PS USBPass Died

[Gibby]

<Sigh>

Sure, the response he received was 'technically adequate', I suppose. But knowing that he obviously wants to get his PT working again, offering a solution of some sort would be much better customer service.

Nothing throws off the balance of a loyal customer more than a standardized response used to convey a practical 'roadblock'. Take the extra step and make a suggestion that offers a proposed solution. It can make a huge difference in the way your customers perceive you in the short and long term.

Just my take.

Sure, but from a business standpoint, its a 70 dollar peice of equipment (considering the replacement will be 70 bucks, even though its not the exact same item), its not like they make millions and have a support staff of people that only handle repairs, it would probably cost as much for them to process the ticket, receive the item, repair the item, send the item back out, as it would for a whole new product. If not as much probably close.

I could be totally off here, but i can imagine the above statement being somewhat accurate.

Gibby

 

[markarich159]

Sure, but from a business standpoint, its a 70 dollar peice of equipment (considering the replacement will be 70 bucks, even though its not the exact same item), its not like they make millions and have a support staff of people that only handle repairs, it would probably cost as much for them to process the ticket, receive the item, repair the item, send the item back out, as it would for a whole new product. If not as much probably close.

I could be totally off here, but i can imagine the above statement being somewhat accurate.

Gibby

So basically what you're saying is, if your $130 Prodigy V1 poops out after 6-1/2 months or your $40/$70 USBPass poops out after 3-1/2months, or your $115 Protege poops out after 6-1/2 months(or any other mod from any other mod supplier for that matter); you just have to bite the bullet and order another one at full retail price???
When this would happen to my old Joye 510 batteries/atty's after 2-3 months, I would just go out and buy another(but it was only a $10 loss and it WAS expected).
My perception of the mods I own(Prodigy and USBPass included) was that these weren't "disposable" items like the stock Chinese cheapo stuff. I actually intended to have my prodigy V1 and PS USBPass(and , again, all my other commercially purchased mods) for a long, long time(at least a few years) before possibly needing to purchase replacements.
Having no reasonable repair service, post warranty, would preclude this and I, and everybody else, might as well go back to buying the disposable, cheapo Chinese stuff.
I kind of see the logic in your statement Gibby, but I certainly hope it is not correct, not just for my sake but for everyone's; who has ever purchased a commercially available mod; sake. I certainly would much rather support a small , US business then a faceless Chinese entity, but that allegiance and support has to go both ways.(and "sorry, warranty's over, gotta buy a new one for another $100 plus" doesn't cut it)
Let's face it sooner or later most, if not every, Mod customer is going to be in the OP's situation, $100 plus dollar non-functioning mod(they can't fix) out of warranty.
If the warranty was two or three years, that's one thing, but 6 months is another.
Don't get me wrong I LOVE my Puresmoker Products, I just didn't envision possibly having to buy full retail replacements so quickly.

 

[mpetva]

So basically what you're saying is, if your $130 Prodigy V1 poops out after 6-1/2 months or your $40/$70 USBPass poops out after 3-1/2months, or your $115 Protege poops out after 6-1/2 months(or any other mod from any other mod supplier for that matter); you just have to bite the bullet and order another one at full retail price???
When this would happen to my old Joye 510 batteries/atty's after 2-3 months, I would just go out and buy another(but it was only a $10 loss and it WAS expected).
My perception of the mods I own(Prodigy and USBPass included) was that these weren't "disposable" items like the stock Chinese cheapo stuff. I actually intended to have my prodigy V1 and PS USBPass(and , again, all my other commercially purchased mods) for a long, long time(at least a few years) before possibly needing to purchase replacements.
Having no reasonable repair service, post warranty, would preclude this and I, and everybody else, might as well go back to buying the disposable, cheapo Chinese stuff.
I kind of see the logic in your statement Gibby, but I certainly hope it is not correct, not just for my sake but for everyone's; who has ever purchased a commercially available mod; sake. I certainly would much rather support a small , US business then a faceless Chinese entity, but that allegiance and support has to go both ways.(and "sorry, warranty's over, gotta buy a new one for another $100 plus" doesn't cut it)
Let's face it sooner or later most, if not every, Mod customer is going to be in the OP's situation, $100 plus dollar non-functioning mod(they can't fix) out of warranty.
If the warranty was two or three years, that's one thing, but 6 months is another.
Don't get me wrong I LOVE my Puresmoker Products, I just didn't envision possibly having to buy full retail replacements so quickly.

I agree with you 100%....I would sure hope that one could get paid warranty service once the original warranty expired. I have the PS PT plus 3 of the (not cheap either) adapters plus a Protege and 1 adapter which would be garbage if I could not get either repaired...
When I made my purchase, I just assumed that once out of reg warranty I could pay to have it fixed at a reasonable price... I sure hope that is the case!

 

[JamieJ]

thanks for bringing these questions up! I too love my PS products and really since my first mods have become dependent upon these ordered 2 new PS passthroughs but do so for the quality construction and good customer service I have been willing to pay more for this. Thanks for asking these questions I will be watching for the answers.

 

[Gibby]

So basically what you're saying is, if your $130 Prodigy V1 poops out after 6-1/2 months or your $40/$70 USBPass poops out after 3-1/2months, or your $115 Protege poops out after 6-1/2 months(or any other mod from any other mod supplier for that matter); you just have to bite the bullet and order another one at full retail price???
When this would happen to my old Joye 510 batteries/atty's after 2-3 months, I would just go out and buy another(but it was only a $10 loss and it WAS expected).
My perception of the mods I own(Prodigy and USBPass included) was that these weren't "disposable" items like the stock Chinese cheapo stuff. I actually intended to have my prodigy V1 and PS USBPass(and , again, all my other commercially purchased mods) for a long, long time(at least a few years) before possibly needing to purchase replacements.
Having no reasonable repair service, post warranty, would preclude this and I, and everybody else, might as well go back to buying the disposable, cheapo Chinese stuff.
I kind of see the logic in your statement Gibby, but I certainly hope it is not correct, not just for my sake but for everyone's; who has ever purchased a commercially available mod; sake. I certainly would much rather support a small , US business then a faceless Chinese entity, but that allegiance and support has to go both ways.(and "sorry, warranty's over, gotta buy a new one for another $100 plus" doesn't cut it)
Let's face it sooner or later most, if not every, Mod customer is going to be in the OP's situation, $100 plus dollar non-functioning mod(they can't fix) out of warranty.
If the warranty was two or three years, that's one thing, but 6 months is another.
Don't get me wrong I LOVE my Puresmoker Products, I just didn't envision possibly having to buy full retail replacements so quickly.

Well, The protege, prodigy, and whatever else is come out with is a bit different, those are a lot more easily supported, as there all parts are replaceable, and its easy to find the component that is the problem. PT however, its a bit different, if you for some reason, snap that connection, its all or nothing, if you know how to solder, then great, easy fix. If you don't, then, well, its a bit more complex, this is a one of Steve's, by his own admission, higher risk items, and he has even discussed not carrying them anymore for that reason. It looks a lot better, performs a lot better, and lasts a lot longer than any cheapo chinese product. I broke one a while ago, inside warranty, but it was probably my doing, cause i sat on it, jerked it too hard, twisted it the wrong way, etc etc. it happens, the new PT has a lot more resistance to stuff like this.

Maybe i am being too understanding, but i am not swayed, buy more chinese if you don't agree, or maybe he should specifically ask for what he wants, which he didn't in the original ticket.

Other than that, i don't see fault on either side.

Gibby

 

[ChefChris]

There are some serious holes in this companies customer service.
As you can see from my avatar and signature, I am/was a huge Puresmoker fan, but I've begun to lose faith in them as a company.

My mom's prodigy was working intermittently and no amount of disassembling and reassembling would work... So we sent it back, waiting over a week and a half, and got it back with a note that said that nothing was wrong with it and that it tested just fine.
It again stopped working very shortly after, at this point I discovered that her switch assembly wouldn't work in my prodigy either. We sent it back again.
This time, we got a letter saying that once again, they could find nothing wrong with it, and this time Steve says "your atomizer is probably dead, here's 2 free atomizers, it must be something you're doing wrong."
At this point we got a little snippy in our replies, we had just ordered 25 atomizers from Puresmoker only a week or two before all these issues occurred. I own a multi-tester, and I know what a g-d dead atomizer looks like. Did they not look at my order history and the fact that we've spent hundreds of dollars with them?
I have one of your Passthrough's damnit, what do you think I am? A .....? I don't know how to test an atomizer!?!?
Screw you!
2 free atomizers doesn't take away the sting of being treated like an idiot, especially after having sent them a long winded explanation of what was wrong. I even told them that the atomizers worked fine on other devices, did they take this in to account? No.

It seems like they make a point of ignoring whatever you said entirely, because their response to the 3rd failure was "Just be sure that your contact points are always clean and connected, and you should always be good to go!"

Well, sure enough, the switch itself was broken.
I love Casey and Steve... when they're on the forum, because THEN they act like they care. In that ticket system, I've gotten nothing but responses bordering on insulting (and other times copy and pasted) that take 2 days to receive.

I ordered an extra adapter and a bunch of tact switches from Puresmoker, I removed the resistor and replaced the tact switch... what do you know, works PERFECTLY without having to screw with it.
The original tact switch was going, and needed to be pushed down almost to the point of breaking just to see any continuity on the multi-tester...
Steve said he meticulously checked every part... my ...!

You'd think that when somebody has to send something back to you more than once, that perhaps your testing was wrong and the VERY inexpensive parts should just be replaced, which they did in fact need to be.

Puresmoker refused to resolve this for us, so I did it my damn self, warranty be damned...
I'd rather void it than spend ONE more second trying to talk to these people like human beings because they're apparently completely incapable of reciprocating.

The people who built my Prodigy couldn't, or wouldn't fix it properly. Despite the way Steve made it sound in my ticket, a device like this shouldn't stop working because you accidentally turned the adapter 1/1000th of a turn in either direction. It shouldn't fail every 10 minutes and have to be fiddled with to make it work again, and no matter how much testing you do, if this happens to a customer then you need to assume that something is f***ing wrong!!!

It took me 5 minutes with a soldering iron to remove the resistor and solder in the new switch. We have had NO issues since, I could chuck the thing across the room and not have it lose contact. It took a month of sending it back and forth to realize that if you want something done right then you gotta do it yourself.

Thanks for nothing Puresmoker, I fixed something that you refused to.
You talked down to my mom one too many times... she somehow still has faith in you guys and she'll be back for parts... But me? Unless you make some serious changes in your business practices, I will not be a customer ever again.

I too have no idea where the "excellent customer service" comments come from, it's crap.

 

[gjrhine]

It took me 5 minutes with a soldering iron to remove the resistor and solder in the new switch.

What would have happened if you didn't have a soldering iron, don't want a soldering iron, just plain don't want to solder?

 

[ChefChris]

What would have happened if you didn't have a soldering iron, don't want a soldering iron, just plain don't want to solder?

Exactly... I would've been screwed, and if anybody else found themselves in this position they would've been screwed too.

I would have returned it only to get it back in 2 weeks with another letter insinuating that I'm an idiot.

 

[JCC2K9]

Maybe i am being too understanding, but i am not swayed, buy more chinese if you don't agree, or maybe he should specifically ask for what he wants, which he didn't in the original ticket.

I did ask a simple A or B question in my original post and it still remains unanswered from anyone at PS. 3 days and counting.

My original post was in no way questioning the customer service at PS, but as you can see they just don't care. I have a feeling there are more ChefChris's out there. You have to feel bad for him. What happened to the customer is ALWAYS right? I am not asking them to fix it for free, I am asking IF it can be fixed. Need me to be more specific? How much?

At my job we tell the new supervisors "Don't forget where you came from" and I hope that PS follows that rule. They would not be where they are without us and it's time to show ALL of their customers they appreciate our support. I'm happy that they have so many orders that they don't have the time to answer our questions, but they NEED to answer our questions. Hire someone to answer questions if need be. There are plenty of PS fans here who would gladly do it.

 

[ChefChris]

They would not be where they are without us and it's time to show ALL of their customers they appreciate our support..

Exactly, even after ALL of the stuff I've been through with this one specific prodigy, I wouldn't have spoken a single word of it if I had felt like they paid attention to my complaints and didn't outright ignore the things I was trying to tell them.
I really do love their products, their juice is pretty damn good, the 25 atties I bought are awesome and only one or two has died (likely my fault)...

However, this Prodigy issue just gets to me.
Initially I felt bad for sending it back, like I was putting them out of their way... but having my SPECIFIC complaints ignored and being told that maybe I was using a dead atty just ...... me off to no end. I didn't get REALLY mad until I took 5 minutes out of my day (after it being in mail-limbo for a month) to fix it and found that all of the issues disappeared, something PS could have EASILY done the first time I sent it in.
I'm sick of being sent the stupid little checklist of things to check, I get it, I know how the device is supposed to work and I told them that 3 times... but they still talk to me like a novice and act like I'm the one doing something wrong.

To straighten my story, I sent it back twice and then it failed shortly after getting it back and we sent an angry ticket. I took it apart and re-assembled everything and somehow it started working again so we sent an apology letter for getting pissy... but then it continued to fail here and there until it finally just stopped completely, at which point I refused to e-mail them again and just bought some tact switches... knowing that sending it back a 3rd time would be useless and far more time consuming than just fixing it myself.

I have had ZERO issues since removing the resistor and replacing the switch when previously it would stop working at random times all throughout the day, every day, and the switch required a ridiculous amount of pressure to fire up.

That's all the proof I need, don't you dare tell me that I'm doing something wrong.

Also, for the record, the resistor is over-rated. Keep your "sweet spot", 6 volts is just fine.

Sorry for the long winded posts, but I'm just so angry that after all this crap it only took me a few minutes to make all my problems go away.

P.S.
I bought an extra prodigy adapter with the switches, it was dented and the brass was crooked. I had to take a hammer and a socket to it to straighten it out, when I screwed an atty on to it initially it was pointing at a 75 degree angle... some craftsmanship.

 

[CaSHMeRe]

Chris ...

I can definitely understand your frustration. When a product comes back to us for warranty fix ... I literally sit down with the unit and go through it. I test every possible scenario on *why* perhaps it just doesn't work. I then start to rule out issues. I check the switch for voltage leaking, I check the solder joints, end cap, adapters, and even atomizers if they are sent back. I test for continuity through almost everything.

I am still not entirely sure how you feel our customer service is bad though?

Your mother sent her unit back twice to use.

1) Your mother sent back the unit, switch had failed and/or was intermittent. Although I couldn't find an issue, I went ahead and replaced the switch and all working components anyways.

2) The second time she sent it back, I still did not see a single issue with the switch. I tested it for a good 10-15 minutes myself, and didn't have a single misfire, so I will still trying to figure out what the issue may be. When that happened, I happily wrote a letter to your mother explaining what I found and what I felt the issue may be, and that issue may have been atomizers. I then included 2 FREE ATOMIZERS to see if that would help resolve the issue.

After that, I never heard (or Casey never passed along) anything after that. Then I see you disapproval and issues here.

We are more than willing to help out any way we can Chris. A new switch - Not an issue, I do it on a daily basis. What I try to instill within clients is *finding the true culprit* of the issue, thus I felt, perhaps your mother just had a couple bad atomizers, that is why I included a few free ones when I returned the unit to her.

I do honestly try to feel and understand what the client is thinking or what the issue may be. We aren't always successful, but after a nice letter to your mother with free parts, I feel these posts of yours are undeserved and not entirely true.

As far as your adapter is concerned ... Dents do happen, and I apologize for that. I have no issues replacing it for ya bud!

Have faith in us, and we will rectify and turn the situation in to a positive note ...

I apologize and I'm sorry you feel that we may have abandoned you Chris, but that is NOT what we have done. We gave our best efforts on trying to figure out your mothers issue.

-Steve

 

[Casey@PS]

Ok, after talking with Steve, this is what we're going to be putting in place:

We will be offering repairs outside of warranty. The issue with this until this point was that we couldn't think of a good way to charge for repairs since we no longer use PayPal.

We'll be listing an option for purchase on our site under repairs. There will be three price level options for repairs that Steve will post later on today/tomorrow. We'll contact you once we receive your PT and get to assess the issue, and then let you know which price level repair you fall into. Then, you can place your "repair" order, and we'll get things set up for you.

I hope this helps answer your questions and concerns, and again, I do apologize for all of the confusion. Remember that this is the first time we're dealing with this as well.

**Also to Chris- I do apologize for the issues your mother has experienced. I did receive her email once she got the Prodigy back, and then shortly after, she got it working again, so we assumed that the user error had been corrected.

 

[JCC2K9]

I hope this helps answer your questions and concerns, and again, I do apologize for all of the confusion. Remember that this is the first time we're dealing with this as well.

Casey,

With all due respect, the only question you answered was your own on how to charge us for an out of warranty product.

And while I will have to pass on paying more to fix the PT than I did to buy it new, (40 new w/adapter, 37 to fix w/o adapter (includes standard 25 plus shipping both ways)), none of the original post questions I asked were answered. So, I will ask them again.

1) What would be the quickest way to get a new PT?
1a) Pre order one now and wait?
1b) Wait until the protoge pt adapter becomes available?

2) Is it possible to buy a PT without the adapter to keep the cost down?

3) Does the repair come with a new 3 month warranty?

Thanks,

Jerry

 

[ChefChris]

Steve,

I apologize for getting so mad, but I really felt like we did EVERYTHING in our power to explain that yes, in fact, we're quite aware of the problems that can pop up with this type of device and why.
After purchasing a Prodigy a few months ago, I feel like I was forced to get a degree in electrical engineering just so I could keep the thing working...

Both Prodigy's had been working intermittently, my mom's failing more often than mine... I've ultimately decided to remove the resistors from both, which has cured ALL issues that we previously had.
I'm not trying to bust your balls here Steve, I'm certain that up until now you've seen me doing nothing but ranting and raving about your company...
Look at my post history, the last time I mentioned your company before this thread was in DEFENSE of you...
When I say these Prodigy's had issues, I know it to be fact.

It almost seemed like all you had to do was turn the atty or adapter 1/100th of a turn and it would stop working, at which point I'd be forced to check the voltage with and without the adapter on to make sure there was no problems in between, then take the entire thing apart to check the resistor for any obvious burns, etc, then reassemble the thing only to find that it works for a few more minutes and then stops again.

Before any of this happened, logic told me that both devices should have been working just fine. All the threads were clean, we've used nothing but batteries and atomizers from you, we weren't screwing the adapters on too tight... something was just WRONG.

I mean, thanks a lot for the "2 FREE ATOMIZERS" but I truly felt like you ignored some of our more specific complaints in favor of assuming that we just didn't know how to use these devices. I appreciate the freebies, but when your main PV just doesn't work, wtf good are they?

This is what you told us last time it failed, and before we got it working again for a scant 5 minutes:
"I'm sorry that you're having trouble, but the issue has to be something you are doing at this point. I test each piece for at least 10-15 minutes to make sure that everything is functioning properly, and your unit worked flawlessly from the second I popped on the first atomizer. I'm always more than happy to repair anything that comes back into our office, but when there's nothing to repair, there's nothing to repair. The issue has to be the batteries or atomizers you are using. I am sorry that this has been frustrating, but I found nothing wrong with the unit to warrant any repairs. I would never send something back if I found any sort of issue with it."

The Prodigy issues are far less frustrating than the fact that you made a point of telling my mom she was the one doing something wrong after YOUR device failed for the 3rd time.
Hell, I wouldn't be this infuriated if the Prodigy didn't spend a month in limbo before I took only a few minutes out of my day to make it work flawlessly.

I said in my previous posts that we have 25 of your atomizers and 2 of your passthroughs. I'm not sure how you can even begin to assume that our atties were the problem when you could see in our order history that we already had a stockpile of atomizers and two other devices to test them on. To me, the fact that you sent "2 FREE ATOMIZERS" was just an insult.
Your products are *for the most part* awesome, but you came off as incredibly condescending. You called it a "nice" letter, I call it passive aggressive.

These issues took a long time to rear their ugly heads, it's not like we had them from day or even week one. When it started happening to my mom I thought she was doing something wrong. When it started happening to me I just got upset.

I don't need the adapter replaced, it's fixed and I can deal with a dent, I don't want to send anything else back.

You may or may not have any idea just how touchy these things seemed before I performed surgery on the two, I could set the thing down for two seconds and it'd stop working for no logical reason what so ever. All the contacts were clean and touching, solder points were solid, everything *seemed* to test fine on the multi-meter, yet nothing would fire up.
For the love of God... get rid of the resistor or find a better place for it.

Like I said, I removed the resistor from both and replaced the switch and we have had NO issues since, this CAN NOT be my imagination.

And Casey:
It was NEVER "User Error" and by saying so only further insults my intelligence.
You were never informed again because it didn't get fixed the first two times and I, out of frustration, took it in to my own hands (after spending some time learning how it really works) and did what you wouldn't or couldn't do.

I think sending you the device 2 times without any noticeable improvement was giving you more than enough time to rectify the situation.
Give your customers a little more credit for their intelligence, that's all I ask.

 

[CaSHMeRe]

Chris ... I have written all of 3-4 personal letters to clients in 16 months. I don't handle email tickets normally, thus that was my only way to communicate with your mother. Passive Aggressive? You have to be kidding me .... I went above and beyond, and its quite sad that you feel free pieces of equipment an insult.

There is no pleasing you Chris, therefore, there is nothing left to be said. The last information we got from your mother was that the switch was infact working fine with no issues, and that was the last of it.

If you need anything further please PM or email us.

 

[Casey@PS]

Casey,

With all due respect, the only question you answered was your own on how to charge us for an out of warranty product.

And while I will have to pass on paying more to fix the PT than I did to buy it new, (40 new w/adapter, 37 to fix w/o adapter (includes standard 25 plus shipping both ways)), none of the original post questions I asked were answered. So, I will ask them again.

Sorry JCCK9, I thought that the crux of this entire thread was what we will be doing about repairs outside of warranty. I will address your individual questions now.

1) What would be the quickest way to get a new PT?
1a) Pre order one now and wait?

This is likely the best bet unless you want to repair the original unit. Repairs generally take 3-5 business days from the time they arrive at our office.

1b) Wait until the protoge pt adapter becomes available?

Still not a definite timeline on this process.

2) Is it possible to buy a PT without the adapter to keep the cost down?

Steve is not currently offering PTs for sale minus adapters.

3) Does the repair come with a new 3 month warranty?

Repairs come with a 30 day warranty. More details can be found on our website now, where warranty repairs are listed as a purchase option.

 

[Casey@PS]

Chris,

Again, we have come back to this issue. If we cannot re-create the problem, then how are we supposed to fix it? When the unit comes back and fires up perfectly for us, we have to eliminate variables- those variables are

1. The user.
2. The atomizers.
3. The batteries.

That's all there is to it. The unit worked perfectly for Steve. What good would it do us to send back a piece of equipment still broken? It doesn't make any sense for us to send back items that are defective, as that wastes time and money for both us and you.

I'm sorry if you felt that I called your mother a ....., as that was absolutely NEVER my intention or Steve's. Both Steve and I were nothing but polite in our correspondences, and did try our best to ask all the possible questions to figure out what was causing the issue.

I have also added your mother's entire final email (minus personal information of course), as she actually thanked us for our efforts to resolve this situation:

18 days ago (426hrs ago) [10/29/2009 6:22PM] by Customer
MODERATED


Again, if you feel this matter needs further attention, please feel free to send in a ticket, and we can talk more privately.

 

[Synthnadz]

ChefChris: This all seems insanely familiar. Perhaps you'd enjoy reading about my almost-identical Prodigy switch fiasco in this thread:

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/puresmoker/45998-prodigy-stuck-again.html

Your reaction to the customer service side of things is very similar to my own.

...D

 

[Gibby]

Crazy question, but, honestly, i would put a little money on both of your issues being battery connection issues. The only thing that could have been wrong when you had good batteries, and you switched your adapters The connection was prob loose, did you bend your spring inward to ensure it is getting a good connection? I used to get some intermittent issues with mine, and this solved it 100%.

I am a tester by trade though, so fiddling, and fixing stuff is what i do.

Gibby