned earlier, and I somehow missed it.)

Has anyone considered compiling these results in some kind of wiki page? I would be happy to help get a guide put together.

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk

I started compiling this stat almost six months ago. I have more figures but I have to return to those builds to validate and post them. I normally don't post results until I've hit a resistance target for a wind on at least two builds, preferably three using the same parameters and methods. Currently there are two wind types, forming (a typical hand wind compressed by torching and a tension wind which has been a topic of wider discussion on the forum recently.

If I can validate (duplicate) your build, I would be pleased to include any result you'd be gracious enough to share that meets this criteria.

If you need help I'd be happy to try. Like to concentrate on one build for starters, just post your questions here or PM me.

Good luck.

 

[LReyes66]

So I made a 1.8ohm microcoil with 30g kanthal but I'm still getting gurgling/flooding and the jucie comes up the tip. Suggestions?

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk

 

[LReyes66]

Actually nvm. Filling up the tank all the way fixed it. Was just a vacuum issue

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[MacTechVpr]

Actually nvm. Filling up the tank all the way fixed it. Was just a vacuum issue

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk

Thanks for that feedback LR.

In a KPT the 510 grommet is a sieve. Vacuum must be spot on relative to the volume/saturation cap of the wick or it's a strainer right into the base. I've had success with the techniques on this and Metalhed's threads of simple but disciplined symmetrical installation. It helps keep the shorts under control (and the poor vaporization which results in flooding). And I try to always refill the KPT at about 40%. Recently though I've found this to be not as crucial.

I've been testing two other options which help greatly. The first using the juice channels. Filling them with wicking material does help to limit moisture bypassing the flange. Amazingly, the Aero base. The improved air flow in both instances and particularly combined helps tremendously to keep moisture where it needs to be.

And I challenge my personal and test clearo's LR from very low to high wattage, and at all battery levels. With mech's, variables and the kick.

While I've had a love/hate relationship with the KPT, I'm now gaining a newfound respect for its performance and potential for both flavor and vapor.

Good luck LR.

 

[Alter]

So I made a 1.8ohm microcoil with 30g kanthal but I'm still getting gurgling/flooding and the jucie comes up the tip. Suggestions?

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk

IMO the juice that comes up the tip is from the splattering of the more powerful microcoil and along with pulling a bit hard before the coil has the chance to heat up completely. I use a 1mm silica flavor wick in all my builds and don't have the juice film in my mouth anymore from splattering. Cotton as wicking it shouldn't flood unless you have the coil too low in the head.
Using something other than cotton like silica or ekowool, its very difficult to thread it into the coil. I have a alternative that works great is that I unbraided my ekowool into single strands. I fished several strands through the coil with a bead threader and now I have the dryburn ability of the ekowool and easy replacement like cotton. I didn't boil or torch my ekowool cause once you torch it, it becomes crispy and harder to work with and it still tasted fine, I'm not sure about untorched silica since I have miles of ekowool around and only use silica as flavor wicks

 

[M_DuBb716]

I've been having a problem that I hope you guys can help me with - hangers.. Tiny little pieces of wire hanging out the bottom of my coil-head, have really been messing with my resistance readings..

I always usually twist the leads off, it seems like this is the best way to get those legs as close as possible. I've tried wire cutters and nail-clippers, but everytime I use these to snip the wires, I can visibly see them sticking out slightly. But lately even when I twist them off, I can still see a little wire poking out, and it messes up my build. What should I do to get them closer??
... Also, I noticed: if I twist the pin and grommet at the bottom of the coil-head, my microcoil rotates inside the cup too.

 

[madLyfe]

I've been having a problem that I hope you guys can help me with - hangers.. Tiny little pieces of wire hanging out the bottom of my coil-head, have really been messing with my resistance readings..

I always usually twist the leads off, it seems like this is the best way to get those legs as close as possible. I've tried wire cutters and nail-clippers, but everytime I use these to snip the wires, I can visibly see them sticking out slightly. But lately even when I twist them off, I can still see a little wire poking out, and it messes up my build. What should I do to get them closer??
... Also, I noticed: if I twist the pin and grommet at the bottom of the coil-head, my microcoil rotates inside the cup too.

as close as you can get with nail clippers should be enough. and if you keep whatever you used to wrap the coil on, in the coil, and in the wicking slots it wont move while you are doing all that messing around with the legs and the pin/grommet.. once you have that set, go back up to the coil and adjust with tweezers or whatever to where it need to be..

 

[beckdg]

1) i use a pair of toe nail clippers to pinch up to the grommet before the wiggle and snap to pre-determine where it snaps and minimize movement and deformation. surely some precision wire cutters with a tapered, pointed tip could do the same. i just use the tip to maneuver the grommet out of the way while pinching the kanthal so as not to cut the grommet as well.

what i use is similar to this...

2) don't twist the base/pin once everything's where you want it.

 

[chapeltown]

Alright ladies and gentlemen ....you can call me Forrest. Forrest Gump. In between doing other things....I have been wrapping coils all day searching for vaping Nirvana. As you can see from the photo, I have gone from 20 gauge blunt needles all the way down to 14. I have varies my number of wraps. The last one, 8/9 wraps on a 14 gauge needle, which gave me 1.45 ohms naked. I was excited!!! So I went ahead and wicked it, primed it, posted it, and put it back on the ohm meter.......?! Put it on my itaste vv...0.0 ohms. Why???!? How did this happen? And please.....Don't explain it to me in millimeters of sillica and all that stuff. I need a). Drill bit size...b). Number of wraps for 28 gauge kanthal to get 1.8-2.4 ohms resistance...and how many strands of peaches and cream yarn...seriously. If I can't get my head around this....I will give up and go back to buying crap factory coils.

sent from an undisclosed location on a secret device.

 

[MacTechVpr]

I've been having a problem that I hope you guys can help me with - hangers... Also, I noticed: if I twist the pin and grommet at the bottom of the coil-head, my microcoil rotates inside the cup too.

I'm with mad on localization technique…the better and tighter adhered to the less likelihood of a problem. And I'm with Beck on the solution, the toenail clipper's about the tightest sheer to the edge you can get. Hanger's unfortunately are the bain of our existence until something better than a 510 shows up. Until then...

I must admit that here's where tension can be a bit of a problem. And I'm doing less and less twisting off, no matter how clean it may seem. Because it's often not. So there's a quandary. Cut and assume always that there may be a problem. Take care to address it as you finish every build. Or twist and take a chance. With tension I've twisted and had wire snap back in and leave an intermittent short connection doubling as a hanger with varying resistance. And yes, hangers you can't see. Want to talk about screwin' with your head. So I'm with Beck here. Tight is clean and assume it never is, until it is.

So every build, anything not a solid consistent res return from carto-meter, to burn on device and tank installed first fire…if there's any variation in res…the hanger check and trim.

Beats wetting your pants.

Good luck m.

 

[madLyfe]

Alright ladies and gentlemen ....you can call me Forrest. Forrest Gump. In between doing other things....I have been wrapping coils all day searching for vaping Nirvana. As you can see from the photo, I have gone from 20 gauge blunt needles all the way down to 14. I have varies my number of wraps. The last one, 8/9 wraps on a 14 gauge needle, which gave me 1.45 ohms naked. I was excited!!! So I went ahead and wicked it, primed it, posted it, and put it back on the ohm meter.......?! Put it on my itaste vv...0.0 ohms. Why???!? How did this happen? And please.....Don't explain it to me in millimeters of sillica and all that stuff. I need a). Drill bit size...b). Number of wraps for 28 gauge kanthal to get 1.8-2.4 ohms resistance...and how many strands of peaches and cream yarn...seriously. If I can't get my head around this....I will give up and go back to buying crap factory coils.

sent from an undisclosed location on a secret device.

every time i have a short, its ALWAYS my legs when i can clearly see its not the coil.. those things have to be straight and i like to make sure they are on the same side when i put in the pin to the rubber grommet so there is little chance of the leg going down the center of the grommet to touch any metal.. even then i still get a short sometimes.. life of a pt rebuilder..