reported deaths due to nicotine

[skoony]

Yes, it was I, and yes, I've been monitoring the Israeli issue, though not as often lately, and to date I stand by my original premise: that this story as initially reported was not proven to be a case of nicotine poisoning, and any followup has been in the form of unofficial rumormongering and guessing, since no official followup has been issued by Israeli authorities that I've been able to find.

And yet. And yet, I've seen several "experts" (of the ANTZ variety) refer to this case as a "death by nicotine," (and worse, a "child's death by nicotine) as if it were established fact.

thanks AgentAnia,
i don't know how the news is run in Israel but if where here in Minnesota it would go like this.
1. a child dies of nicotine poisoning from e-cigs,news at 6 pm.
2. interview with the doctor that treated child.
3.heart felt plea from parents about the dangers of these evil products.
4. analysis from doctors,layers,elected officials,health experts and,the man on the street.
5,days later,obits,memorials and more analysis.
6. a couple of weeks down the road,toxicology reports and of course more analysis.
7. the linking of the child's death to every related story real or imagined ad infinitum till the end of time.
did i leave anything out?

regards
mike

 

[Maurice Pudlo]

thanks AgentAnia,
i don't know how the news is run in Israel but if where here in Minnesota it would go like this.
1. a child dies of nicotine poisoning from e-cigs,news at 6 pm.
2. interview with the doctor that treated child.
3.heart felt plea from parents about the dangers of these evil products.
4. analysis from doctors,layers,elected officials,health experts and,the man on the street.
5,days later,obits,memorials and more analysis.
6. a couple of weeks down the road,toxicology reports and of course more analysis.
7. the linking of the child's death to every related story real or imagined ad infinitum till the end of time.
did i leave anything out?

regards
mike

8. one line retraction on pg 12 four weeks later.

Maurice

 

[wv2win]

Why did you start this thread with such an inflammatory title??? What is the point other than more "google juice" for those wanting vaping banned worldwide.

As unfortunate as it would be for anyone to die from ingesting e-liquid, considering millions have been vaping for 7+ years and all that can be found is these questionable stories, it is not worth our attention and definitely not starting a thread with this title.

 

[skoony]

Why did you start this thread with such an inflammatory title??? What is the point other than more "google juice" for those wanting vaping banned worldwide.

As unfortunate as it would be for anyone to die from ingesting e-liquid, considering millions have been vaping for 7+ years and all that can be found is these questionable stories, it is not worth our attention and definitely not starting a thread with this title.

i disagree with inflammatory. attention getting i'll admit to that.
my point is and its very important, it is what the ANTZ and no-vaping public will remember. a child died from nicotine. some others and i are trying to get to the bottom of this story. the ANTZ surely are going to use it without any reminding or researching. if these stories are true,what are the facts. apparently there are no facts as others and me can't find any.when some one approaches you or me and starts berating us for a product that killed a child i think we should have all the pertinent information available to the last detail. we should not let this stuff just slide.

regards
mike

 

[Maurice Pudlo]

quick note to the moderators,please move to appropriate forum if necessary.
hi all,
i remember back not to long ago there had been a reported death of a child due to ingesting e-juice. this saddened me very much. today i did some googling.
apparently there may have been three death's. i found the original story from Israel concerning a 2 year old girl link below.
hxxp://www.jpost.com/Breaking-News/Toddler-who-ingested-liquid-nicotine-passes-away-314683

i found follow ups of the story on many e-cig related sites such as this.
hxxp://www.vapesquad.com/toddler-dies-after-drinking-e-juice/"]Toddler Dies after Drinking E-Juice - Vape Squad

apparently a small boy in Wales here.
hxxp://www.electrocigarette.com/child-dies-after-drinking-nicotine-liquid/"]Child dies after drinking nicotine liquid

another noted here but,no location or names given.
hxxp://www.bubblews.com/news/2126161-local-kids-are-dying-from-ingesting-electronic-cigarette-juice"]Local Kids Are Dying From Ingesting Electronic Cigarette Juice - Bubblews

so there is 2 and possibly 3 children who's death was caused by e-juice. my problem is i can't find any follow up stories other than my first link. any other mentions of these deaths are from e-cig related sites referring to the original story. no autopsy,or toxicology reports.no memorials or obits.nothing. i am not an expert on the googling, so what am i doing wrong. can any one confirm these reports? i can't seem to find any conformation. does any one know of any follow up stories?
regards
mike

Might still break up the URL a tad just in case. I can see the value of leaving the URLs as is though to instill a bit of reason in a general Google search though. I don't find it a bad topic at all to address, I would like to see more complete and accurate reporting on hot topics such as this, you have to take the good with the bad sometimes.

If we are 100% sure the stories didn't happen as stated vapers need to know so they can discuss it with some measure of facts to back them up, otherwise we sound just like any other "I heard such and such online" dude.

Maurice

 

[rolygate]

I did see a follow-up to one of the 'child death' stories, and it suggested that the death was in fact due to choking on a carto the child had swallowed.

 

[Maurice Pudlo]

I did see a follow-up to one of the 'child death' stories, and it suggested that the death was in fact due to choking on a carto the child had swallowed.

Do you recall where this follow up came from by chance?

Not to minimize the loss of a child in any way or take away from the realization that a carto can be dangerous, realistically a crayon could result in a similar death based on size, or a pen tube, or a bit of plumbing, or a cable modem jack, a short pencil, etc.

The number of dangerous stuff in a normal home is usually pretty high, and for the most part it is up to the owner of said stuff to know how to safely use stuff in a manner that does not result in the death or serious injury of others.

Especially in today's society where people like to place blame on everything negative in their lives on someone other than themselves, it's a wonder anything ever gets done. Oh you tripped on a crack in the sidewalk, sue the concrete guy for not making a perfectly level surface to walk upon, um... how about watch where you are going.

Maurice

 

[XJ-linux]

Evidence of Actual Ecig Nicotine Deaths Still Eludes Researchers

That would have been my title. Anyhow, I think even if there were 100 or 1000 deaths a year, it is still a pretty minor consideration statistically in relation to policy decisions. Require warning labels and child proof containers, and move along. Don't keep poison on the kitchen counter be it eliquid or tetraethylmethyldeath.

 

[Maurice Pudlo]

Evidence of Actual Ecig Nicotine Deaths Still Eludes Researchers

That would have been my title. Anyhow, I think even if there were 100 or 1000 deaths a year, it is still a pretty minor consideration statistically in relation to policy decisions. Require warning labels and child proof containers, and move along. Don't keep poison on the kitchen counter be it eliquid or tetraethylmethyldeath.

I say by all means keep an open bucket of poison wherever you like, just be ready to accept full responsibility for whatever happens.

Effective parenting is what keeps kids safe, not hiding all the dangers of the world.

Maurice

 

[rolygate]

Do you recall where this follow up came from by chance?

Unfortunately not.

All I can say is that this 'trial by newspaper' situation is ridiculous, it means people can print any rubbish they like in a hit and run attack then run away. There is no comeback, no need for anything remotely near the truth to be published.

In the UK a few years back there was a case where a government agency running Trading Standards at the time published a vicious pack of lies about ecigs, including that they were 10 times the label strength and killing children. The head of the agency turned out to be crazy and it was wound up. It no longer exists today. At that time there was no trade association and no consumer association, so people could basically print any lies they liked and get away with it. The UK trade association was formed as a direct result of that - if it had been around at the time, a huge court settlement would have resulted as it was a groundless and lunatic attack.

It's still the case that journalists can publish any old rubbish and what we need is an organisation like the NRA that will go after people publishing junk, so they get to realise there is a price to pay for publishing outright lies even when there is no individual plaintiff.

 

[ruet]

Meh... Wake me up when this gets serious.

Buckets can kill small children

 

[Kent C]

Meh... Wake me up when this gets serious.

Buckets can kill small children

Go back to sleep. You'll break Rip Van Winkle's record

 

[Maurice Pudlo]

Meh... Wake me up when this gets serious.

Buckets can kill small children

I'm off to buy as many as will fit in my neighbors yard. Damn crumb munchers! I have no idea how those got there officer...

MP

 

[ruet]

Here's another good one from the same site:

Cigarette Butts contain enough nicotine to kill your child

They're everywhere!8-o

 

[Maurice Pudlo]

For that matter, CarefulParents.com - Stairs can kill your child

Windows pose the same threat. If you leave a window open and a child can reach it, a child will often climb right over the sill and fall

This one says 5000 kids attempt suicide, I mean fall from windows per year
5,000 kids a year hurt in falls from windows – The Chart - CNN.com Blogs

This one kinda puts things into prospective, in 2009 there were 4,131,019 kids born.
Live Births and Birth Rates, by Year | Infoplease.com

That first study covered a span of 17 years worth of births (kids aged 0-17), so of the some 68,000,000 kids in existence in a one year period, 5,000 fall.

For a reality check, that's 1:13,600, yep it's better chances than playing the lotto, but I wouldn't exactly say it happens often.

Maurice

 

[wv2win]

Evidence of Actual Ecig Nicotine Deaths Still Eludes Researchers

That would have been my title. Anyhow, I think even if there were 100 or 1000 deaths a year, it is still a pretty minor consideration statistically in relation to policy decisions. Require warning labels and child proof containers, and move along. Don't keep poison on the kitchen counter be it eliquid or tetraethylmethyldeath.

Now why didn't the OP think of that, I wonder.

But the topic is still a big waste of time. If there was a shred of validity to these stories, the ANTZ's would be all over them. This forum does not need to add to the hype.

And if anyone asked me about it on the street, I would tell them it is just BS and there is a reason why it is not nationwide headline news with valid sources.

 

[rothenbj]

Do you recall where this follow up came from by chance?

Not to minimize the loss of a child in any way or take away from the realization that a carto can be dangerous, realistically a crayon could result in a similar death based on size, or a pen tube, or a bit of plumbing, or a cable modem jack, a short pencil, etc.

The number of dangerous stuff in a normal home is usually pretty high, and for the most part it is up to the owner of said stuff to know how to safely use stuff in a manner that does not result in the death or serious injury of others.

Especially in today's society where people like to place blame on everything negative in their lives on someone other than themselves, it's a wonder anything ever gets done. Oh you tripped on a crack in the sidewalk, sue the concrete guy for not making a perfectly level surface to walk upon, um... how about watch where you are going.

Maurice

Follow up four weeks later,,,,,,,on page 12.