Random Comment

[angelique510]

OK, maybe not random. I think I am supposed to deliver this message. I first got the urge to (or was moved to) mention this early Friday morning, but blew it off. Twenty-two hours later, I am now back here and typing. Either I was told to lovingly admonish my sisters and brothers, or something just got stuck in my craw and I feel like complaining. If it is the latter, I truly apologize.

You know I love my fellow Christian Vapers. You know eschatology is one of my favorite topics. I know that we are all excited and looking forward to the return of our Lord. But I think we (in this forum) are too focused on prophecies and signs and tying current events into those signs and prophecies. There have been some amazing posts here and I have learned a lot and been very moved by some of them. The conclusions we are drawing may very well be right. They may also be wrong.

We Christians have been looking for His return for the past 2,000 years. He did say He'd be back for us, so we know for a fact that He will be. He said there would be signs pointing to the season of His coming. He also said that nobody, not even He, knows when that time will be, only the Father knows. Many good and learned Christians over the past two millennia have been positive that it would happen in their lifetime. Some even came up with an exact date. So far, they have all been wrong.

But that is not the point I am trying to make here. My point is about how we are discussing the topic of end times prophecy. The problem in discussing this topic publicly is that we (Christians) know the context and the big picture, and can keep (hopefully) this fascinating part of our Faith in perspective. Unsaved people who read our discussions have not studied the "big picture." From their point of view (I'm guessing, but I think it is a good one) they see doom and gloom. They see us all excited about the horrors that are to come. "We" are saved from these terrible events, but "they" are going to get it big time. If you think about it from their POV, we look uncaring and sadistic.

Another conclusion they could come to is better, but still bad. They just think that we've donned our tinfoil hats. Like some crazy conspiracy theorist, we pick out seemingly innocuous, unrelated events and say "See! It said in our book that this would happen." Prophecy, as a general rule, is vague and open to many different interpretations until the thing actually happens. Unsaved people do not believe that the Bible is the word of God. To them it is just another old mythology.

When Christ was here, He told amazing stories and spoke of events of the future. He was crucified for it. We are Christ's representatives here and now. He uses us to do His work. The word Christian means follower of Christ or "little Christ." Non-Christians see us as either sadists or lunatics. But they're not going to crucify us for it, at least I don't think so. What does happen is much worse. They say "If following Jesus means you are a sadist or a lunatic, I don't want anything to do with this Jesus guy. He has to be even worse than His followers."

Can you see this as a logical conclusion? If this is so, then we have failed in the Great Commission. If by our words or actions, we cause anyone to turn away from God, we are working against Him. And you know what that means.

We are Jesus' representatives here. We have to live in a way that makes people say "These Christians are OK people. Maybe this God of theirs is OK too. I should learn more about Him."

What I am saying is that it doesn't do any good, it doesn't accomplish our work here, to say "He is coming!" if they don't know who He is. We need to help them know who He is. Once they know that, they will know He is coming, just as we do. The best way to help the unsaved people know who He is, is to show them - by being as much like Him as we can possibly be. God came down and became human to bring us to Him. We can't become unsaved, but we can try to put ourselves in their place and see from their point of view, so that we can bring them to our understanding and relationship with God.

These two verses came to mind. I don't know if they are the best verses to illustrate what I have written, but they are still good ones.

“So if anyone tells you, ‘There he is, out in the wilderness,’ do not go out; or, ‘Here he is, in the inner rooms,’ do not believe it. For as lightning that comes from the east is visible even in the west, so will be the coming of the Son of Man." Mat 24:26-27
​

“A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another.” John 13:34-35

​

With much love,
~A

 

[LisaLisa]

You made some very good points. I"m not sure how to balance it all out tho. I mean, on one hand I can really see what you're saying. But on the other hand, I feel that time is short and signs are given for a reason.

So, how to find a happy balance there is the question that I'm left with. Not sure how to resolve that or how to handle it for myself personally.....or how to balance it out.

I do think that no matter what I say, or others say, there will always be some that call christians fruitcakes and whatnot, they did that to Jesus Himself. It's also very hard to contain your excitement when you really believe that your Lord is coming soon as this is the thing that we live for. So, hiding that excitement and joy is like putting your lamp under a table. No?

I don't know, but I"ll give it serious thought today.

 

[LisaLisa]

Angelique, would you like to be the new moderator of this group? If so, I"d be happy to give it to you as I think you would do a very good job of it. I'm looking for another regular to replace me anyway, for other reasons. If you are willing to step up to the plate, let me know.

Perhaps then, you might be encouraged to be more active here and post more things that you feel are more of a positive and upbuilding nature. I'll wait for your decision.

 

[angelique510]

Huh? Moderator? Um... Let me reply to both of your posts at the same time. I did not mean to imply that a new moderator was needed. It is not that anyone is doing anything wrong, per se. Just that in our zeal, we forget that not everyone reading here is a Christian. We are new creatures in Christ, and what is obvious to us, may be interpreted very differently by people who are not yet saved. We should not hide or whitewash the truth, but always present it in a way that cannot be interpreted as bad, threatening, holier-than-though, fire and brimstone, bertha-better-than-you, westboro baptist, etc, etc. You know how all Christians are grouped with "those Christians" We have had several discussions about them Heck, I'm not even sure what I was talking about. I think I was just taking dictation. You know how that goes.

As for the moderator job....I don't think I'd want it if it paid a million bucks a year. But I'll ask the guy in charge if He wants me to do it. I'll let you know.

~A

 

[Jason_in_nc]

I've actually had some of the same thoughts angelique so I'm glad you brought it up. There are a lot of discussions that I might partake in were this forum private.

Let's face it, that's the problem. We could discuss end times theories all day long, argue all sorts of points in scripture and it would be no problem if it was a discussion just among family, but it's not.

 

[ShannonS]

I feel that anyone that is not a fundamentalist conservative Christian is not welcomed here. It does come across as a very gullible and tin-foil hatted environment. I see very little spiritual fruit and a lot of religious nuts. I am attempting to speak plainly, not hurtfully, but it is impossible for me to connect with this forum.

When I see Christians fall for all sorts of stuff that is so obviously fake, it's embarrassing. I'm not ashamed of the Gospel, but I have to admit that I am a bit ashamed for this forum.

In love and and confusion,

ShannonS

 

[LisaLisa]

I feel that anyone that is not a fundamentalist conservative Christian is not welcomed here. It does come across as a very gullible and tin-foil hatted environment. I see very little spiritual fruit and a lot of religious nuts. I am attempting to speak plainly, not hurtfully, but it is impossible for me to connect with this forum.

When I see Christians fall for all sorts of stuff that is so obviously fake, it's embarrassing. I'm not ashamed of the Gospel, but I have to admit that I am a bit ashamed for this forum.

In love and and confusion,

ShannonS

That's a tad bit judgmental. Well, it's actually worse then that, but I"m not going to get into it with someone that has never even attempted to get to know us, or never allowed us to get to know her.

 

[LisaLisa]

Ok, here's what I have to say to the complainers. This little group is based on participation of the members. If there are a few people who are more active then others, expect them to talk about all kinds of things that interest them. There are many many threads started here, on all kinds of topics. Interestingly enough, the ones that get the most replies and interest are the ones on end times prophecy or whatever, as I guess that's what most find interesting. The threads on faith, love, get little to no interest. Who's fault is that?

Christians are not cookie cutter robots. We are all people, just regular people. We all have different personalities, different topics of interest and study, or whatever. We are not stepford wives and we are all different, and have different interests, strengths and weaknesses. Different talents too.

Say we had a musical band going on here. I played piano, someone else played flute and another played the harp. Someone comes in and says "That's terrible, it's embarrassing, you guys are doing it wrong, sounds like you're all nuts". How do you think the ones that are playing and putting in the effort would feel about that? How would you feel about that? Is that loving?????? I don't think so........just the opposite.

Wouldn't it be better to say "Hey, I play guitar, let me join in and help with the musical arrangement" and that would be wonderful!! Everyone would appreciate that.......because it's the right way to do it. You wouldn't be critisizing, you'd be actively helping.

But, most do not do it that way. They want to hear the music when they feel like it, and they expect it to be played the way they want, when they participate little to nothing themselves. I think that stinks, and it's selfish.

Sorry, just calling it like I see it. Since everyone else is being honest, I should be able to say what I think also.

 

[ShannonS]

That's a tad bit judgmental. Well, it's actually worse then that, but I"m not going to get into it with someone that has never even attempted to get to know us, or never allowed us to get to know her.

Definitely not intended to "get into it" but I thought that perhaps someone would be interested in knowing the reaction the sensational eschatology can create in people.

 

[closetsmokr]

As a more "private" Christian, meaning I don't go to a specific church, and I do not believe in preaching where it's not welcomed, and I think people can and should be more civil and respectful in their perspectives on religion, I do think that this forum is outside of the "mainstream" of most Christian's beliefs and ideals. I decided a while back that I would not post on this forum very much mainly because I find this board to not be representative of most Christians. I am aware that there may be a day when God takes back everything from this earth, and maybe from the universe, but I don't think about it or worry about it everyday. And with all the technology we have today, I pretty much don't believe most things I see, read, or hear unless I get it first hand. And, I'm sorry to say, when the Christian boards are covered with thread titles that read like headlines from the National Enquirer, others do tend to think it's a bit "nutty" as ShannonS put it. I'm not saying I agree, but looking at it objectively, I can see the point. You made a thread for "questionnable" videos and stories, but of late, everything has been going on the main board as individual threads with titles that appear "sensational" to those who see them when they click on "New Posts." Kudos, Angelique, for your post as well. I have had the exact same thoughts as you, and I tried to communicate my perspective, but I didn't do it as eloquently as you did.

 

[angelique510]

I feel that anyone that is not a fundamentalist conservative Christian is not welcomed here. It does come across as a very gullible and tin-foil hatted environment. I see very little spiritual fruit and a lot of religious nuts. I am attempting to speak plainly, not hurtfully, but it is impossible for me to connect with this forum.

When I see Christians fall for all sorts of stuff that is so obviously fake, it's embarrassing. I'm not ashamed of the Gospel, but I have to admit that I am a bit ashamed for this forum.

In love and and confusion,

ShannonS

Hi Shannon,

Thank you for your post. That's exactly what I was talking about. If you, as a fellow Christian, do not feel comfortable here, imagine how non-Christians feel. We do tend to preach to our own choir here. Just like the conservatives and liberals do in the political forums. Trust me, I know, I do it. Here and Outside. We all like to hear ourselves talk, and we all like to hear the approval of the people in our own group; birds of a feather, human nature - how many cliches can I fit into one paragraph?

Me personally, I am a "fundamentalist, conservative, Christian" but only if you use the dictionary definition of those words. Fundamentalist and conservative have certain connotations (not good) when applied to religion. But I know that there are a lot of Christians that do not fit that definition, both dictionary and commonly accepted. That doesn't make them any less Christian. I am almost positive that when we get to Heaven, we will find out that we were all wrong on varying points of doctrine. If someone is a Christian, they should feel welcome here.

For that matter everyone should feel welcome here; that whole "love thy neighbor" and "Christian hospitality" thing. How are we to share the Gospel with the people who need to hear it, if they go running and screaming in the opposite direction at the mere mention of our name?

As I have said many times, I am far from a Biblical scholar. In fact, I am a very young Christian. I tend to err on the side of caution when it comes to interpretation and look at what the book says in black and white. I ask, "well, what would a language/grammar teacher say it meant?" When asked my opinion, I will give it and back it up as best I can, while stating that it is only my opinion. I don't see where my opinion should be given any more weight than anyone else's. In fact, if an opposing opinion is well backed with reason, facts, and logic, I am very willing to change my opinion on the subject. I am more interested in finding the truth than in winning an argument. Especially when the subject, God and His word, is of ultimate importance.

Again, thank you for your comment.

Be well,
~A

 

[Saintscruiser]

Okay, I've read all the posts and this is my conclusion.

1) This board is one of the more loving thy neighbor attitude I've seen on a Christian board. Christian boards are mainly duking it out with each other, which makes this one look out of the mainstream and into the 'loving thy neighbor' stream. I've seen it and felt it. This board and the diverse individuals have helped me to ....BAM....kick my devotion up by 20 notches. Not everyone agrees with me, but I know I am loved in this room. I have made friends here that will be my friends forever. I CHERISH each and everyone, and I ask God to bless each and everyone.

2) I've done things on this board that have shocked me.....like praying in print. I am the one who if asked to say a prayer will say....."uh oh....call on someone else as I have to go to the bathroom." I go back and re-read some of these prayers and KNOW I didn't pray them, that Jesus was speaking to my spirit, and my spirit to my fingertips. That is an awesome feeling, to know that the Lord is speaking through you. How do I know it's the Lord? Because the p.o.p. won't praise God or Jesus. Plus, I have gotten into Praise sessions without meaning to. It is a privilege to Praise and Honor Almighty God for He is AWESOME! Hallelujah!

3) When you yourself need special prayer, I know the prayer warriors will take up the mantle and pray up a storm....a category 5 hurricane. When I ask for prayer, these folks say what they mean and mean what they say. I can depend on this group to get the job done, not just give me lip service.

4) As far as being an evangelical fundamentalist, I won't apologize for that. I have as much of a right to post what is on my heart as an atheist. I am a Christian first and denomination second. Right is right and wrong is wrong. If you don't agree with me, Freddy Kruger isn't going to come looking for you.....I promise.

5) I love end time prophecy. When I became a Christian in 1985, it was almost immediate that I just knew time was short. Yes, people have looked for Jesus' return since His toes left this earth, BUT, the clock really began ticking loudly after May 1948 when Israel became a nation. It's like that video either Lady L or Cuz put up when the guy said we have seconds. Except for when Jesus walked the earth in human form, this is THE most exciting time in history. Do you realize that the rapture could be tonight? Yeah, being left behind is really going to suck, but these people will still have a chance to come to know Jesus as their personal Lord and Savior, HALLELJUAH! Even then, He'll give people another chance! Folks can read the Left Behind Series and learn a lot. The doom and gloom that is being spoken of is actually Scripture.. it's straight out of the Holy Bible, God's inerrant Word, which is 'sharper than any two edged sword,' the Word that will not return null and void. Do you realize that Christians are the only people that can explain what is going on in the world today?

6) And in closing.....yeah, I realize this is long and I hate long messages, I'm going to miss Lady L if she doesn't come back. I love her as she is my sister! She's only been a Christian for about a year, maybe a little more, and I have found most of her posts diversified and interesting. I appreciated her enthusiasm. Nobody can do a banana dance like Lisa...no body. There are some that were questionable, but that is Lady L. All in all, I think she did an excellent job. Being a moderator isn't an easy job. I am holding up my caffeine free diet coke.....La C'haim! (That's a Jewish toast meaning 'To Life!')

7) Now, I think that Lady T is going to do an awesome job as moderator. Her heart is strong and true for Jesus. So Lady L, you picked a great successor!

Now, having said all of that, can't we all just get along?

 

[trukinlady]

Saints

Thank you for your confidence in me! I like what you said about being a Christian first and a denomination second. We are all the body of Christ, with diverse gifts, strengths, and talents. We are to stand firm in His Word, united as one body.

To God be all Honor, Glory, and Praise as we each grow in our daily walk with Him!!!!!!! AMEN!!!!!!!

 

[closetsmokr]

I just want to clarify that I wasn't naming names or anything - I was just making a comment based on my observations about the threads on the CV that are titled like sensational magazine/newspaper headlines. Everyone has the right to believe what they want to believe, but, we all have to take responsibility for how we come across to others, whether we like that or not. I have written it many times before - just because we can, doesn't mean we should. I know it's difficult to see ourselves the way others see us and take that perspective and use it to "filter" or "self-monitor" our communications. However, if you want to be taken seriously, and not viewed from the inside and outside world as something negative, you have to apply the conventions of society (just in terms of outward image - doesn't apply to what is in your heart) or you will be ignored or cast aside. This topic has nothing to do with the people on CV getting along with each other - it has to do with not creating negative perceptions to others by going for the "headlines." Topics like the second-coming can be discussed here, but I think the words used, particularly in the thread titles, can be written in a way that won't create a sense of over-zealous sensationalism. And, while there are often threads praying for and praising others, those are not as common and get distracted from by the "questionable" posts. Just something to think about going forward. Amen.

 

[Saintscruiser]

I just want to clarify that I wasn't naming names or anything - I was just making a comment based on my observations about the threads on the CV that are titled like sensational magazine/newspaper headlines. Everyone has the right to believe what they want to believe, but, we all have to take responsibility for how we come across to others, whether we like that or not. I have written it many times before - just because we can, doesn't mean we should. I know it's difficult to see ourselves the way others see us and take that perspective and use it to "filter" or "self-monitor" our communications. However, if you want to be taken seriously, and not viewed from the inside and outside world as something negative, you have to apply the conventions of society (just in terms of outward image - doesn't apply to what is in your heart) or you will be ignored or cast aside. This topic has nothing to do with the people on CV getting along with each other - it has to do with not creating negative perceptions to others by going for the "headlines." Topics like the second-coming can be discussed here, but I think the words used, particularly in the thread titles, can be written in a way that won't create a sense of over-zealous sensationalism. And, while there are often threads praying for and praising others, those are not as common and get distracted from by the "questionable" posts. Just something to think about going forward. Amen.

"I Am the way, the Truth, and the Life. No man cometh unto the Father but by Me." You cannot work your way into Heaven; you can't depend on your grandparent's religion to get you into Heaven; ignoring Heaven and Hell doesn't make it any less real. "For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in Him should not perish, but have eternal life." These are words that Jesus Himself said. The Sanhedrin felt Jesus' followers were zealots. What Jesus was preaching made the Phairisees quake in their sandals....and they had Him murdered because of it.....or so they thought. They went to sleep, smug and filled with victory for 3 days....... until God started counting* .....10.....9.....8.....7.....6....5....4....3.....2.....1............Jesus' eyes opened, and Jesus said...."Oh death where is thy victory, oh grave, where is thy sting!" And Christianity was Born for people to be born again for all who would receive. AMEIN! HALLELUJAH, PRAISE AND HONOR TO THE MOST HIGH ALMIGHTY GOD!


* Got from The Champion by Carman

 

[trukinlady]

"i am the way, the truth, and the life. No man cometh unto the father but by me." you cannot work your way into heaven; you can't depend on your grandparent's religion to get you into heaven; ignoring heaven and hell doesn't make it any less real. "for god so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life." these are words that jesus himself said. The sanhedrin felt jesus' followers were zealots. What jesus was preaching made the phairisees quake in their sandals....and they had him murdered because of it.....or so they thought. They went to sleep, smug and filled with victory for 3 days....... Until god started counting* .....10.....9.....8.....7.....6....5....4....3.....2.....1............jesus' eyes opened, and jesus said...."oh death where is thy victory, oh grave, where is thy sting!" and christianity was born for people to be born again for all who would receive. amein! Hallelujah, praise and honor to the most high almighty god!* got from the champion by carman

Yes!!!!!!! Praise You Lord!!!!!!!

 

[bassnut]

Wouldn't it be better to say "Hey, I play guitar, let me join in and help with the musical arrangement" and that would be wonderful!! Everyone would appreciate that.......because it's the right way to do it. You wouldn't be critisizing, you'd be actively helping.

Well said, LisaLisa.
From an outsider looking in, this point hits the nail squarely on the head.

 

[trukinlady]

I just want to clarify that I wasn't naming names or anything - I was just making a comment based on my observations about the threads on the CV that are titled like sensational magazine/newspaper headlines. Everyone has the right to believe what they want to believe, but, we all have to take responsibility for how we come across to others, whether we like that or not. I have written it many times before - just because we can, doesn't mean we should. I know it's difficult to see ourselves the way others see us and take that perspective and use it to "filter" or "self-monitor" our communications. However, if you want to be taken seriously, and not viewed from the inside and outside world as something negative, you have to apply the conventions of society (just in terms of outward image - doesn't apply to what is in your heart) or you will be ignored or cast aside. This topic has nothing to do with the people on CV getting along with each other - it has to do with not creating negative perceptions to others by going for the "headlines." Topics like the second-coming can be discussed here, but I think the words used, particularly in the thread titles, can be written in a way that won't create a sense of over-zealous sensationalism. And, while there are often threads praying for and praising others, those are not as common and get distracted from by the "questionable" posts. Just something to think about going forward. Amen.

CS,
You've made some very good points. We are ambassadors of Christ, and maybe the only ones non-believers may encounter.


Colossians 4:5-6

5 Walk in wisdom toward those who are outside, redeeming the time.
6 Let your speech always be with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer each one.

 

[Saintscruiser]

CS,
You've made some very good points. We are ambassadors of Christ, and maybe the only ones non-believers may encounter.


Colossians 4:5-6

5 Walk in wisdom toward those who are outside, redeeming the time.
6 Let your speech always be with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer each one.

Very wise words indeed, but God's Word is always wise to be digested. It's that head to heart knowledge.

You are so right, Lady T about us being ambassadors of Jesus. It's like working for a corporation and your boss sends you to make a deal with another corporation. You represent your corporation. If you put your best foot forward, it reflects on your boss and company. If your representation is lacking, it reflects on your boss and company. I know Christians who will get irate and flip the middle finger to other drivers that aren't paying attention to what they are doing and how they are driving. People are constantly watching Christians, just waiting for an opportunity to say those dreaded words, "And I thought you were a Christian." It's been used against me many times, I'm sad to say. You've blown it.....what I then do, once I realize what damage I've done, is I pray to the Father to send another representative. That's difficult to do .... face God with yet another boo boo. Remember, King David, with all of his faults was a man "that was after God's own heart." He was, as we all are, familiar with repentance. That is what made King David so very special.....he had a repentant heart!

 

[HyOnLyph]

Hello All. Sorry I haven't been around much. Got pretty sidetracked from the forums. Just had the opportunity to read the OP and I think Angelique has some really valid points. And I applaud her courage for writing it. I would elaborate but I don't see the need to repeat what she has said. Blessings to y'all.