Provaping verse Antivaping

[Bad Ninja]

The follow the money trail can be of some use in determining potential bias, but plenty of peer reviewed work is published out of research funded by non-profits. Same with peer reviewed work published whose research was conducted with funding from drug companies. Which is why most mainstream journals these days require and publish as part of the paper both funding sources and potential conflicts of interest of the authors.

Even a blind squirrel finds a nut.


Most non-profit studies always tend to support the funding organization's ideals. Funny coincidence isn't it?
Mixing politics and science taints it.

Once reviewed, published in a legit journal, and acepted by professional peers, I'll bite.

Research pubished in a blog online doesn't cut it.

 

[Bad Ninja]

As much help as reposting the pictures of the fools who blew their fingers and faces off. Sudo-Science is worse than helping the pictures of the explosions go viral. Education should be from certified and substantiated sources............

I agree.
However censorship isnt the answer.
It's never the answer.
Education is.

 

[DPLongo22]

Diacetyl-free, I presume, DPL?

Pass me a bowl of the good stuff, please.

Si, cara mia.

 

[Eskie]

Even a blind squirrel finds a nut.


Most non-profit studies always tend to support the funding organization's ideals. Funny coincidence isn't it?
Mixing politics and science taints it.

Once reviewed, published in a legit journal, and acepted by professional peers, I'll bite.

Research pubished in a blog online doesn't cut it.

No argument from me about some blog representing scientific data. That stuff is useless at best and misleading , well not the worst, outright lying would take that spot. But painting all non profits with the brush of bias really isn't fair to groups like The Lupus Foundation, Arthritis Foundation, Breastcancer.org, or Rare Genes which is focused on rare diseases, and so many more willing to raise funds to search for the understanding and treatment of so many diseases. Federal funds from sources like the NIH do drive a good amount of research in academic settings, but far from all of it.

Is every non profit legit? Of course not. But given the need for funding for research in academic settings, you go with whatever grant applications you file that get funded, although you should perform due diligence on who you accept funding from.

 

[Bad Ninja]

No argument from me about some blog representing scientific data. That stuff is useless at best and misleading , well not the worst, outright lying would take that spot. But painting all non profits with the brush of bias really isn't fair to groups like The Lupus Foundation, Arthritis Foundation, Breastcancer.org, or Rare Genes which is focused on rare diseases, and so many more willing to raise funds to search for the understanding and treatment of so many diseases. Federal funds from sources like the NIH do drive a good amount of research in academic settings, but far from all of it.

Is every non profit legit? Of course not. But given the need for funding for research in academic settings, you go with whatever grant applications you file that get funded, although you should perform due diligence on who you accept funding from.

I shouldn't have generalized.
There probably is a non profit somewhere that doesnt pocket 80% of their donations, operate as a tax shelter, and launder money through research groups and commitees.

Im not aware of any, as most are founded for that exact sole reason, but I'm willing to give ya the benefit of doubt.

 

[AXIOM_1]

There probably is a non profit somewhere that doesnt pocket 80% of their donations, operate as a tax shelter, and launder money through research groups and commitees.

lol ... Pessimism can be good

 

[Eskie]

I shouldn't have generalized.
There probably is a non profit somewhere that doesnt pocket 80% of their donations, operate as a tax shelter, and launder money through research groups and commitees.

Im not aware of any, as most are founded for that exact sole reason, but I'm willing to give ya the benefit of doubt.

For real, there are a good number out there. The ones you're talking about are scams and couldn't give a crap about whatever "cause" they claim to care about. And there are enough scam charities out there that make it difficult for the legitimate ones raise donations that really do go where they should. Crappy world, but it is what it is.

 

[Eskie]

lol ... Pessimism can be good

At least a pessimist is never disappointed.

 

[AXIOM_1]

Crappy world, but it is what it is.

In the words of one of the top executives in a top Company .... "The problem with the world is that is has people in it"

 

[AXIOM_1]

At least a pessimist is never disappointed.

lol

 

[Tonee N]

"The world seems to have gotten smaller, nope it's the same world there's just more in it." PofC

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G891A using Tapatalk

 

[DPLongo22]

In the words of one of the top executives in a top Company .... "The problem with the world is that is has people in it"

 

[zoiDman]

As much help as reposting the pictures of the fools who blew their fingers and faces off. Sudo-Science is worse than helping the pictures of the explosions go viral. Education should be from certified and substantiated sources............

You seem kinda Tense steve. What with all this talk of Censorship. And the Restriction of Information. Maybe you should get Off the Net and spend a night Relaxing with a Good Book?

Here's one I think you would like...

https://www.amazon.com/1984-George-...1499384989&sr=1-1&keywords=george+orwell+1984

 

[motordude]

You seem kinda Tense steve. What with all this talk of Censorship. And the Restriction of Information. Maybe you should get Off the Net and spend a night Relaxing with a Good Book?

Here's one I think you would like...

https://www.amazon.com/1984-George-...1499384989&sr=1-1&keywords=george+orwell+1984

Perfect!!!

 

[WillieB69]

New Hampshire's state motto is, "Live free or die!"

Idaho's state motto is, "Famous potatoes."

Somewhere between these two extremes, the truth lies....... And it's probably closer to, "Famous potatoes."

-George Carlin

 

[DeAnna2112]

Wow i didn't know what to expect of my post response wise, but i am glad to hear i am not the only one questioning either side of research. I just know i feel better. Doesn't mean there won't be findings in the long term effects though. I feel like in the short term i have nothing worry about, but in the long term that is still unknown territory. That's the million dollar question yet to be answered, least for me. Gotta remember, it took years of smoking before we felt the effects of smoking...many years. Again it's the million dollar question about vaping...long term use.

 

[Tonee N]

But you need a million dollars to get the answer.[emoji6]

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G891A using Tapatalk

 

[DPLongo22]

"

Idaho's state motto is, "Famous potatoes."

Which, coincidentally enough, also just happens to be the largest contributing source of teen nicotine use these days. That's a lotta Mickey D's fries.

 

[Katdarling]

Wow i didn't know what to expect of my post response wise, but i am glad to hear i am not the only one questioning either side of research. I just know i feel better. Doesn't mean there won't be findings in the long term effects though. I feel like in the short term i have nothing worry about, but in the long term that is still unknown territory. That's the million dollar question yet to be answered, least for me. Gotta remember, it took years of smoking before we felt the effects of smoking...many years. Again it's the million dollar question about vaping...long term use.

As do I (feel better, lots better). I can NOT say the same for smoking. I never felt better. I continually felt worse and saw all the signs.

There certainly may be long term findings that I won't wish to know/see, but meanwhile, I'll listen to the most highly respected expert I know: my body.

And she says, vape 'em if ya got 'em.

 

[Stubby]

That being said, tobacco has been studied extensively and found to be harmful, and since vapes use a tobacco biproduct, they should be subject to the *exact same standard* which is do it if you WANT to, here are the known and unknown risks, etc. THAT is how vaping should be approached. I'm not going to get any more into politics than to say that a grown adult should be allowed to vape, regardless of whether they smoked, because smoking remains *an option* despite MANY known risks, so why be hypocritical regarding vaping?

If you start out with bad directions there isn't much hope of finding your way.

A wee little fact that might help, tobacco hasn't been found to be harmful (though inhaling smoke certainly is). When vaping first appeared, the reason it was thought to be less harmful then cigarettes was because of the large amounts of research on smokeless tobacco that showed little to no harm. Because of that research it was already known what causes diseases, and it is inhaling the smoke. Without combustion population studies in Sweden and the US on smokeless tobacco have found no discernible difference in risk between non-tobacco users and ST users.

Since vaping does not involve combustion, unless something else is at play (nothing found yet) it has to be assumed that vaping is dramatically less harmful then cigarettes. Your equation that tobacco = harm is false. Everything else that follows is going to have problems.

Most people who vape are wildly overestimating the risk. Even the 95% number commonly thrown around is a gross miscalculation based on some pretty shaky estimates. There already is a lot of research out there that tells us it is the products from inhaling burning tobacco that is the cause of essentially all the diseases associated with tobacco. Since vaping has none of those, just what is it that is going to cause problems. So far nothing is showing up, and looking at what is known it seems very likely nothing will.