Ridding the world of junk science?

[VapApe]

That's interesting, Elaine.

Perhaps we should attack more, instead of constantly defending. In the end, defence is not enough, and leads to an impression that there is substance to the attacks if they are not refuted in the strongest possible way. I know that some do not agree with me but it is my opinion that, in the end, the motives of the attackers, their lack of scientific reasoning, and their conflicts with the rules of the institutions that employ them must be addressed in the firmest way.

In the end, defence is not enough.

In the words of your colleague Dr P., it may be 'throwing bombs', but someone needs to do it - if only to leave CASAA looking like the 'voice of reason'

I am with you all the way.


I stated else where that are best weapons are own personnel story and growing body of evidence.

I believe we need a battle plan. I mite have come up with a way to shut up a troll who hates CASAA and ECF.

When the troll gos off on CASAA EFC or E cigs in general.
A comment should go something like this.

@ (trolls name ) Thank you for the heads up. I did look into ( who or what there attacking ) And found this.

And wow I wished I had found this out years ago I am now smoke free after ( your personnel story )
If its wasnt for you I would never had found out about E cigarettes. Thank you so much.
You may have saved my life.

I think you get the point

 

[mwa102464]

I've been saying it for a long time that we should be on the let's say positive push side of e-cigs, let's make the FDA,Govt and ANTZ prove us all wrong, Cassa and any and all should be on the Attack pushing ecigs instead of always being on the defense. This scenario should be used in many other topics against the Govt as well, Govt surely needs a LOT of change in all countries it's like them against us instead of for us anymore, and the only way to fight this battle is to stand up, speak, and shout it out to get what we want, otherwise they will just continue to dominate as well as tax the crickets out of us all to pay for all there big paychecks and benefit packages and retirement plans. There's nothing like marketing the truth about a product and they cant argue the complete facts unless proven wrong so put the burden on them not us.

 

[DC2]

And, they will berate you while they eat their Big Mac and Super Sized Fries.

And drink their mocha lattes.

 

[zoiDman]

Here is an interesting post regarding Statistics.

So i read the study... and I like what I see.
I DO NOT like the small sample sizes (really they couldn't find more people willing to sit in a room and inhale smoke?)
I need to freshen up on my statistics to see if there's any funny business going on in that department.
I also wish they had looked at carboxyhemoglobin as well- seems kind of silly to leave it out.

I think more bigger studies like this will help the medical community divorce nicotine from the devastating effects of tobacco smoking (yeah right, like that'll happen )

 

[VapApe]

I am hoping their is a member here who know something about marketing.
And who would be kind enough to pass on some tips.
All is far in love and war folks And this is war.

 

[DC2]

Perhaps we should attack more, instead of constantly defending. In the end, defence is not enough, and leads to an impression that there is substance to the attacks if they are not refuted in the strongest possible way. I know that some do not agree with me but it is my opinion that, in the end, the motives of the attackers, their lack of scientific reasoning, and their conflicts with the rules of the institutions that employ them must be addressed in the firmest way.

Those that want to eliminate electronic cigarettes have two immense advantages over us...
--They have somehow gained the confidence and respect of the public
--They have vast sums of money to control the message being delivered to the public

I am of the opinion that our chances of winning are slim unless we can take away those advantages.
We can hope that truth will win out, but without the resources to get the truth heard, that could be a very long journey.

Big tobacco entering the game, for better or worse, at least gives us money that we otherwise would never be able to have.
All we can do is hope they use it in ways that help us more than harm us, but that remains to be seen.

So that leaves discrediting our opponents in the eyes of the public as our best hope, in my opinion.
And to do that we MUST attack them and expose them in every way we can.

We don't have any more resources for attacking them in public than we do for spreading the truth.
But the difference is that the truth is boring, and doesn't sell very well.

 

[zoiDman]

Those that want to eliminate electronic cigarettes have two immense advantages over us...
--They have somehow gained the confidence and respect of the public

...

This is something that I was Surprised that No Pro-Vaping groups didn't try to Counter?

Funding Studies can be Expensive. But getting a Movie Star or TV Celeb to come out and say that they use e-Cigarettes can Usually be done for Free.

In the Court of Public Opinion, One Celebrity goes Much Farther than All the Clinical Studies Ever Done.

Any good Politian knows that the Biggest Gains can be made thru the Media. And Not thru the use of Facts.

 

[VapApe]

PT Barnum said " I know its a humbug the public know its a humbug.
When presented in a entertaining way the public loves a good humbug."

Case in point all of the so-called reality shows on tv.

 

[DC2]

This is something that I was Surprised that No Pro-Vaping groups didn't try to Counter?

Funding Studies can be Expensive. But getting a Movie Star or TV Celeb to come out and say that they use e-Cigarettes can Usually be done for Free.

In the Court of Public Opinion, One Celebrity goes Much Farther than All the Clinical Studies Ever Done.

Any good Politian knows that the Biggest Gains can be made thru the Media. And Not thru the use of Facts.

Agreed, a celebrity can make a HUGE impact fairly quickly.
So far every attempt to contact and/or enlist one has been spectacularly unsuccessful.

 

[zoiDman]

Agreed, a celebrity can make a HUGE impact fairly quickly.
So far every attempt to contact and/or enlist one has been spectacularly unsuccessful.

That is a Shame.

High Profile Faces get the Media all Fired Up. And the Media is/was Key to this Battle.

 

[DC2]

That is a Shame.

Yeah, you would think they would be into it with all their activism-oriented mindsets.
My first guess is that they don't have a clue what is really going on, so they aren't aware there is anything needing to be done.

If we could enlist and educate Leonardo DiCaprio, we would be hard to stop.

 

[zoiDman]

Yeah, you would think they would be into it with all their activism-oriented mindsets.
My first guess is that they don't have a clue what is really going on, so they aren't aware there is anything needing to be done.

If we could enlist and educate Leonardo DiCaprio, we would be hard to stop.

It could be that. And it could be an Image Thing.

Some may feel that Becoming a e-Cig Poster Child is not the Image they want to project. Even if they use and Believe in them.

What would be Cool is to get some Head of the Havard School of Medicine to come out and say that the Use and Support e-Cigarettes.

 

[DC2]

The thing I don't get is that Rush Limbaugh vapes, and yet says nothing.
Whatever you think of him, attacking our opponents seems like it would be right up his alley.

 

[zoiDman]

The thing I don't get is that Rush Limbaugh vapes, and yet says nothing.
Whatever you think of him, attacking our opponents seems like it would be right up his alley.

I for one am Extremely Grateful that Rush hasn't come out in Support of e-Cigarettes.

Because there seems to be MANY More people who are Against Anything that Rush is for just because Rush is Rush.

Rush has a way of Vehemently Polarizing People. And no amount of "Good Science" can change that.

 

[jtpjc]

We are the underdogs. One advantage: the audience loves the underdogs. Another advantage: the anti's are doing their best to make us the underdogs, consequently causing more sympathy for us. Let them come with their arguments that are easy to refute. Let them shout and curse at us, blatantly showing their arrogance and irrationality. They will only dig deeper graves for themselves. No need for a war that only knows losers.

 

[VapApe]

I cant wait to see the We are Vapors documentary. And get it out there.

 

[RosaJ]

Yeah, you would think they would be into it with all their activism-oriented mindsets.
My first guess is that they don't have a clue what is really going on, so they aren't aware there is anything needing to be done.

If we could enlist and educate Leonardo DiCaprio, we would be hard to stop.

I believe he already vapes, seen a couple of pictures of him using an analog look-alike ecig.

 

[Vocalek]

Looks like Ellen Hahn missed this memo big time.

You got that right!

 

[martinc]

Big Tobacco entering the game, for better or worse, at least gives us money that we otherwise would never be able to have.
All we can do is hope they use it in ways that help us more than harm us, but that remains to be seen.

er...bad idea I say,that wouldnt be better than big pharma or submarine funding some lab results shows.

...or would it be playing the same game as 'them' the way to go?

 

[NorthOfAtlanta]

You got that right!

Elaine, I'm more worried that she just read the first line,

"Each member of the University must endeavor to:

1. promote the best interests of the University of Kentucky"

and didn't want to go against BP and loose the money coming in from them by not toeing the company line.