Rapid Steeping

[ErrrMee]

Hi All,
I read somewhere about microwaving to speed up the steep time. Does heating in general make it faster or is it not a great way to go? Cheryl

 

[amiller36]

I am still heavy in the research stage of DIY but from I've read, most people run it under hot water and rotate frequently. Haven't heard of microwaving, but would be interested in hearing some feedback from the pros.

 

[Dvx67]

I wouldn't use the microwave. Too easy to fry your liquid. I use a cup of hot water from my Keurig for a quick steep but it doesn't take the place of time. For sampling, I put it in the hot water and leave it until it is about room temp. Then shake for a few minutes and repeat 2 or 3 times for a small 5 - 6 ml batch.

 

[bunnomatic]

oops

 

[buffaloguy]

Crock pot... 125° setting... three hours of steady ongoing heat will mature a juice to about 2weeks of age in my experience. I use glass bottles. It'll take three days or so after that for a juice to shine... For tobaccos, two more weeks to be stellar and absolutely ripe. (no way around it with baccy juices Im afraid. They will continually change and develop over time. Even months later however they all have a "sweet spot" and that is the time frame I refer to above).

all juices will be vapable and ready after three hours regardless of type. I swear by my crock pot for steeping. I have a mini one and it works perfect.

 

[dannyv45]

There are 3 common methods

1. time
2. Hot water
3. Ultrasonic cleaner.

I've tried all three and other then waiting (time) I found the ultasonic cleaner to work the best.

There's a good thread on it here.

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...eeping-times-ultrasonic-cleaner-part-iii.html

 

[taofishdude]

I just picked up a heated ultrasonic cleaner for $75 on eBay.

 

[dannyv45]

I just picked up a heated ultrasonic cleaner for $75 on eBay.

You'll be glad you did. 3 - 5 hours in the UC bath and vapes will be ready. Do your first 30 min cycle with heat and the rest without. If yours don't have heat then just fill with hot tap water. The water will stay warm through out the rest of the cycles by the ultrasonic wave action.

 

[ErrrMee]

Crock pot... 125° setting... three hours of steady ongoing heat will mature a juice to about 2weeks of age in my experience. I use glass bottles. It'll take three days or so after that for a juice to shine... For tobaccos, two more weeks to be stellar and absolutely ripe. (no way around it with baccy juices Im afraid. They will continually change and develop over time. Even months later however they all have a "sweet spot" and that is the time frame I refer to above).

all juices will be vapable and ready after three hours regardless of type. I swear by my crock pot for steeping. I have a mini one and it works perfect.

A crock pot I have but it doesn't go by temp, it just has High, Low and warm. Do you use water and take the tops off? To be honest I'm not entirely clear on the steeping thing. I bought my first juices ready made, so if I don't even open some of them and three or more weeks have passed are they pretty much steeped at that point? There are sure a lot of things I've yet to learn! I'm so glad to have found ECF and a big THANK YOU to you and all the other helpful folks on these boards.

 

[buffaloguy]

Time steeps all things beautifully... given enough time. So yes, sitting on those store made juices, or your own, certainly matures them. What we are helping you with here is how to best speed that process along, or at least kick start it a little.

Ill take dannv's post a bit further tho if he doesnt mind and amend it a little. I find four ways to steep:

1) Time does it all on its own... but patience is a virtue and checking a juice eveey few days to see if it is mature YET is just how it goes. As you find your favorite juices... you'll know almost to the day of steeping time when it will be prime and ready.

2) Hot water. This to me is boil or microwave some hot water, drop in your bottle and when the water cools, redo it... I find this very consuming and VERY ineffective. Yes it helps some, but not alot.

3) CONSTANT Heat... in a hot water bath. Now thats the method in my experience that works best. Steady heat is more effective at producing a good steep. I dunno why that crock pot at 125° works so darn well... but it just does, and I believe the steady heat/temperature is the reason why.

4) Ultrasonic. People swear by it but Im not sold that it is more effective. I can shake things by hand. Heat and ultrasonic well thats exactly same as 3 above really. Yeah, okay we can get all Bill Nye science guy here and talk about microscopic blah blah that may/may not happen with ultrasonic steeping but the investment in an ultrasonic cleaner that has heat just, imo, isnt worth the expense unless you wear alot of jewlrey or use cartos alot... it does work well on cleaning attys and cartos.

See, Heat does more for infusing flavor than any other method. Just like cooking. Its all about the flavor molecules. Heat infuses... shaking... just shakes. It does nothing. Anyone can shake/mix pasta and sauce. But add your pasta to sauce, with heat in a pan, and the sauce coats the pasta and infuses it with flavor. Much better than just thowing sauce on top of spagetti, yuk. Heat the sauce and pasta togerher in another pan with a touch of the pasta water for a final cook, and its a whole new world of flavor.

Fill your crock pot with water and set it on its Low setting for about 30mins. Check again 10 mins later to see if the temp has remained constant. Use a thermometer to check the temp. If its above 125° on Low, redo and then check the warm setting for temp. (Best guess, on your crock "warm" is likely 125° or close to it) but start on your low setting just in case. You can always adjust up or down once you know where the middle takes you.

During that three hour steep... if you are using alc base flavorings keep the tops off for the first half hour. Then caps on for the remainder of the time. Any pg, or, vg base flavorings caps on the whole time. Shake the bottle by hand every 30 mins or so.

I only steep with caps off IF the flavorings are made with alcohol, or if its an alcohol based flavoring like rum flavor for example. Or if its very floral or perfumey. smelling.

 

[ErrrMee]

Hello Buffaloguy,

"Fill your crock pot with water and set it on its Low setting for about 30mins. "

By fill I guess you really mean enough to cover the bottles but keeping their tips out of the water..YES?

"I only steep with caps off IF the flavorings are made with alcohol, or if its an alcohol based flavoring"

I do have a few that are the super concentrates and used alcohol in the making. Is it true that if you leave these open the alcohol is eliminated, if so how long for this to happen? I ended up going with the super concentrates because I'm using 100% VG and TFA uses PG in many flavors and at 10 to 15% plus more in the case of recipes it starts to add up quite a bit.
On the subject of mixing or shaking when adding flavors to the nic do you feel to do it right it must be mixed/stirred? I ask because I'm a shaker so far but if that's no good I'll have to amend my way when I can afford more equipment.
I am very grateful you have taken your time to mentor me in this, thank you, thank you, have a great weekend

Cheryl

 

[Dvx67]

I just picked up a candle warmer. I thought I would try this since it didn't cost much. I put some hot water in a mug and a freshly made bottle of liquid in it and it is sitting on the candle warmer. According to my meat thermometer, it is between 125 - 130 degrees. I'm going to shake it every half hour or so. Well probably more often since I will give it a few shakes each time I head to the fridge for another beer. Will try this in a few hours and see how it is.

 

[buffaloguy]

Never thought of a candle warmer. As long as the temp is steady or close should work well. Interested to see how it turns out for you.

Cheryl, just up to the neck of the bottle. As long as 3/4 the bottle is submerged you are good to go imo.

Alc dissipates pretty quickly when exposed to air, especially when heated. Just like in cooking. Its suprising how much cooking experience applies to making eliquids. It doesnt take long. However I will say I have left the caps on (forgot) and it didnt make much difference. Especially with the VZ SC's. The amount of alc in the finished juice really is kinda miniscule when considering the volume of the other ingredients by comparison. So dont worry about it too much.

Where leaving caps off for a longer duration really can help is when a juice is purfumey or when you are using drink type flavorings like rum, brandy, etc. It tends to tone them down some and round them out a bit. One drop per 5ml of distilled vinegar will help with that also.

As far as shaking. I mix everything into the bottles directly and them shake it when im done. Then every half hour or so when im heat steeping. After that ill shake em once a day for thirty seconds for about five days... then i dont do it again unless it has sat for a couple weeks.

I really truly believe that shaking really doesnt help juices mature. Only time and/or heat does that. If someone can show me actual science that says shaking alone makes eliquids better, Ill believe. Logic tells me tho the more its shaken the more oxygen is introduced (unless a bottle is in a vacum and totally airtight) the faster a juice will oxidize. Past initial mixing I just want to make sure there is no settling or separation happening. Thats the only reason ill shake a bottle past the first day.

 

[Propertea]

Never thought of a candle warmer. As long as the temp is steady or close should work well. Interested to see how it turns out for you.

Cheryl, just up to the neck of the bottle. As long as 3/4 the bottle is submerged you are good to go imo.

Alc dissipates pretty quickly when exposed to air, especially when heated. Just like in cooking. Its suprising how much cooking experience applies to making eliquids. It doesnt take long. However I will say I have left the caps on (forgot) and it didnt make much difference. Especially with the VZ SC's. The amount of alc in the finished juice really is kinda miniscule when considering the volume of the other ingredients by comparison. So dont worry about it too much.

Where leaving caps off for a longer duration really can help is when a juice is purfumey or when you are using drink type flavorings like rum, brandy, etc. It tends to tone them down some and round them out a bit. One drop per 5ml of distilled vinegar will help with that also.

As far as shaking. I mix everything into the bottles directly and them shake it when im done. Then every half hour or so when im heat steeping. After that ill shake em once a day for thirty seconds for about five days... then i dont do it again unless it has sat for a couple weeks.

I really truly believe that shaking really doesnt help juices mature. Only time and/or heat does that. If someone can show me actual science that says shaking alone makes eliquids better, Ill believe. Logic tells me tho the more its shaken the more oxygen is introduced (unless a bottle is in a vacum and totally airtight) the faster a juice will oxidize. Past initial mixing I just want to make sure there is no settling or separation happening. Thats the only reason ill shake a bottle past the first day.

do you use 30mL bottles with these? and also what if i plan to use bigger bottles such as 10 or 30 oz bottles. would it be ok to just have the water site midway and maybe increase the temperature?

 

[dedi]

you all are using glass bottles?

 

[Propertea]

plastic will deform with heat, if you place that into the crockpot with the cap on. poof.

 

[DeeDee1234]

I have been using the .... pot lately and it does seem to work well. I have a little .... pot and with the lid off after its heated the temp is about right on warm. Also,I made a foil bottom for it to hold the bottle off the bottom and upright

 

[buffaloguy]

I use bottles up to 60ml in a crock pot. If you have alot to make... use a bigger crock pot. The water mid way is fine itll just take longer for everything to come up to temp and stay there.

do you use 30mL bottles with these? and also what if i plan to use bigger bottles such as 10 or 30 oz bottles. would it be ok to just have the water site midway and maybe increase the temperature?

 

[buffaloguy]

I guess if you have a really weak plastic sure. Ive never seen this happen. I did use plastic bottles in the past. I stopped using them because I didnt want plastic leeching into my juices. Wether or not they do is a diff discussion entirely.

plastic will deform with heat, if you place that into the crockpot with the cap on. poof.

 

[psycheval]

I really truly believe that shaking really doesnt help juices mature. Only time and/or heat does that. If someone can show me actual science that says shaking alone makes eliquids better, Ill believe.

Laws of thermodynamics
"" First law of thermodynamics: Heat and work are forms of energy transfer. Energy is invariably conserved, however the internal energy of a closed system may change as heat is transferred into or out of the system or work is done on or by the system. It is a convention to say that the work that is done by the system has a positive sign and connotes a transfer of energy from the system to its surroundings, while work done on the system has a negative sign. For example, changes in molecular energy (potential energy), are generally considered to remain within the system. Similarly, the rotational and vibrational energies of polyatomic molecules remain within the system.

From the above, all the energy associated with a system must be accounted for as heat, work, chemical energy etc., thus perpetual motion machines of the first kind, which would do work without using the energy resources of a system, are impossible. ""


Means you do anything at all to it that thing you did has an effect on Entropy. 2nd Law of Thermodynamics covers the rest. Any work whether it's just molecular energy or physical energy. Even electrical figures into the calculations for entropy. You create heat by doing anything. Regardless of whether heat was added. To increase entropy you agitate it in some way I.E. heat, shaking, vibrating, spinning, or electrical current. The velocity at which those things are done is also figured into the calculations for Entropy. Anything that makes heat increases entropy. All the actions have an affect on thermodynamics because the molecules are in motion. You increase entropy you speed up steep times.