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DaveP

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May 22, 2010
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The last time I ordered Boge 3.0 cartos, I ordered 5 packs because they were on sale. I had some bad ones previously, but these were advertised as being the "fixed" ones with no inferior absorption problems. There were problems. They wouldn't absorb the juice and gave dry hits from vape one.

I eventually found that it took several hours soaking in an end cap to get them saturated. As long as I do that, they are fine. Get them saturated and then they will abosrb juice quickly when you top them off.

Boge apparently still has some problems. Boge says we aren't saturating them properly on the first fill. That's true, but 10-30 minutes used to be enough. Now it takes hours to overnight.

For the time being, use the condom method and let them sit for 4 to 6 hours before vaping. It's even better if you can let them sit overnight.

 

kristin

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When I get frustrated with dead batteries and attys, I think about the fact that we would have spent nearly $5,000 ($6.70 a pack x 365 days x 2)this year on something that made us feel like crap, which we burned up and threw away.

Instead we'll spend around $1,250 and we feel a whole lot healthier. Sure, stuff dies (what do you expect when you mix sticky liquid with electronics, lol) but it's still 1/3 of what we used to spend on cigarettes, lighters, Febreze and breath mints. ;)
 

Baditude

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Apr 8, 2012
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Not long after getting into vaping, the realization came to me that the weakest link in the vaping chain is in the juice delivery system.

The juices themselves seem to have come a long way. Most of the finer juice vendors offer their product in a choice of PG/VG ratios (choice is always a good thing) along with the vendor's personal recommendation of what they feel their juice works best. An almost limitless number of flavors are available. Hard to believe that when most of us smoked tobacco, we remained loyal to the same tobacco or menthol flavor for years upon end. Quality control of juice manufacturers doesn't appear to be a major issue so far, but few of us consumers really know what is actually going on in the mixing kitchens of manufacturers. I suspect when vaping becomes more regulated, and I'm certain for better or for worse that it is coming, juice manufacturer quality control will become a more certain reality.

When the e-cig was first created, I believe it was with the mini-battery style. It didn't take long to figure out that vaping on a battery that only lasted a couple of hours was unsatisfactory. Today we have pass-through batteries and rechargeable batteries big enough to carry a charge all day or more. That's pretty acceptable from my perspective, once one gets over the concept that e-cigarettes need to be the same size as analogs.

Variable voltage and variable wattage have given us the ability to adjust our vapor and improved the flavor of juices by giving us the ability to heat them at different temperatures. Just as in cooking with food, different flavors taste better at different temperatures. So VV and VW are choices that can and have improved the vaping experience.

As I began this discussion, it didn't take me long into my vaping experience to observe how primative, archaic even, the juice delivery attachments are. Thank goodness the atomizer-cartridge device was pretty much gone by the time I arrived on the scene. Having said that, although cartomizers in my opinion currently provide me the best most easily available and best flavor producing vapor, these devices by their very design leave much to be desired. I can't help but think that there must be a better design than something that depends upon polyfill material to wick the juice to the heating coils. One would think that the string wicking clearomizer atty tanks would be an improvement, but my experience with these have been very disappointing. Somewhere along the way they lose the juices flavor too much of the time.

I haven't had the opportunity to try the new RBAs (rebuildable atomizer) tank systems. The good ones seem to be very expensive, to require a degree in "fiddle-ology", and seem to be out-of-stock most of the time when I go check websites for availability. I like the theory behind these, but they still have a LONG way to go before they can be considered a viable and widely available option to the general vaping population.
 
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DizGrizz

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As with anything new (remember, e-cigs have only existed since 2003), the technology will progress and, as you stated baditude, it is progressing at a fairly brisk rate recently. As the vaping population grows, so will the incentive to innovate so it should only get better and better.

I fully expect to see some type of metered e-liquid "injection" system with ceramic heaters some time in the next year or two. Wish I had the time and money to do the R&D myself (and reap the rewards) but someone will certainly do it.
For now, I'm just going to keep an eye on what's new and use what I can get for the best experience possible...and I'm diggin' it!

I have a couple of the Phoenix style RBA's (non tank) and they can be tricky as heck to do correctly but vape quite nicely if you do. Haven't tried one of the RBA tanks yet...think I'll just stick with my carto tanks and VVN's until someone convinces me their great enough to dump the cash on :)
 

Buggs5347

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We are legislating our selves out of business here . OSHA EMSHA ANSI and such agency's are driven buy insurance. They do not function as intended unless that propose was to bankrupt company's and and drive up construction and manufacturing cost. WE will not get manufacturing jobs back until we address these issues. The longer we avoid this stuff the more we lose the capability to do the work.
I just got a GP Spheroid. I love it easy to rebuild reliable portable preforms great, and guess what it was not made in China!
People like to defend their poorly manufactured stuff every time I point out flaws this in Chinese products I get lots of negative comments. I don't mind everyone has a right to state their opinion. It just amazes me how many people are clueless to what is going on.

Agree with what you said...AND...I cannot get over the fact that many of those workers are young children.
 

SissySpike

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Apr 1, 2012
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I'm so sorry! I didn't mean for this to turn into what it has become. I understand that quality control in China is shot on things like e-cigs. Why wouldn't it be? Something that I'm POSITIVE wholesales for $0.20 (sells for $3 from vendors), isn't going to be worth the time to check out. My question is have we found a reliable tank system? Is there one? Something that produces and lasts. I bought my lava tube from Volcano due to the warranty I got for it. Thank god I did, because I used it.

I don't think anyone was out of line in this topic. Well written and educated responses, which is always appreciated.

So going forth, the question is, have we found reliable systems yet? Has anyone found a tank system that is worth the price, deeming it is reliable?
I get Iken Vape 801 punched and Smoktek 4.5 from
https://www.ecigcharleston.com/one-page-checkout.asp Very seldom get duds and no turkey ham flavor. I mostly use a phiniac or IBT tank
 

StereoDreamer

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Oct 13, 2012
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Ok, this is not meant to sound racist. I am not spouting nationalism, although on the surface it may seem so. The vast majority of vaping products come from China, right? And the quality control of a lot of vaping gear leaves much to be desired. It's my opinion that the poor quality control seen in many of our vaping products can be blamed on the Chinese business principle. And an equal amount of responsibility on us for willingly accepting it....

...Does anyone else agree with me?


You are right in this assumption.

The fact is that the Chinese Business Model is the Quintessential Example of modern sociopathic corporatism--profit at ANY cost--even the cost of the lives of your employees, potential injury, illness or death of your customers, destruction of the environment, and quality control that is somewhere below the level of a 1-year-old's toilet skills.

Similar situations have happened in the high-end audio world. About 4 years ago, a major American high-end audio manufacturer looked into getting some of their components manufactured in China. They sent them specs, testing protocols, and all sorts of CAD files, benchmark data and spec'd the devices down to the type of solder to use and the specific manufacturer of resisters and capacitors.

After the first few test models came back from China an failed the manufacturer's bench tests horribly, the US engineers got suspicious, and started looking "under the hood". They noticed that some of the caps, transisters and even resisters looked suspicious. They found that most of the components were not only sub-par, but were. in fact outright counterfeit parts.

The business model in China is based on cheating, deception, corner-cutting and "profit at any cost". The people of China are not to blame. It is the sociopathic ruling class (much like our own here) that cause this to happen, and their victims are everyone who is not "in the club"--which includes their employees, retailers who sell their products, and consumers who are unfortunate enough to buy their shoddy, dangerous, slave-labor-made goods.

And WE are to blame too, because we continue to buy this crap--knowing that it is crap, and knowing that the people who work in the factories are treated worse than slaves--because it's cheaper than quality stuff made in the US or the EU...

What can we do? Don't buy this Chinese crap. Don't participate in propping up their slave-labor, sociopathic business model. Buy local. Support modders in the US and Europe who make quality PVs. Encourage companies like Lorrilard (who owns BLU) to find a source for their batteries and cartos that doesn't use slave labor, pour poison into the rivers and air, and has decent quality control.

Vote with your wallets. THAT is what got us into this mess, and it can get us back out...
 

kiwivap

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Jul 14, 2012
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I haven't had the opportunity to try the new RBAs (rebuildable atomizer) tank systems. The good ones seem to be very expensive, to require a degree in "fiddle-ology", and seem to be out-of-stock most of the time when I go check websites for availability. I like the theory behind these, but they still have a LONG way to go before they can be considered a viable and widely available option to the general vaping population.

Got Vapes are going to be selling - or maybe have started selling - a whole range of RBA "clones". That's their own term for them btw - "clones" of the ones in this pic on their thread:
http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...ing-soon-gotvapes-near-you-5.html#post7475031
 

kiwivap

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I openly promote and recommend their products when I feel it is appropriate to provide the information. I feel good that they are American and I might be helping the small American businessman. I'm sorry if THAT is being a nationalist, but that's just how I feel.

I thought about this, and understand it. I've also thought about the fact that 95-98% of what I've spent on vaping so far has gone to American businesses. And then that's not enough for some people, they want to run down what I bought (and I'm thinking of certain sitauations that have happened) because, gasp, what I bought was manufactured in China. I'm still buying from American businesses, that are giving people jobs and helping keep families financially afloat. But that's not good enough for some.

There's a local vendor here that I've bought a few things from. I'm think now he should get more of my business, and some other downunders too. And I may start dealing direct with Health Cabin. Might be time to diversify and not put all my money into one country. At the end of the day its my money, my lifestyle and my choice.

There are 350 million smokers in China. I looked at the stats for a Chinese ecig company recently and 25% of their sales were domestic. Of course, they have a huge market at home. Their next largest market was Europe.
 
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klynnn

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Mar 20, 2012
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Seems a lot of people want to complain. I am quite happy with the progress I have made. I have saved tons of money. I am off cigs for almost a year. I am quite happy with my equip, of course it is trial and error to a certain point. I spent so much money over the years on crap that I bought n the U.S. called cigarettes that I find it hard to complain.
 

whitetortuga

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Nov 4, 2011
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Seems a lot of people want to complain. I am quite happy with the progress I have made. I have saved tons of money. I am off cigs for almost a year. I am quite happy with my equip, of course it is trial and error to a certain point. I spent so much money over the years on crap that I bought n the U.S. called cigarettes that I find it hard to complain.

I think you misunderstand. You have to realize that a lot of us got off of cigarettes to save money. In fact, myself included, used to use chewing tobacco. It was only around $1 a can. Now I don't mind spending a little more to not have spitters laying around, but there gets to a point where in between jobs, it is hard to stay afloat. I am just looking for something (not juice/battery) that can really get me through a day without the thought of it dying. I hope you don't take my question as disrespectful to what e-cigarettes are doing for us. It is simply a question of stability in this sector.
 

klynnn

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I smoked 48 years believe me I don't think You have been through more than I have. I take all comers equally. What I did was get a kgo it wasn't the prettiest but it worked for me and lasted me all day .At that point I really didin't know what to try but I listened to some of the long term people that you don't see much anymore like sailorman The juices was horrible but they had possibilities. It takes some time to research and learn but it's well worth it in my case. Since then I have twists spinners and a provari and I don't regret one thing. To save money sometimes you have to spend money. I used to spend almost 280 a month now I might spend 50.00 every other month.
 

kiwivap

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I've saved money too. I took an idea I saw here on the forum - to keep a spreadsheet of my purchases. Even the 3 mods left me still ahead quite well. Cigs are a horrendous price here. I think $14-15 a packet now. I'm out of the loop on the latest prices since I don't smoke anymore - but I know they keep putting them up.
 

jazzbo

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Oct 23, 2011
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Seems a lot of people want to complain. I am quite happy with the progress I have made. I have saved tons of money. I am off cigs for almost a year. I am quite happy with my equip, of course it is trial and error to a certain point. I spent so much money over the years on crap that I bought n the U.S. called cigarettes that I find it hard to complain.
The complaint isn't with vaping, it's with the apparently non-existent QA standards of some vaping supplies manufacturers. I'm sure there is NOT 100% testing going on, because since the first of this year I have accumulated in a dead box 27 cartomizers, 3 attys, and one battery. 15 of the cartomizers don't have air holes punched in them, 5 of them were open circuit out of the box and the rest were short circuited out of the box. 1 of the attys died in 5 minutes, 1 was DOA out of the box and another (bridgeless model) had no coil at all! The battery would not accept a charge from day one and I decided to keep it to fiddle with. A T3 I purchased a couple of weeks ago had no air holes drilled into the knurled skirt. (Sent back and was replaced).

While this isn't a fortune in lost parts, it aggravates me greatly to see such a high failure rate among the stuff I buy. When I buy something, I don't expect to figure on a loss right out of the box. No one would tolerate it for a moment if it were cigarettes, shoes, televisions, cars or the like.... But for some reason many of us do when it comes to our vape supplies. Kinda crazy.
 

Salt&PePPer

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Dammit People, we really need to get together and put our collective feet down.

Getting even 1 DOA Anything with the frequency we experience it is BEYOND RIDICULOUS!

I understand how the industry operates and how it can bring to us 'affordable' apparatuses by mass producing items. But there IS NO QUALITY CONTROL, and there is NO QUALITY IMPROVEMENT - Continual Improvement.

One or Two dead Cartomizers out of a Box of Five is Crazy poor quality. And the WHOLE Vendor side of the American Industry just treats it like 'TOUGH, YOU GOT CRAP AND THERE IS NOTHING YOU CAN DO ABOUT IT'. So they Pass the garbage and the buck onto the consumer. Who is really getting screwed here?

The new stuff tends to be the best stuff. Then the Knock-Offs make it to market, even to the point where most of us don't even know that we are getting crap. That is why the second and third load of stuff you get that is Vivi Nova or StarDust maybe terribly manufactured!
 

kristin

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The "whole" vendor side treats it like that? I disagree. I got a dead usb charger in my last order and the vendor just sent me a new one. I think maybe some people expect the highest quality and best service even when buying at ever increasing discounts? Ecigarettes are no different than any other product - the more you pay, the higher quality and better service you can expect. If you aren't getting it then take your business elsewhere. That's what makes capitalism great - people have choices and entrepreneurs can fill demand.

I started vaping back in 2009 and when I came to ECF then, the height of affordable upgrades from the cigarette models was the 510 and the kr808. The eGo didn't even exist, let alone tanks, vari volts, drip tips, etc! You can just imagine the quality we were dealing with and we were happy for the improvements, not knowing how much better it was going to get. The technology is improving in leaps and bounds and its in it's infancy in the US. It's like the cell phone was just invented in 2003 and people are complaining we don't have the iPhone yet, lol! A lot of the improvements made since 2003, that new vapers may take for granted, have been made by US (and Chinese and Europeam) innovators and are still being developed and perfected. This is just a strange situation where the entire market ends up acting as the test market and is exposed to every little step along the way. We just need yo remember that.
 

DizGrizz

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There is no doubt that what you say is true, Kristin and we, as vapers, are definitely “living large” compared to only a few years ago thanks in no small part to the efforts of Chinese companies to supply the demand for inexpensive vaping supplies. However, I think we need to balance our demands…being only about price makes the producers only about quantity. We need to demand not only reasonable prices but reasonable quality as well. As stated , a 20% failure rate to the end consumer is just abysmal. Something we can all relate to: If you bought a carton of smokes (don’t) and in one pack, 2 of the cigs had no tobacco, 1 had no filter, another had a filter on both ends, and another wouldn’t come out of the pack because it was inadvertently glued to the box, would you be miffed? What if every pack in the carton had a similar failure rate? Would you buy another carton from that company?

For some, it’s mostly about the price simply out of necessity; if you can’t afford it, you can’t buy it. But, I believe that, for many of us, we just search for the “best deal” and it is there that we falter. If we simply retrain ourselves to think of the best deal as being a balance of good price and good quality rather than just the price, we could go a long way toward sending the signal that’s it’s not OK to have horrible quality as long as it’s cheap.

So what can we, as purchasers, do?
- We can make an effort to buy products made in countries we feel have shown that they understand that quality is important and that being responsible for their product is essential. Yes, these products will be more expensive. BUT, they are higher quality…that’s how it works! And, in the end, would they really be more expensive if you consistently get a 98% success rate from the products? Buying a pack of 5 cartos with a 20% failure rate is really just buying 3 cartos for the same price. Starts to sound pretty silly, doesn’t it?
- We can find those devices which have been shown to be of good quality and concentrate our purchasing power on these items. Unfortunately, as Salt&PePPer pointed out, that can be difficult too because of the total lack of regard for intellectual property in China which allows anyone there to make crappy knockoffs of even the decent products…with no repercussions. So, even our vendors can have difficulty determining what products are real and what are fake. But, the effort must be made. If we discover a product sold by vendor X is a knockoff (and they did not say so upfront), we should inform others here and take our business elsewhere.
- We can buy only from vendors who stand behind the products they sell. If we give our business to only those vendors then they will be given the power to demand higher quality control from their suppliers. I will not buy cartos and attys from a vendor that states that they have NO warranty on these products. Admittedly, the best I have seen is a DOA warranty only but that’s far better than no warranty at all (baby steps, folks).
- We can inform our vendors that we do not accept unreasonable failure rates and or crappy quality and we can make sure that that they know we mean it by demanding replacements for such items.

Simply stating that “we’re mad” aint gonna cut it. We have to vote with our wallets. Only then will the producers of these goods start to feel it where it counts and make an effort to change their practices. If we don’t, it is likely to get worse rather than better.
 

JENerationX

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With quality control being what it is, I purchase from companies that I know will stand behind their product. I've used Smokeless Image Volts, Volt X2s, and clearos and nanos from them knowing that when I experience a product failure, SI will either replace or credit those products.

I also own a Zenesis mini. If you have the means to get ahold of a Zenesis APV or a Zatty for your device, I highly recommend it. Manufacturing (in the US) is second to none, there is no plastic to break down, no juice will crack the quartz or SS tanks, and the product is warrantied for life. As far as "fiddle factor", it takes 20-30 minutes to sit down, watch a tutorial and learn how to properly wrap and adjust a coil. I wrap a new coil and/or replace a wick monthly in less than 5 minutes, and dry burn occasionally if I've had a particularly stubborn flavor on the wick. Otherwise, I just vape it.
 
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