Save your money

[hiram13pm]

"I have never bought from them (due to their bad reviews), but I have used some of their products through trades - Royal Smokers and e-liquid.cn in particular. And they were garbage. I feel sorry for the person who DID pay for them."

If they are garbage then most likely most of the U.S. are also garbage. I think most supplies come from China.

I think Mistress is talking about liquids here. All atomizers (and most other hardware, batts, etc.) come from China. Liquids, on the other hand, aren't a Chinese patent & so can come from anywhere. Mine is all US made from US and European ingreadients... I know, because I mix it myself. My nicotine is extracted by a lab here in the states, my PG is made here, and about half my flavorings are Italian.

There are a few decent Chinese e-liquids, yeah. But most of 'em are crap.

 

[Automaton]

I think Mistress is talking about liquids here. All atomizers (and most other hardware, batts, etc.) come from China. Liquids, on the other hand, aren't a Chinese patent & so can come from anywhere. Mine is all US made from US and European ingreadients... I know, because I mix it myself. My nicotine is extracted by a lab here in the states, my PG is made here, and about half my flavorings are Italian.

There are a few decent Chinese e-liquids, yeah. But most of 'em are crap.

Well, I also distrust Dekang, but I am talking about hardware as well.

That network of suppliers sell a lot of cheap knock-offs, as well the CE2's, which have been a whole barrel of fun the past few months. My experience with them was terrible. Enough to convince me they are unethical for even allowing them into the market.

China sells good stuff, and China sells bad stuff... just like the US does.

 

[hiram13pm]

Now, I just need an alternative to my addiction to saltwater fishtanks...

Oh, man! A few years back, when I lived there, I dated a woman in Albuquerque who was into saltwater fish... now THERE is an expensive hobby... lol.

I feel for ya!

 

[AJMoore]

To the OP - I have mixed emotions regarding what to buy and when. I started with the 510 and 808 then after trying them I knew it could work so I immediately moved up to a 5-6 volt mod (I wanted more!). I could have saved $$$$ had I gone directly to the mod but it's the learning curve thing, had to start there to get to here. I now use all my 510 & 808 batts as loaners to help people get started. Once they try them they go on to a larger purchase. All is not lost.

 

[hiram13pm]

Well, I also distrust Dekang, but I am talking about hardware as well.

That network of suppliers sell a lot of cheap knock-offs, as well the CE2's, which have been a whole barrel of fun the past few months. My experience with them was terrible. Enough to convince me they are unethical for even allowing them into the market.

China sells good stuff, and China sells bad stuff... just like the US does.

So far, apart from my first supermini free-trial ripoff, I haven't had any really bad experiences with cheap or bad hardware at all. I was lucky enough to find this forum early on & have stuck with known, reputable vendors.... so my hardware has all been excellent. Chinese juice, on the other hand, has left me with a...

wait for it, here comes the pun...

...bad taste in my mouth.

Sorry. Couldn't help it, it was too easy. But yeah, there's some excellent Chinese hardware out there, and heavengifts is an excellent supplier. Juices? Not so much...

 

[Hardpack]

"All supplies (apart from most mods) do come from China. And I am very happy with my Chinese Kr8's, 510's, and 901's."

I may very well be wrong but my understanding of it is your 510's etc. had their origins with e-liquid.cn. Not from them directly but down the chain. There are many different companies/divisions all with direct ties to the main co./factory. Dekang/royal smokers/microcig/central trade/e-liguid.cn/intellicig and probably more are all basically the same co. just different divisions/names and they all originate at the factory.

 

[Automaton]

"All supplies (apart from most mods) do come from China. And I am very happy with my Chinese Kr8's, 510's, and 901's."

I may very well be wrong but my understanding of it is your 510's etc. had their origins with e-liquid.cn. Not from them directly but down the chain. There are many different companies/divisions all with direct ties to the main co./factory. Dekang/royal smokers/microcig/central trade/e-liguid.cn/intellicig and probably more are all basically the same co. just different divisions/names and they all originate at the factory.

They may well sell the real deal. Problem is, they also sell terrible knock-offs, and have even been known to send something else entirely and try to pull it off as being the correct item. They don't tend to offer any sort of compensation for wrong items, except "buy more stuff" or "spend $30 for shipping both ways," and even then I have heard of them sending the wrong/defective items again.

Like I said, if your experience differs, then great. Do whatever works for you.

But I have bad experience with the products, and have read a lot of bad reviews on their service. So I stay away.

 

[Hardpack]

I love my Dekang RY4 juice. Crap comes from anywhere. Talk bad reviews. Search Johnson Creek. Their reviews got me buying from China.

 

[Automaton]

I love my Dekang RY4 juice. Crap comes from anywhere. Talk bad reviews. Search Johnson Creek. Their reviews got me buying from China.

I don't like (or trust) Johnson's Creek either. Like I said, not a nationalist issue.

 

[irwink]

Well, I also distrust Dekang, but I am talking about hardware as well.

That network of suppliers sell a lot of cheap knock-offs, as well the CE2's, which have been a whole barrel of fun the past few months. My experience with them was terrible. Enough to convince me they are unethical for even allowing them into the market.

China sells good stuff, and China sells bad stuff... just like the US does.

RE: The CE2's. No offense but you'll find a lot of folks that adamantly disagree with you including myself. Granted, I didn't use any of the rev 1 and rev 2 CE2's and perhaps your personal experience was with one of those. They were and remain a beta product. I got my first E2 rev 3's at the beginning of the month and am pleased enough with them to the point that I've used nothing else since. I've used (510 versions) Boge's, SLB's and Mega Carto's (junk imo) and the E2 rev 3's blow them all away in my opinion.

I did order from a US supplier though. I view dealing directly with Chinese suppliers too much of a sketchy proposition.

 

[Hardpack]

I am using the rev3 and couldn't be happier.

 

[jereader]

I love my Dekang RY4 juice. Crap comes from anywhere. Talk bad reviews. Search Johnson Creek. Their reviews got me buying from China.

I started with a blu kit, which is all JC juices. I really like the flavors that came with the kit, but the little carts really didn't work worth a crap. I ordered a big bottle of Arctic Menthol juice from JC, and was actually very disappointed with it. I'm vaping mostly FSUSA juices now except for a couple of different flavors I've gotten in trades and I am really enjoying the quality.

 

[Automaton]

Nope, I've used Rev 2 and Rev3. The lack of quality control was almost offensive. There are some happy customers out there, but even the cheerleaders for the CE2's will acknowledge these issues.

Most people I have read who are happy with the CE2's are not using them as they come "out of the box." Maybe you're the exception - but all the happy customers I've seen have spent nearly as much time trying to get the things to work right as they do vaping them. I'm just not willing to invest in a "build it yourself" cartomizer, which may not work anyway due to crushed/badly machined threads. And even after a very thorough cleaning, some of them tasted like hairspray. That's... concerning, to say the least.

 

[oettinger]

I may very well be wrong but my understanding of it is your 510's etc. had their origins with e-liquid.cn. Not from them directly but down the chain. There are many different companies/divisions all with direct ties to the main co./factory. Dekang/royal smokers/microcig/central trade/e-liguid.cn/intellicig and probably more are all basically the same co. just different divisions/names and they all originate at the factory.

You are right, and wrong. royal smokers/microcig/central trade/e-liguid.cn ARE all the same company, but they are DEFINATELY NOT the originator or manufacturer of the 510, 808, 901, 401 or eGo. This company make knockoffs of the originals that come from companies such as SLB, Bauway, Joye and Ruan. I have NEVER bought an e-cigarette part that came from there factory except for CE2 cartomizers. I make sure who ALL of my parts are manufactured by. e-liquid.cn has some VERY scathing reviews here from members that I trust. Based on the HORRIBLE service they have recieved, I will not purchase from this company directly. I may buy some more CE2 cartos, but I will buy them from trusted suppliers in the states.

 

[5cardstud]

I don't order outside the US. Nothing, not on ebay or anywhere else. I think they get enough of Americas money. I try to order US juice and US made mods. Another big reason is the shipping cost and the gamble on getting it taken by customs. Las Vegas is there if I need to gamble.

 

[DemonCleaner]

I totally DO get what you're saying though.

That's why I've started recommending people start with an eGo or something similar instead of the basic 510 like I started with. Too many of us upgrade within a week of starting - so much easier to bypass the basic unit and start with the big guns.

Yeah I love my ego...my progression is as follows. m601 - m401 - durac510 - ego. the only one I don't use is the m601 nothing but bad luck with those. But the other three i like for different reasons.

 

[irwink]

Nope, I've used Rev 2 and Rev3. The lack of quality control was almost offensive. There are some happy customers out there, but even the cheerleaders for the CE2's will acknowledge these issues.

Most people I have read who are happy with the CE2's are not using them as they come "out of the box." Maybe you're the exception - but all the happy customers I've seen have spent nearly as much time trying to get the things to work right as they do vaping them. I'm just not willing to invest in a "build it yourself" cartomizer, which may not work anyway due to crushed/badly machined threads. And even after a very thorough cleaning, some of them tasted like hairspray. That's... concerning, to say the least.

You are right. I am not using E2's as delivered. I am using an extremely simple ptb mod. That said after all is said and done I am still far happier with the work involved vs. performance of these cartomizers than I have been with any others I've used. Once again they are still a beta product in what is still a fledgling industry overall.

 

[Automaton]

Thing is, modding anything else is optional. If I mod my carts, they might perform a little better, hold more liquid, and waste less.

But if I don't mod them, they still vape well. I don't find myself needing to mod them out of necessity, just to get a good drag out of them.

With CE's, I do. Everyone does. They just don't work well as-is.

And with cartomizers, while mods do exist, very few people use them. Why?

The entire point of cartomizers is to be no-hassle. That is the reason they exist.

So what we have in a CE2, is a cartomizer that defeats the entire point of a cartomizer. Not only that, it's a "no-filler" cartomizer that almost requires filler to work well. They're selling them with strips of fiber now, so you can put filler in them. Seriously?

I understand it's a beta product. But they sell it to people as though it's actually usable for your average vaper, and it's not. It's only usable for someone who wants to fiddle with it as much as they vape it. And those kinds of people are not the same kinds who like cartomizers.

I possess the technical ability to make these little contradictions work - but I don't want to. Why should I have to?

It's a fledgling industry, but like I said, I have never felt like I needed to mod a cartomizer (or a cart, for that matter) just to get it to work. And if I did, no one would be surprised if I chose not to buy from them anymore. In fact, most people would probably follow suit.

We expect the things we buy from any other supplier to work. And they deliver. "Fledgling industry" or not, cartomizers, as a rule, work. Why are CE2's exempt?

A product that doesn't work as delivered, is not a real product. It's a rip-off, or a Lego kit, depending on how you want to look at it. And if these were ordinary carts or cartos, no one would argue that point.

Why is it that there is a small group of people who argue it with the CE2's? Why are the CE2's exempt from the universal law of "something you pay for which doesn't work as advertised is a rip-off?" I don't get it.

I could probably build my own cartomizer from left-over pieces that would work as well, or better. And it would be significantly cheaper. Free, in fact.

Why would I pay for a Lego set I can get for free? And why would I pay for a cartomizer that doesn't do what cartomizers are supposed to do?

 

[whippetroy]

I like the idea of buying from trusted american suppliers, and will wait until these cartos are ready for prime time.

 

[texastumbleweed]

i would listen to mistressnomad...

I dunno man. If you had good experiences with those suppliers, great. But... well, just look around the forums. They have a LOT of bad reviews.

I have never bought from them (due to their bad reviews), but I have used some of their products through trades - Royal Smokers and E-Liquid.cn in particular. And they were garbage. I feel sorry for the person who DID pay for them.

If you look at any of the CE2 threads, it's basically 70% complaints about the products and/or service. And I have yet to see any of their reps step in and address people directly on this forum. Maybe they have, I dunno - but I haven't seen it. And as my post count will tell you, I surf here a lot.

I've always bought US, from well-known and/or ECF suppliers. And I have never had a bad experience. Not once.

There are a couple Chinese suppliers I would trust based on their reviews - Heaven Gifts, Health Cabin, a couple others. But the ones you list... well, I just haven't seen a lot of people have good things to say about them.