I had an old friend come over who smokes cigars, so I thought he might be interested in the e-cig. I have 4 rn4081s so I put a different flavor in each of them and we started smoking. All of our puffing produced a bit of a vapor haze that you could see as the light filtered through the blinds. Which got me thinking, what would a bar room full of e-puffers look like, and would there really be no second hand smoke, or vaporized nicotine clouds? Or is the statement by manufacturers simply meant to imply that there's no second hand smoke, because it's not smoke, it's a vaporized nicotine fog.
Really no second hand smoke?
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I wondered the same thing last night when at my non-smoking friend's house. You could see the wisps in the light from the table-lamp. Difference is compared to ciggy smoke is the vapour does dissipate much quicker whereas ciggy smoke hangs in the air for ages.
Well, at least it wouldn't smell like ......and your hair and clothes wouldn't stink either.
As soon as any research is done, and they do find out even microscopic levels of nicotine linger in the air around e-smokers for a brief period, I think you can kiss the "sidestepping the smoking ban" battle cry, and we'll be banished back to the basement to smoke.
Yep. And we've had reports of sensitive people smelling it already. Plus, it will put a haze on glassy surfaces, like a computer screen or mirror. It ain't "nothin," that's for sure. And it's not "water" either.
Dr. Laugesen will measure the exhalation and we'll get a fix on content and longevity of the exhaled material. You are so right, Jarvis, except we'll be lucky if the basement is made available.
Dr. Laugesen will measure the exhalation and we'll get a fix on content and longevity of the exhaled material. You are so right, Jarvis, except we'll be lucky if the basement is made available.
no- 'second hand smoke' was banned because of the carcinogentics in the burnth tobacco and chemicals, not because it stunk or looked bad- E-Vapor contains none of that and While these put off a vapor that lingers a bit, and may cause some film, it certainly won't cause the ill effects of actual second hand smoke
it will get hit because of the fake gun real gun principle.. plus it makes the anti smoking police forces job harder.. the law enforcement agencies wont like the "i wasnt smoking i was vaping your honour" defence thats now available..
guilty at a thousand yards will require real proof that it was in fact smoke the snoop has seen.. they aint gonna like it period..
lets hope it dosnt catch on.. and remains low profile and simply a thing a few oddballs do.. oddballs officialdom ignores.. its when it goes mainstream the problems will start.. he he
folks who think otherwise are in for a rude awakening..
trog
guilty at a thousand yards will require real proof that it was in fact smoke the snoop has seen.. they aint gonna like it period..
lets hope it dosnt catch on.. and remains low profile and simply a thing a few oddballs do.. oddballs officialdom ignores.. its when it goes mainstream the problems will start.. he he
folks who think otherwise are in for a rude awakening..
trog
Bear in mind Trog that Nanny Nu Labour are fighting for survival now. Cameron's already called for a General Election. Next step, if he's wise, will be to call for a Vote of No Confidence in the government.
I'm not a Tory by any means but 75% of the Tory MPs voted against a blanket ban.
One to watch is David Davis. Despite being ridiculed in the press and by his own party, he had the last laugh when he fought the by-election on the erosion of civil liberties. He more than trebled his majority because people are so fed up of the nanny state.
Politics in this country are getting quite interesting at the moment. Shame Parliament's gone into summer recess.
I'm not a Tory by any means but 75% of the Tory MPs voted against a blanket ban.
One to watch is David Davis. Despite being ridiculed in the press and by his own party, he had the last laugh when he fought the by-election on the erosion of civil liberties. He more than trebled his majority because people are so fed up of the nanny state.
Politics in this country are getting quite interesting at the moment. Shame Parliament's gone into summer recess.
most of the loss of civil liberties is down to the demand for civil liberties..
it goes this way.. the none smoker thinks its against his civil liberties to have the smoker pollute his air space.. so it gets banned.. the quiet person thinks its against his civil liberties to have his peace interrupted by noise.. so it gets banned..
keep this up and everything gets banned.. we cant do anything in case it offends someone else as most things do and its all to increase our civil liberties..
tolerance and respect for others is whats missing.. if there is one thing i cant f-cking tolerate.. its f-cking intolerance.. he he he
people get the government they deserve.. which seems to be a pretty lousy one.. i lost faith in the lot of em years ago..
"its my job to govern.. its your job to make sure i do it well".. some american dude who i cant recall the name off.. long ago we ceased to make sure they do it well.. tooo many are entrapped in their favorite soaps to care..
trog
it goes this way.. the none smoker thinks its against his civil liberties to have the smoker pollute his air space.. so it gets banned.. the quiet person thinks its against his civil liberties to have his peace interrupted by noise.. so it gets banned..
keep this up and everything gets banned.. we cant do anything in case it offends someone else as most things do and its all to increase our civil liberties..
tolerance and respect for others is whats missing.. if there is one thing i cant f-cking tolerate.. its f-cking intolerance.. he he he
people get the government they deserve.. which seems to be a pretty lousy one.. i lost faith in the lot of em years ago..
"its my job to govern.. its your job to make sure i do it well".. some american dude who i cant recall the name off.. long ago we ceased to make sure they do it well.. tooo many are entrapped in their favorite soaps to care..
trog
You are so right.
Civil liberties? Acknowledge the reasonableness of these statements:
Your right to smoke ends at my nose.
Your right to listen to the music of your choice ends at my ears.
Your right to view pornography ends at my eyes.
Those are the public arguments in the U.S. Good luck in trying to counter them with anything other than your own selfish desires.
doing a little quick- very rough calculating. Someone mentioned that it takes 5 puffs on ecigg to = 1 puff of real cig nicotine-wise, (and htis is for hte high nictonine I assume) A real cigg is roughly 10 puffs, so it would take 50 puffs off an e-cigg to = one cigarette nicotine-wise. (And let's not forget that the nicotine diminishes with each consecutive puff, so these figures will be on the high side of htings nicotine-wise)
Now, if 98% of the nicotine is absorbed in the lungs with the e-cig (accordign to one estimate) that would mean that for every 50 puffs of ecig, only 2% of 24 mg is filterign into the air via the vapor on the first few puffs, and even less as we continue to puff (unless we change hte cartridge frequently)- of that 2% most is stickign to walls, cieling, tables etc as te vapor tends to land on objects, and very little is actualyl floating aroudn even htough it looks liek alot because the clouds of vapor look menacing.
If you've got 10 peopel esmoking, only 20% of 24 mg nicotine is floating around at the end of 50 puffs per person which amounts to roughly 4.8 mg of nicotine, which again much will find it's way onto objects and not actually be inhaled as 'second hand' vapor lol- Each non vaporer in the room will only get a fraction of that 4.8 mg as the nicotine will be widespread throughout hte whole room, and not all concentrated in one spot. Nicotine when it is exposed to the air quickly breaks down as well. So, At hte end of the4 week- provided a non vaporer were to go to same pub each night, and 10 people were vaping every night, the non vaporer might end up with .o1 mg more or less of nicotine in their blood system total
Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but me thinks that a room filled with esmokers all puffing away liek mad won't produce enough to even be worried about
(I've never been good at math, so if I'm off on htis feel free to correct)
Now, if 98% of the nicotine is absorbed in the lungs with the e-cig (accordign to one estimate) that would mean that for every 50 puffs of ecig, only 2% of 24 mg is filterign into the air via the vapor on the first few puffs, and even less as we continue to puff (unless we change hte cartridge frequently)- of that 2% most is stickign to walls, cieling, tables etc as te vapor tends to land on objects, and very little is actualyl floating aroudn even htough it looks liek alot because the clouds of vapor look menacing.
If you've got 10 peopel esmoking, only 20% of 24 mg nicotine is floating around at the end of 50 puffs per person which amounts to roughly 4.8 mg of nicotine, which again much will find it's way onto objects and not actually be inhaled as 'second hand' vapor lol- Each non vaporer in the room will only get a fraction of that 4.8 mg as the nicotine will be widespread throughout hte whole room, and not all concentrated in one spot. Nicotine when it is exposed to the air quickly breaks down as well. So, At hte end of the4 week- provided a non vaporer were to go to same pub each night, and 10 people were vaping every night, the non vaporer might end up with .o1 mg more or less of nicotine in their blood system total
Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but me thinks that a room filled with esmokers all puffing away liek mad won't produce enough to even be worried about
(I've never been good at math, so if I'm off on htis feel free to correct)
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yes our argument would have to be based on the case that there is "none".. let the opposing side prove there is.. jarvis is perfectly correct..
trog
The key it seems to me will be carcinogens. It's not nicotine that causes all the second-hand smoke ruckus. It's exhaled carcinogens and sidestream smoke from tobacco combustion. I think our vapor is not a health problem -- but it's a huge PR problem with anti's, and Jarvis is correct. Trog also noted the law-enforcement problem and that will be a huge obstacle to overcome.
Among the lies we are being told when we buy these is that an e-device can be used anywhere and is safe around non-smokers, babies, dogs, etc. Again, there is no proof at all. That's just market sales-speak. If that claim proves untrue in any way, the e-house of cards comes tumbling down. Frankly, the claim never should have been made. We should be satisfied that e-smoking is many times safer for all involved than cigarette smoking. Stop the claim right there.
Among the lies we are being told when we buy these is that an e-device can be used anywhere and is safe around non-smokers, babies, dogs, etc. Again, there is no proof at all. That's just market sales-speak. If that claim proves untrue in any way, the e-house of cards comes tumbling down. Frankly, the claim never should have been made. We should be satisfied that e-smoking is many times safer for all involved than cigarette smoking. Stop the claim right there.
a quote from the pillbox website... the real key word/words is/are "lit" or "could be lit" it could be argued that technically it is tobacco product because its liquid contains something obtained ffrom the leaf.. but if "lit" is in the legal definition.. they always have these at the back.. e smoking isnt smoking and is legal in the UK..
"In Chapter 28 that incorporates the Smoking ban, the definition of smoking is stated as : smoking refers to smoking tobacco or anything which contains tobacco, or smoking any other substance, and smoking includes being in possession of lit tobacco or of anything lit which contains tobacco, or being in possession of any other lit substance in a form in which it could be smoked."
thats at the moment and legal is only one side of the issue..
trog
ps.. the other UK danger is the on the spot fine system.. modern justice with no trial or need to prove guilt.. u are guilty get the fine slapped on u then have to prove your innocence.. this will happen..
"In Chapter 28 that incorporates the Smoking ban, the definition of smoking is stated as : smoking refers to smoking tobacco or anything which contains tobacco, or smoking any other substance, and smoking includes being in possession of lit tobacco or of anything lit which contains tobacco, or being in possession of any other lit substance in a form in which it could be smoked."
thats at the moment and legal is only one side of the issue..
trog
ps.. the other UK danger is the on the spot fine system.. modern justice with no trial or need to prove guilt.. u are guilty get the fine slapped on u then have to prove your innocence.. this will happen..
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