Seeing More Newbies going sub-ohm... Scary stuff.

[Glen Snyder]

I believe you are referring to a thread I made two days ago. I did not in fact know the ohms of my coil, but I did know that it was sub ohm. I would not have been using this without checking my resistance, but I was using sony vtc4's which I know have a high amp draw, and knew I would be fine not only because the batteries, but because I was swapping them out every 20 minutes or so with a freshly charged battery. I do actually already have a multimeter, but I did not realize I could check my ohms by going from the bottom post and grounding to the side or surface of my atomizer. Not defending my actions, because your right, I should have known what my ohms were before using the coil, but I felt safe knowing I had high rated batteries that were not even being used more than 20 minutes without a fresh one replacing it. Maybe this just gave me a false sense of safety. BUT I see where you are coming from, and the point you are making

Are you allowing your batteries to 'rest' after discharging/before recharging? This is a good practice to maximize the life of your LiMn cells

 

[element9633]

Are you allowing your batteries to 'rest' after discharging/before recharging? This is a good practice to maximize the life of your LiMn cells

hey glen, thanks for the input. I have 4 18650's that I rotate so it is normally a bit before I put a battery back on the charger after discharging. but I was not aware that allowing them to rest will help maximize my battery life. good thing to make note of!

 

[edyle]

0Ω = dead short

The post I was asking to mentioned 0.5 ohm, 0.25 ohm and checking ohms and shorts.

I agree with not selling someone who knows nothing about vaping a .5 Ohm coil.
IMO you need some kind of understanding of Ohm law before you sub ohm or even before you start building your own coils.
To vape any coil safely (I personally would not go below .25Ohm) all you need is 2 things
1. Ohm meter (Check ohms and shorts)
2. The right battery

At those numbers, you really have to clarify whether a short is 0.1, 0.01, 0.001 ohm.

Scientifically speaking 0 ohms would mean anywhere from 0.000* to 0.499*

For some people, the definition of a short is probably going to be - "When the battery vents"


The common cheap digital multi meter often reads a short as 1 ohm.
Typical electrical contacts are going to have variable resistance in the milli, centi, or deciohm range.

 

[t2ak]

Maybe the title of the thread:
"Seeing More Newbies going sub-ohm... Scary stuff."
Is being misinterpreted the other way around like "sub-ohmers are newbies"

Ugh I hope not.

 

[Zealous]

I believe you are referring to a thread I made two days ago. I did not in fact know the ohms of my coil, but I did know that it was sub ohm. I would not have been using this without checking my resistance, but I was using sony vtc4's which I know have a high amp draw, and knew I would be fine not only because the batteries, but because I was swapping them out every 20 minutes or so with a freshly charged battery. I do actually already have a multimeter, but I did not realize I could check my ohms by going from the bottom post and grounding to the side or surface of my atomizer. Not defending my actions, because your right, I should have known what my ohms were before using the coil, but I felt safe knowing I had high rated batteries that were not even being used more than 20 minutes without a fresh one replacing it. Maybe this just gave me a false sense of safety. BUT I see where you are coming from, your concerns,and the point you are making

edit: and just throwing this out there, I am not a "newbie". I have been involved and vaping for a year now, and I do know how to check if a build is safe for me to run with the batteries I am using.

I couldn't remember where I read it lol. I'm glad to know you are not new to vaping & therefore had a bit of knowledge about where you were playing. But it still scares me to read things like this since there's no way for anyone here to know who's new & who's not. And even though you're not new, someone who IS new, reading your post, might take it to mean that it's not that important to know for sure what the ohm is before throwing it onto your mod & hitting it. That also concerns me.

It's not sub ohmers that concern me as long as they know what they're doing. It's those that don't that concern me.

 

[element9633]

I couldn't remember where I read it lol. I'm glad to know you are not new to vaping & therefore had a bit of knowledge about where you were playing. But it still scares me to read things like this since there's no way for anyone here to know who's new & who's not. And even though you're not new, someone who IS new, reading your post, might take it to mean that it's not that important to know for sure what the ohm is before throwing it onto your mod & hitting it. That also concerns me.

It's not sub ohmers that concern me as long as they know what they're doing. It's those that don't that concern me.

True, and actually your right. I didn't consider the fact there were probably others new to vaping that could read that and think since I didn't check or didn't know my ohms, that its safe just to throw it on a mod and start vaping. I had thought of this before, that there should be a stickied thread giving safety concerns, and how to properly check if your build is safe. Maybe there is one and I didn't see it, but it would be good practice for everyone to have a link to that thread in their thread if it is like mine the other day

 

[Bunnykiller]

Not really the same at all.
The gun worked properly, and was safe to use as it was sold to the customer. His technique was bad.

No vape shops should be building sub-ohm coils for someone using a 18350.
That is more like selling a new shooter a gun with a jammed barrel, loading it up for them and sending them to the range to try it out. It doesn't matter the user's technique, the gun is unsafe to shoot.
Just like the sub-ohm setup using an 18350.

Yes, the user needs to do research on their own, but what they are sold should be safe to use the way it was sold to them.

you may have a minor point... but lets get to the real point
newbies buying good mods good toppers, good wire and wick but building subohm coils with subpar batteries
just like the gun buyer who buys a good gun, good brass, good powder and lead, but proceeds to load the brass with 22 grains more powder than the max allows because they wanted a really hot load, ultra magnum... they didnt know all the knowledge about reloading and it ends up with a blown cylinder...

 

[Glen Snyder]

The post I was asking to mentioned 0.5 ohm, 0.25 ohm and checking ohms and shorts.



At those numbers, you really have to clarify whether a short is 0.1, 0.01, 0.001 ohm.

Scientifically speaking 0 ohms would mean anywhere from 0.000* to 0.499*

For some people, the definition of a short is probably going to be - "When the battery vents"


The common cheap digital multi meter often reads a short as 1 ohm.
Typical electrical contacts are going to have variable resistance in the milli, centi, or deciohm range.

I'm going to respectfully disagree. It may be better to say 'for practical purposes' instead of 'scientifically'. To be precise, if there is a circuit (not shorted) there is resistance (Ω). That said, I think I'm on the same page as you. For most practical purposes the 0.000 to 0.499 is a short.

I would also agree with your 'cheap multi meter' assessment. Fortunately (for me at least) my Fieldpiece SC76 reads Ω down to 100ths

 

[Bunnykiller]

I'm going to respectfully disagree. It may be better to say 'for practical purposes' instead of 'scientifically'. To be precise, if there is a circuit (not shorted) there is resistance (Ω). That said, I think I'm on the same page as you. For most practical purposes the 0.000 to 0.499 is a short.

I would also agree with your 'cheap multi meter' assessment. Fortunately (for me at least) my Fieldpiece SC76 reads Ω down to 100ths

you got that right... its a short
kinda like traveling at 99.99 MPH compared to 100MPH its still too fast

 

[Mia11]

What kind of muppet puts one of these things near their face without fully understanding what it is, and what the inherent dangers are?

Gee I don't know. Maybe people who smoked cigarettes?

 

[edyle]

I'm going to respectfully disagree. It may be better to say 'for practical purposes' instead of 'scientifically'. To be precise, if there is a circuit (not shorted) there is resistance (Ω). That said, I think I'm on the same page as you. For most practical purposes the 0.000 to 0.499 is a short.

I would also agree with your 'cheap multi meter' assessment. Fortunately (for me at least) my Fieldpiece SC76 reads Ω down to 100ths

In terms of "0.5 ohm, 0.25 ohm and a short"

My query is what is the meaning of a short IN THIS CASE.

Or as you put it "for practical purposes".

I already querried whether this case, a short would be 0.1, 0.01, or 0.001

You have offered a possible answer: your Fieldpiece SC76 reads ohms down to 100ths so that would be it can read down to 0.01
Your Fieldpiece SC76 would read 0.00 on a 0.004 ohm resistance, so for the practical example of your Fieldpiece SC76, 0.004 ohm or lower is a short.
For somebody with a meter that reads to 1 tenth of an ohm, 0.04 ohm is a short.

Back to my question: when talking about 0.5 ohm coils and 0.25 ohm coils, and a short, how low would be considered a definite short?


On my vamo, I use 2 ohm coils;
Just last week, after rewicking a coil, I got 0.9 ohm or something while I was vaping; I call that a short in that case.

(btw, 0.000* means 0.000 recurring infinitely, not 0.000;
and scientific number convention is that
0.5 represents a value between 0.45 and 0.54
0.50 represents a value between 0.495 and 0.504)

 

[edyle]

you got that right... its a short
kinda like traveling at 99.99 MPH compared to 100MPH its still too fast

You're calling 0.499 ohm a short?

 

[supermarket]

I agree that the store that set this up for him are negligent at best.

However, people need to take responsibility for their own actions. What kind of muppet puts one of these things near their face without fully understanding what it is, and what the inherent dangers are?

Sooner or later, and especially with the media and political coverage at the moment, when one goes *bang* in someone's face, it will be all over the bloody news and, as commaholly points out, this just gives credence to the banning issue. It gets on my nerves.

I'm not sure I agree entirely on blaming the end user.

Let's think this through:

A man in his 30s, who wants to quit smoking cigs, gets recommended by a buddy at work to try ecigs. He finds his way into an e-cig store, and starts asking questions, feeling overwhelmed and confused.

The sales person recommends him a mod, tells him he will set everything up for him, even build his coils, yadda yadda. Man hands over cash, and walks out with a charged mod, pre built sub ohm coils, ready to go.

Maybe he didn't ask for subohm coils, had no idea what they are, and the sales person just wanted to make a commission or whatever, and sold him the mod with sub ohm prebuilt coils.

The man assumes it is safe, because as far as he knows, all he got was your typical , "high powered" ecig.


Of course we know this situation would probably be rare. And I also agree WE are responsible for what WE do with our toys/things we buy, etc. However, it doesn't take away from the fact that 1) It is a dangerous practice for ecig vendors to do this, and 2) you are always going to get people who are uninformed, and mis-use devices. making it EASIER for these people to get their hands on dangerous technology/tools/whatever isn't a good idea

 

[supermarket]

I can't speak for anyone else but I'm not jealous at all. And no AVD person has scared me. I guess I'm just content with what I have and don't have the time to rebuild and also am not much of a DIY. People get defensive about sub ohming which I don't get? Why not just do what you prefer and let others do the same?

I don't even do sub-ohming, but I totally understand why people get defensive about it. Go back and read the first comment you made. "I don't why people do it." Comments like that are made towards those who do all the time...and much worse comments even. People are constantly bashing those who choose to sub ohm.

It would be like me going into a thread everytime I see someone mention cartos, and say "Ugh, I don't understand at all why people use cartos!" It would get old after a while!

You asked, I'm just explaining.


To each their own.

 

[emus]

I'm going to respectfully disagree. It may be better to say 'for practical purposes' instead of 'scientifically'. To be precise, if there is a circuit (not shorted) there is resistance (Ω). That said, I think I'm on the same page as you. For most practical purposes the 0.000 to 0.499 is a short.

I would also agree with your 'cheap multi meter' assessment. Fortunately (for me at least) my Fieldpiece SC76 reads Ω down to 100ths

Yeah. I'm good. Mine is 0.5 ohms

My Fieldpiece HS36 stinks around the 1 ohm mark. Very disappointed. Oh well, my $5 black friday special DMM reads pretty good around 1 ohm range.

 

[Glen Snyder]

Yeah. I'm good. Mine is 0.5 ohms

My Fieldpiece HS36 stinks around the 1 ohm mark. Very disappointed. Oh well, my $5 black friday special DMM reads pretty good around 1 ohm range.

Are you in HVAC? I got mine for work in the biz about 10 years ago. No issues with it. I can't change heads like yours, it's the standard clamp on and NCV head for ac voltage and of course probes.

 

[ArtyPa]

Hi,
Was roaming around ECF and saw this thread.
Went to a B&M for first time yesterday just to look around.
Saw the posted disclaimers and even some customers signing waivers.
After reading most of this thread it occurred to me that the novice builders have a high knowledge hill to climb.
It will be an 'accidental build gone bad ' that will force government scrutiny and oversight to the hobbyist and amateur in the vapor community ( that means testing and license for builders and sellers)
That's the way these governmental intrusions begin..Incident...injury...inquiry....inquisition...finally public outrage forces oversight & regulation.
I'm not a hobbyist or builder. I just am seeing a Wild West element in my observance of the vapor enthusiasts .
The one thing the vaping movement DOESN'T need are needless build errors and incidents.

Just an observation.

Arty

 

[Bunnykiller]

You're calling 0.499 ohm a short?

yup sure am .... especially with the amps I normally work with.
I consider a short as is:
a low resistance that causes damage to the power supply, wires leading to the load, and/or the load its self under continious duty. ( 100% duty cycle)

 

[edyle]

yup sure am .... especially with the amps I normally work with.
I consider a short as is:
a low resistance that causes damage to the power supply, wires leading to the load, and/or the load its self under continious duty. ( 100% duty cycle)

I'm still a little scratching head here so, just to make sure I got this right,
You are saying the person who is running a 0.25 ohm coil is running on a shorted out battery, right?

 

[emus]

Are you in HVAC? I got mine for work in the biz about 10 years ago. No issues with it. I can't change heads like yours, it's the standard clamp on and NCV head for ac voltage and of course probes.

I repaired my HVAC and some family members. After paying three pros about $900 for not fixing it, I took matters into my own hands. All three told me I needed new unit. They all did some repair to it. You won't believe what problem was. My breaker box had a burnt aluminum breaker contact. Has three breakers total. This is why one of my heater coils didn't work and my heater stayed on near non-stop. Had I listened to the pros and got a new unit it would not even fix the problem

Needed a meter that could measure capacitance.

I just now got it out and noticed reading fluctuates if wiggle lead when lead is snapped all the way into socket. When I back lead out of socket 1/16" reading is stable. Maybe that's my problem. Are you suppose to push lead all the way in socket where it spins freely?