I braid leather (dog leashes) and customers can tell leads I braided and those others braided. Even tension, tight braids to not only look better but make them stronger. So I related to this when I first joined this great thread.
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Taf great to see ya back. We got a great crew and yeah a lot's gone down. But tension still works!
Give a shout if ya need a thing.
Good luck.
Oh yeah, tension works. Learned it here. Even though proper wicking is equally as important as coil symmetry you can't reach the full potential of any atty without both.
Mornin cig. Lifted this from my post at Subtank/Mini coil surface accretion, scaling...
I went back to my mini after a successful build on my Magma today and still can't seem to get a build rigĥt on my mini. I think I may stick to the OCC coils at the 1.2Ohm for now, but even that is still a little warm for my liking.Maybe I'll have to sit down with someone and figure it out.
Some good observations there P. You get gunk as you know from experience with a loose electrical connection. Nothing will sour your vape faster. So when a wind does that you know that it's come from over-heating. The venting of radiant energy to the liquid at the winds surface, evaporating some, diffusing it all. Not exactly where we want it to go.
It's best when we can build to match the wick to the wire and flow (both air and liquid).
Yes, these new coils are about some of the best factory coils I've seen. They're designed to target sub-Ω and produce a lot of vapor. And with vapor production comes a lot of flavor. But there is a lot of radiant diffusion of that vapor which makes the resulting texture feel dry and taste somewhat muted and warm, really warm. The downside is, the more you vaporize the more you gunk. Can't avoid that.
I prefer to target more dense vaporization at lower temperatures and to combine the effects of draw style, airflow and drip tip selection as the means to diffuse the resulting vapor. You can generate dense full clouds, create expansion and most of all max out the best taste results for you with these techniques. But the main job of the wind, the important part, is converting as much juice flow for the energy punch.
Short of that it's a great effect. But back at the barn we gotta enjoy the vape.
I'm with ya on the stock 1.2Ω at higher wattage, as much as I like the low side. Better density there.
Good luck P.
p.s. brook on the ProtankMicro thread did a straightforward tensioned 29AWG build for the RBA which seemed to work quite well for the center performance range of the Mini (15-20W). Haven't tried it yet but maybe you could and give us a confirmation.
I think you'll like the Mega Mac but it's stiill a kanger tank with built-in limitations (grommet). One thing I have noticed however, and suspected, is that the flow of juice is more consistent with greater dia:height ratio tanks. More air above the juice ensures less flow change each time a bubble rises to the top. Mini tanks that are smaller dia, and tall, can change from dry hit to flooded condition quite rapidly. Not so much with the Mega.
I have successfully vaped the Mega w/.9 ohms single for a week now but have to reverse puff it frequently to releave neg tank pressure enough to keep juice supply up for the monster coil.
Next Mega build will be 29awg crossed dual coil tmc netting around .9 ohms. This way each coil will only be responsible for half of the total wattage. Hoping the juice flow can then keep up at around 10 watts per coil. Should be dynamite on a mech mod or high wattage apv.
My how time flies and change comes. Seems like yesterday I took a respite from high power devices to look at more recent Kanger additions. And it's been one after the other.
One of the most interesting surprises is just how well the Protank Mega can work with a decent coil in it. Once, you've added the v3 (slit multi-hole) airflow base. It's not that it adds substantially more airflow as you pointed out. It's limited by the 510 pin diameter. It's how it goes about it. Changes to the base internal design and atomizer seating have continued apace right through the SubMini. In the v3 I was shocked to discover that it can stay almost as bone dry as either of the Sub's with the OCC. Now that is a surprise. A bit of conjecture here but I do believe they have certainly improved threading and seating. They've also apparently slightly elevated the coil-to-pin contact position keeping it above any incidental seepage which now seems relegated to the sides of the base..
Plentiful economical availability is meaningful to the many new vapers who continue to encounter the Protank. They stand to remain in the supply chain for a while. There's also a great installed base of users that will continue to expand for a time. Many will choose to stay and enjoy the lower end of the wattage spectrum, less than 15W. And this is the ideal playground for the tensioned microcoil.
So for beginner and intermediate vapers looking to step up to rebuilding, don't overlook the Mega. There are some great bargains to be had. It's a great flavor mouth-to-lung machine with decent density and using t.m.c.'s a moderate vapor producer if you build it right. The dual-coil 19-turn twisted center post is not a simple build. But I'll be trying out some twisted lead parallels (above) in the Mega which are far and away easier once you have a tensioned wind under your belt. Given how they've produced on the Sub Mini I'd bet they'll shine in the Mega. And of course, your dual strand twisties will work nicely as well.
You know the drill those just landing here. Hail us with your questions if you need a hand.
Good luck all.
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I was looking at Pbursado tour of the Kanger plant and I saw something that Im going to try to get my hubby to build for me. It showed the girl assembling the Protank coils and she had like a vice grip stand that she would place the head in after she threaded the wire through.
This held it in place while she put in the insulators and the metal pin. I def could use something like this! This would give you that third hand that many of us need when rebuilding! LOL
This held it in place while she put in the insulators and the metal pin. I def could use something like this! This would give you that third hand that many of us need when rebuilding! LOL
Coca you are one observant and intelligent bird. Has no one figured out that Kanger is using the very same precise assembly processes introduced and featured on this very thread since the Fall of 2013 in their factory to construct the OCC. No producer in China was employing such comprehensive techniques of assembly, localization and termination to a specific metric then.
And no one is mentioning it now, not even PV or TVG.
But very astute of you coca to notice, that they are, even as some aren't.
Thanks.
Good luck.
p.s. Coca you're right that you would need a jig as the lower assembly has no slot. It would help, but it could be delicately done as is without one. But more difficult for beginners. Localization is described earlier in this thread and on Protank Cotton Rebuild, the way I do it. The problem isn't merely localization with this design; it's that they've purposely planned for a large wind/wick diameter. The scheme calls for an internal seal of the juice entry ports with a substantial cotton wick. Insertion of the chuncky wick and wind would be accomplished from the bottom with wick ends folding downwards covering the juice ports. This would seem to make the assembly less useful to those attempting to rebuild to target for say greater density or faster flow rates among other things. You must use a coil Ø large enough for such a wick. That has significant implications for resistance choices. However, something seems to tell me you're up to the task. And there might be some benefits to testing alternatives as I understand that the OCC chimney may provide more airflow than the RBA. I guess we're lucky to have the RBA (for now).
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I have no probs rebuilding the occ. The cap comes off easily. Wind a 2.5-3mm dia coil, insert it from the top and set it with no tension using the largest bit that will fit thru the juice holes for localization. Chunky wick it and cut the tails 1/8" outside the head. Poke the wick back through the holes in four directions so it butts up against the inside wall of the head around the holes to seal things off. To reinstall the cap pinch it down with pliers at each corner until it seats down all the way.
Vape at 25w. Doesn't matter if the coil is set a little crooked or tilted. Less tweaking, more vaping. Great design.
A few notes:
You must exit the legs from the bottom of coil, not off the sides, and set your coil legs at 6 & 12 o'clock lined up with the tiny grooves at the mouth of the head or the insulator will split.
28awg max or the insulator will split.
You don't have to remove the top cap if your coil is narrower than the opening in the head; if it is wider the top cap can be removed with a simple twisting pulling motion using pliers.
This head couldn't be easier to rebuild imo unless it had screws and posts; but then it would be an rba....lol.....love this head design!!
Good luck
Vape at 25w. Doesn't matter if the coil is set a little crooked or tilted. Less tweaking, more vaping. Great design.
A few notes:
You must exit the legs from the bottom of coil, not off the sides, and set your coil legs at 6 & 12 o'clock lined up with the tiny grooves at the mouth of the head or the insulator will split.
28awg max or the insulator will split.
You don't have to remove the top cap if your coil is narrower than the opening in the head; if it is wider the top cap can be removed with a simple twisting pulling motion using pliers.
This head couldn't be easier to rebuild imo unless it had screws and posts; but then it would be an rba....lol.....love this head design!!
Good luck
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MacTechVpr, I'm getting about 24hrs heavy use from a coil/wick in the rba. Not burning the wick....when it works, it's excellent. It's gunking up as seen in the pic, then loses flavour... tastes near burnt.
How to stop the gunking up? Between 14-18w usually. Max vg. 3mg It's my adv, not interested in changing juice. Is there any adjustment I could make to make it last longer? If not, then that's cool...it's a fantastic 24 hrs of use. lol. I end up cleaning the coils for re-use and rewick.
Thanks for the post bro. Appreciate the pic. Best advice I could give as you install and oxidize the coil
° Try to keep the coil on the bit it was wound;
° Rake or very gently run a light screwdriver or pin across the coils;
(This spreads the coil slightly and if not in good contact due to spreading may help spring them back into a better tighter geometry. Sometimes they get skewed or spread as tension is passed on into the wind as we pull on the leads during installation.)
° Use very gradual short rather than longer pulses starting with lower then moderate voltage;
(Oxidation is a process and will possibly be compromised or not happen at all completely if too hot too fast.)
° Induce a slight lighting from the center and proceed slowly until you see a uniform color at the surface end-to-end;
(You do not need to do dry fires until it's white hot. Usually you can step pulse to a uniform red color that fires identically every time and that's enough. Fire once only lighting to yellow thereafter and you're done. That's to ensure you don't have a hot spot anywhere.
If at any point the coil disfigures or changes color just toss it. You'll spend far less time getting it right with a coil that's intact.
However, I strongly recommend a ceramic tweezers. These are useful for correcting smaller cooler (dark) spots that may be visible. These imperfections may be inherent to the wire or induced by small changes in tension applied during the wire. Same thing applies if they don't immediately resolve with a very light squeeze and pulse, just ditch it. You'll be happier.
Now, in practical terms we don't always have the luxury of that kind of time. If your coil is almost perfect and you've got a gap you can kill with a regular tweezer after the fire. Try hitting it. It's you're vape. Maybe the juice you want will let you get away with it.
Unresolved imperfections are like the loose connection. They will make the vape hot, lower actual vaporization, increase dry diffusion. In general just make for a bad vape.
This is what a proper electrical wind cures. Make a few coils. Toss those that don't cut the mustard. Keep your standards high.
It's your vaping enjoyment after all.
Good luck all.
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Thanks for the post bro. Appreciate the pic. Best advice I could give as you install and oxidize the coil…
° Try to keep the coil on the bit it was wound;
° Rake or very gently run a light screwdriver or pin across the coils;
(This spreads the coil slightly and if not in good contact due to spreading may help spring them back into a better tighter geometry. Sometimes they get skewed or spread as tension is passed on into the wind as we pull on the leads during installation.)
° Use very gradual short rather than longer pulses starting with lower then moderate voltage;
(Oxidation is a process and will possibly be compromised or not happen at all completely if too hot too fast.)
° Induce a slight lighting from the center and proceed slowly until you see a uniform color at the surface end-to-end;
(You do not need to do dry fires until it's white hot. Usually you can step pulse to a uniform red color that fires identically every time and that's enough. Fire once only lighting to yellow thereafter and you're done. That's to ensure you don't have a hot spot anywhere.
If at any point the coil disfigures or changes color just toss it. You'll spend far less time getting it right with a coil that's intact.
However, I strongly recommend a ceramic tweezers. These are useful for correcting smaller cooler (dark) spots that may be visible. These imperfections may be inherent to the wire or induced by small changes in tension applied during the wire. Same thing applies if they don't immediately resolve with a very light squeeze and pulse, just ditch it. You'll be happier.
Now, in practical terms we don't always have the luxury of that kind of time. If your coil is almost perfect and you've got a gap you can kill with a regular tweezer after the fire. Try hitting it. It's you're vape. Maybe the juice you want will let you get away with it.
Unresolved imperfections are like the loose connection. They will make the vape hot, lower actual vaporization, increase dry diffusion. In general just make for a bad vape.
This is what a proper electrical wind cures. Make a few coils. Toss those that don't cut the mustard. Keep your standards high.
It's your vaping enjoyment after all.
Good luck all.
These are great tips, thank you!
I'll be back for more tips when my pin vise arrives and I can really get started. Excited to learn how to make these tensioned microcoils!
Thanks for joining us (finally) Mia.
Four steps for t.m.c.'s covered here on this thread: tension winding, de-winding, the set (or stabilized installation) and pulsing (oxidation).
Just hail us if you need us.
Good luck Mia.
Hi Mia! For some reason I thought you already rebuilt Pro-tanks coils?
Hi Sue! No, never. I don't even own a Pro-tank. I have a Reo. That's why I never knew this thread would be helpful to me. But if I can learn to build t.m.c.'s for my Reo and get a better vape, I'm all for it! I got a recommended pin-vise and it's on the way, and I've been trying to find the information I need on this thread but it's a lot to go through, and I get lost and forget what I was trying to find out in the first place!
Maz has been helping me as much as he can. He sent me here, and so here I am. I've been reading here every day. Videos help most! I need a step by step video for t.m.c.'s using a pin vise.
Hi Mia! I also didn't realize you were not already rebuilding. I do still use primarily cheap protank type toppers because I find them easiest with all the travel I do but thanks to the folks here, especially Mac and cigatron, I can get a great vape from them! Don't get overwhelmed and if you have questions just ask! No stupid questions here, no intimidation, just great answers to whatever the question. Welcome!
Thanks Cathy. Looks like I have friends here!
I actually can build, I build like crazy. I just never learned about t.m.c. building, and that's going to change soon! I'll have all kinds of questions soon as I get my paws on that pin vise, I'm sure.
I actually can build, I build like crazy. I just never learned about t.m.c. building, and that's going to change soon! I'll have all kinds of questions soon as I get my paws on that pin vise, I'm sure.
Mia, you came to right place to make friends......oh yeah, and learn about tension too. Hehe.
Lots of peeps here to help. A knowledgeable and willing cast not limited to protank advice. Have fun and welcome
Lots of peeps here to help. A knowledgeable and willing cast not limited to protank advice. Have fun and welcome
Good to see you here Mia !
I am a good number of pages behind myself
.... Will catch up real soon
p.s. I know there has been a lot of discussion on the sub-tank recently and thought it would be cool for you to see where they are produced ( about the 28 minute mark ) :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CP_45eOnaH4
Apologies if it has already been posted
I am a good number of pages behind myself
.... Will catch up real soonp.s. I know there has been a lot of discussion on the sub-tank recently and thought it would be cool for you to see where they are produced ( about the 28 minute mark ) :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CP_45eOnaH4
Apologies if it has already been posted
Yes you do build and you are the one to introduce me to twisted wire! I did buy a Pin Vise but it has been collecting dust since I got my handy dandy Cigamajig. You gotta hang around for awhile before you get the Top Secret info on that guy though
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