Quality Control?
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I'd also like to see some of the Big Name Reviewers who have a following and a reputation in the community get behind this harder than they do. Instead of putting a little CASAA logo at the end of your 15 minute review, how's about skipping a review and talk about these issues? I've never attended a VaporCon or other such event, but I'm hoping that this sort of venue, with the right preparation, could be used to highlight to American business owners and manufacturers that many of us would love to have a chance to support American vaping manufacturers and suppliers instead of being compelled to send our money elsewhere for sub-par merchandise. Even just the hint of such action SHOULD be enough to wake up the Asian players to the fact that we're getting restless with their wares....
Really. End of rant. For now.
Really. End of rant. For now.
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I will take my ESEE as a survival knife any day over a china made samurai sword.
take one of those swords and baton some Oak wood....
Samurai are Japanese.
Yes both have there places but lazyness vs. Nolage really I used to spend 300 a month on marboro red 100's money I could not afford to spend I Just bought a zmax v2 with a Zen and juice blue rasberry cottan candy anof to last a month for 220 a wise man once said " can't we all just get along"
Well, I enjoy helping new and experienced vapors here on ECF. My particular interest is cartotanks. I've also got kind of a thing against vaping things being made of polycarbonate, namely clearomizers and tanks. So I've developed an interest in manufacturers who use pyrex in place of polycarbonate. (I'm still amazed of the manufacturers of expensive tanks in the $50-70 range that still slap a cheap polycarbonate tube on their fancy endcaps! 
)
A niche where innovative American entepreneurs have risen to the occassion are a few pyrex cartotank manufacturers. Like the people from Phiniac, IBTanks, Valley View Vapes, High Desert Vapes, and most recently Cirrus and Hoosier Vapes. These manufacturers need our support to survive in this business to compete against the likes of Smoktech et al. I openly promote and recommend their products when I feel it is appropriate to provide the information. I feel good that they are American and I might be helping the small American businessman. I'm sorry if THAT is being a nationalist, but that's just how I feel.
)A niche where innovative American entepreneurs have risen to the occassion are a few pyrex cartotank manufacturers. Like the people from Phiniac, IBTanks, Valley View Vapes, High Desert Vapes, and most recently Cirrus and Hoosier Vapes. These manufacturers need our support to survive in this business to compete against the likes of Smoktech et al. I openly promote and recommend their products when I feel it is appropriate to provide the information. I feel good that they are American and I might be helping the small American businessman. I'm sorry if THAT is being a nationalist, but that's just how I feel.
I don't see it as "nationalistic" at all, so long as it's not an issue of trying to say you MUST buy American because otherwise you're un-American, etc. which I know is NOT where you're coming from. I'm always excited to see small American businesses stepping up to the plate and working hard to give us what we want!
This is one of the reasons I love IBTanked. Family run affair of a husband, wife, and, daughter. OCD is the glass specialist, ever expanding his glass offerings for his customers, listening to their needs, sincerely appreciating their support. Daughter and mother are the artists and run the business side of things. Their business has really taken off recently. I've had conversations with OCD, good people. I did a review of their tanks here. http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/tank-reviews/349222-ibtanked-pyrex-glass-tanks.html
Very interesting video footage of the L-Rider e-cig production line:
Long video, the factory footage starts at about 1:10:00.
Long video, the factory footage starts at about 1:10:00.
Wow...gotta be honest...there's a lot of automation that could be done there to reduce the labor costs....Interesting nonetheless.
That depends on how much the automation costs, and how much unskilled labour costs. They're running a business after all.
If ANY production facility (regardless of where it is) decides to start throwing away components as scrap instead of sending them out to the customer, the customer will still feel the cost. They'll factor it in. Granted they'll be able to recycle/rework, but this requires labour, planning, etc... i.e. more cost.
So then I hear you scream "well make sure you dont make any scrap then!". This means process improvements, quality control, audits... this all costs money.
As always, you get what you pay for.
Take a look at this:
good work, fast work, cheap work
http://i.chzbgr.com/completestore/2008/12/8/128732255836249218.png
If ANY production facility (regardless of where it is) decides to start throwing away components as scrap instead of sending them out to the customer, the customer will still feel the cost. They'll factor it in. Granted they'll be able to recycle/rework, but this requires labour, planning, etc... i.e. more cost.
So then I hear you scream "well make sure you dont make any scrap then!". This means process improvements, quality control, audits... this all costs money.
As always, you get what you pay for.
Take a look at this:
good work, fast work, cheap work
http://i.chzbgr.com/completestore/2008/12/8/128732255836249218.png
Actually we could do with a dose of good old Nationalism. Not too long ago there was a real sense of pride in American goods and they were the best you could get. Then the Japanese "spoiled" us with their inexpensive (and cheap) stuff and labor unions here got too big and powerful (now they work for themselves rather than the benefit of their members). The Japanese, however, invested wisely as both a people and a government and used the money we were paying them for their cheap stuff to upgrade their manufacturing and quality control systems...because that's the way they think. Now, many Japanese manufacturers make some of the best products on the market (not all).
The Chinese have yet to do this in any big way, mostly because of the attitude of those with the power that making money is more important than making quality goods...and this has much more to do with their government than anything else. They have no laws to protect the workers and the workers simply do what they're told to do...stamp out as many products as possible in the shortest amount of time.
Yes, I too have Chinese cartos, tanks, and a couple KGo VV's. However, my primary PV and, by far, my biggest single expenditure in equipment, is an American-made unit and that was a good part of why I bought it…because I had a great deal more faith that it would be a quality product that I could rely on for some time to come…and, yes, also due to National pride.
Truthfully, I will buy a less expensive device from wherever if it will perform the functions I desire and will hold up. But, if it or it’s manufacturer has a history of being flaky, junkie, untrustworthy, or short-lived, I'll avoid it if I have any choice and buy elsewhere.
No doubt, not everyone can afford a high-end USA-made mod and, for those who cannot, I always suggest that they take the time to research the products they can afford and make the best decision based not just on bells and whistles or high-flying claims but on as much real-world how-does-it-really-work info as they can get their hands on...and, what kind of warranty it has. Further, there is absolutely nothing wrong with buying inexpensive equipment with the intent of saving up for better stuff. In fact, it's a great use of the money you save in not buying cigarettes. In our e-cig world, it is far more important to get people off of the analogs with a device that is sufficient to the task than it is to get them to buy the absolute best equipment right away (unless they can afford it and see the benefits of doing so).
BTW, I am trying to decide which IBTanked units I want (so many great choices) and will be putting in my order soon. From all I can see, they make solid, quality products and sell them at very competitive prices...now that's what we need!
The Chinese have yet to do this in any big way, mostly because of the attitude of those with the power that making money is more important than making quality goods...and this has much more to do with their government than anything else. They have no laws to protect the workers and the workers simply do what they're told to do...stamp out as many products as possible in the shortest amount of time.
Yes, I too have Chinese cartos, tanks, and a couple KGo VV's. However, my primary PV and, by far, my biggest single expenditure in equipment, is an American-made unit and that was a good part of why I bought it…because I had a great deal more faith that it would be a quality product that I could rely on for some time to come…and, yes, also due to National pride.
Truthfully, I will buy a less expensive device from wherever if it will perform the functions I desire and will hold up. But, if it or it’s manufacturer has a history of being flaky, junkie, untrustworthy, or short-lived, I'll avoid it if I have any choice and buy elsewhere.
No doubt, not everyone can afford a high-end USA-made mod and, for those who cannot, I always suggest that they take the time to research the products they can afford and make the best decision based not just on bells and whistles or high-flying claims but on as much real-world how-does-it-really-work info as they can get their hands on...and, what kind of warranty it has. Further, there is absolutely nothing wrong with buying inexpensive equipment with the intent of saving up for better stuff. In fact, it's a great use of the money you save in not buying cigarettes. In our e-cig world, it is far more important to get people off of the analogs with a device that is sufficient to the task than it is to get them to buy the absolute best equipment right away (unless they can afford it and see the benefits of doing so).
BTW, I am trying to decide which IBTanked units I want (so many great choices) and will be putting in my order soon. From all I can see, they make solid, quality products and sell them at very competitive prices...now that's what we need!
We are legislating our selves out of business here . OSHA EMSHA ANSI and such agency's are driven buy insurance. They do not function as intended unless that propose was to bankrupt company's and and drive up construction and manufacturing cost. WE will not get manufacturing jobs back until we address these issues. The longer we avoid this stuff the more we lose the capability to do the work.
I just got a GP Spheroid. I love it easy to rebuild reliable portable preforms great, and guess what it was not made in China!
People like to defend their poorly manufactured stuff every time I point out flaws this in Chinese products I get lots of negative comments. I don't mind everyone has a right to state their opinion. It just amazes me how many people are clueless to what is going on.
I just got a GP Spheroid. I love it easy to rebuild reliable portable preforms great, and guess what it was not made in China!
People like to defend their poorly manufactured stuff every time I point out flaws this in Chinese products I get lots of negative comments. I don't mind everyone has a right to state their opinion. It just amazes me how many people are clueless to what is going on.
I'm so sorry! I didn't mean for this to turn into what it has become. I understand that quality control in China is shot on things like e-cigs. Why wouldn't it be? Something that I'm POSITIVE wholesales for $0.20 (sells for $3 from vendors), isn't going to be worth the time to check out. My question is have we found a reliable tank system? Is there one? Something that produces and lasts. I bought my lava tube from Volcano due to the warranty I got for it. Thank god I did, because I used it.
I don't think anyone was out of line in this topic. Well written and educated responses, which is always appreciated.
So going forth, the question is, have we found reliable systems yet? Has anyone found a tank system that is worth the price, deeming it is reliable?
I don't think anyone was out of line in this topic. Well written and educated responses, which is always appreciated.
So going forth, the question is, have we found reliable systems yet? Has anyone found a tank system that is worth the price, deeming it is reliable?
The Ikenvape 510 "punch" series are getting good reviews, I haven't tried one yet and it's not rebuild able though! I've got a couple of Vivi's coming, I'm hoping I like them?
And I think this has been a great discussion! We've all gotten to clear the air a bit and done so in a civilized manner!
And I think this has been a great discussion! We've all gotten to clear the air a bit and done so in a civilized manner!
Absolutely! It is something we can all agree on, whatever the cause. Quality control has gone downhill on many of our products that we use to get through the day. The question is now, can we connectively come up with something that is reliable and stable enough to get us through the day, satisfactorily.
Hah hah! One of the four swords I own is a Kill Bill "The Bride" reproduction. Every katana guy needs a Bride sword in their collection. ;-)
Handmade Kill Bill T10 Hanzo Katana Sword Razor Sharp
She was also my most expensive purchase. I stopped after her.
Handmade Kill Bill T10 Hanzo Katana Sword Razor Sharp
She was also my most expensive purchase. I stopped after her.
Not according to "Kill Bill"!
The quality control of most vaping gear is definitely poor. DOA hardware, cartos with a mysterious/disgusting taste, melting plastic, cracking/fogging tanks, multiple versions of a device (each slightly less broken and terrible than the last), devices which simply do not work due to poor design, bogegate...., etc..
I have a huge pile of gear which is basically garbage. At some point I just got tired of the whole thing.
Decided to get a ProVari and a ZAP. Couldn't be happier. No need to continually buy and dispose. No materials that can burn or melt. High quality, known materials. Companies which actually care about quality instead of just the bottom line. Expensive? Yes, but worth it IMO. Getting a high quality rebuildable allows you to take the quality control into your own hands.
At the end of the day, the only way to change things is to change your spending habits.
I have a huge pile of gear which is basically garbage. At some point I just got tired of the whole thing.
Decided to get a ProVari and a ZAP. Couldn't be happier. No need to continually buy and dispose. No materials that can burn or melt. High quality, known materials. Companies which actually care about quality instead of just the bottom line. Expensive? Yes, but worth it IMO. Getting a high quality rebuildable allows you to take the quality control into your own hands.
At the end of the day, the only way to change things is to change your spending habits.
In response to your question, I must first ask for clarification: When you say "Tank system", do you mean a "tank cartridge" (atomizer + refillable tank) system like the eGo-T & eGo-C use or do you mean a tank of any sort that holds a decent amount of juice and delivers on performance without much hassle and won't break down in a week?
If it's the former...no, I don't think so. All of the "tank cartridge" systems of which I am familiar tend to be prone to leaking and have very to severely muted taste.
If it is the latter, then yes...I believe so. The ViVi Nova clearomizer tank systems work well and are fairly easy to deal with but have some downsides in that you must tip them often to keep the tops of the wicks wet (or get dry hits...yuck) and they can be a bit of a pain to maintain/clean. The closest to the ultimate no-hassle, it just works tank systems I have encountered are the carto tanks. If you get a good Pyrex glass tube unit with SS end caps, you will have very few issues with the tank itself failing on you (maybe an occasional damaged O-ring but they're cheap to replace) and they clean very well because there is pretty much nothing to absorb the juice flavors. The cartos are the variable. Some people like carto X and others carto Y. Some cartos have a high failure rate (mostly DOA's) and others are better. At the suggestion of one of the members here, I recently tried the 510 Mega Platinum Punch from IkenVape and have been quite pleased with them. They seem to take a good day of vaping to "break in" but then run strong with good flavor and vapor production. Haven't had them long so we will see about longevity. Note that these are non-flanged carto so you have to be a bit more careful about inadvertently moving your tank too far down (tank adapters can resolve that on an eGo). I have also tried the Smok DCT cartos with good results. The 801 fusion carto's I've tried have been excellent with thicker juices but I have limited experience with them...they do seem to produce tons of vapor and good flavor but the ones I have will spit with thinner juice (probably just too big a hole in them so that could be fixed by getting non-punched cartos and punching them myself with the desired hole size & count).
Hope that helps a little, Diz.
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