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Well, it is what it is... A gift or a present is the transfer of something without the expectation of receiving something in return. I believe in the case of an IRS audit, they would most certainly not see payments for running a co-op to be gifts.
I'm addressing the legitimate idea that NFP means exactly that, not for profit. I then gave very real definitions that are used in determining what is a profit and what is a cost of getting this done. That being said, I don't feel it is ever clever, wise or prudent to be cute with reporting income, and I would never suggest that anybody try pulling it off. I suggested a real viable way of looking at the "profit" aspects of this and suggest we do it that way... not some clever workaround that fringes on semantic gymnastics.
I'll gladly pay for Dan's Labor, because that's what it is, but to even suggest that we just call it a "gift" I find offensive, and I'll have no part of that.
He should be paid a fair wage for his time and he most certainly CAN be without it violating the NFP request of the pwner of the prior art, which frankly is a questionable request. This is either in open source, or it's not. But THAT is another discussion that should be in Rolygates IP thread.
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I've been there. No one should throw caution to the wind and suggest such cost inclusions W/O 1st considering whether Dan wants to list such an endeavor and then list in legal documentation to the IRS why he truly made no profit. However if Dan is planning on doing this anyway because of some other venture he carrys on as a part of that... then there would just be the matter of listing net $0.00 gain on the venture... Which... believe me... is look at closely.
I don't want to see such a great person get burned by suggestions of a well wishing group of people. Gifting through Paypal or any other way is clearly dilineated as such and there are no questions.
Dan not to talk about you in the 3rd person... but I just thought perhaps I should say something. As I said this is Just my opinion.
Wage? Compensation? That is IRS "legaleez" for a business venture... You may not see it that way but the IRS is all business. They interpret things for the revenue of the Federal Gov't... And see things quite differently. I will say no more on this it is just that I don't like seeing business terminology thrown around in such a loose way. Take it for what it is worth folks...
I'll pull one of my teeth and put it under my pillow for one of those....Oh sorry you said atty fairy.
Actually, it makes no difference what you call it from my experience. The first thing the IRS does is stack up everything like this into a huge pile and call it unreported income. You, the taxpayer are then guilty until you prove yourself innocent. Meaning you have to document and explain everything that isn't income. That isn't necessarily hard, but it is time-consuming. I think Dan has been around the block a couple times, so I'm not gonna give him tax advice, I'm just going to continue to support him when I can, and I do suggest that he should at the very least build all his real expense into his coops.
TUS172, I understand the sentiment... but here's the thing... for what it's worth. An ethical person reports his true income.
All of it.
They don't decide what is easy, and what is not... they earn it... they report it. That's what the law says they should do, and they do it.
To hide it as a "gift" when we all know it's not... well, it's simply not ethical. My assumption here is that you're an ethical guy, that's what I get from the tone of your post, in fact, I am in no way suggesting that you are unethical... But I am saying you have suggested that we all participate in something which is inadvertently unethical. Dan is performing a service that we all want and appreciate... If there is a commercial venture going on, then it is what it is. If it's "hobby income" then it should rightfully be reported as such. If any of us give him a payment of any kind for performing a service of any kind, it's some form of income.
Calling it a gift doesn't change it.
All of it.
They don't decide what is easy, and what is not... they earn it... they report it. That's what the law says they should do, and they do it.
To hide it as a "gift" when we all know it's not... well, it's simply not ethical. My assumption here is that you're an ethical guy, that's what I get from the tone of your post, in fact, I am in no way suggesting that you are unethical... But I am saying you have suggested that we all participate in something which is inadvertently unethical. Dan is performing a service that we all want and appreciate... If there is a commercial venture going on, then it is what it is. If it's "hobby income" then it should rightfully be reported as such. If any of us give him a payment of any kind for performing a service of any kind, it's some form of income.
Calling it a gift doesn't change it.
I wonder if I put a few #16's under my pillow the Atty Fairy would leave me some 15's?
Just throwing this out there for people that feel the need to express long winded OPINIONS without knowing the actual law.
A nonprofit organization (abbreviated as NPO) is an organization that does not issue stock shares or distribute its surplus funds to owners or shareholders, but instead uses the funds to help achieve its goals.[1] Examples of NPOs include charities (i.e., charitable organizations), trade unions, trade associations and public arts organizations. Most governments and government agencies are described by this definition, but in most countries they are considered a separate type of organization and not considered as NPOs.
While Not-for-profit organizations are able to earn a profit, more accurately termed a surplus, such earnings must be retained by the organization for its self-preservation, expansion, or plans.
A nonprofit organization (abbreviated as NPO) is an organization that does not issue stock shares or distribute its surplus funds to owners or shareholders, but instead uses the funds to help achieve its goals.[1] Examples of NPOs include charities (i.e., charitable organizations), trade unions, trade associations and public arts organizations. Most governments and government agencies are described by this definition, but in most countries they are considered a separate type of organization and not considered as NPOs.
While Not-for-profit organizations are able to earn a profit, more accurately termed a surplus, such earnings must be retained by the organization for its self-preservation, expansion, or plans.
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