FDA Sen Johnson (R-Wis) demands answers from FDA RE deeming

[Racehorse]

when you try to motivate those actual vapers.... they want someone else to do it.

I have given up even trying to get the members of the ECF into being informed about what's happening.
I'm going to just shut my mouth and bury my head in the sand like most people these days.

Wow. This must be some kind of new advocacy called "guilting your peers" or something.

There's a whole science of psychology out there about what motivates people.

(I can assure you, this isn't one of them. )

I'm suprised, and saddened, to see this " vapers shaming other vapers" is still going on.

(I haven't checked in to these topics for a while, and that is one of the reasons). Maybe the topic is only for.........martyrs. Maybe that explains the 1%.


and By the way, Truthdog, do you have statistics showing that vapers "aren't doing anything?"

Ditto, Motordude?

Or is just not "showing up in these topics" proof enough (i.e. that vapers don't care, are lazy, unmotivated and not interested?)

Because that has not been my experience talking to vapers on this or any other forum.

 

[motordude]

Wow. This must be some kind of new advocacy called "guilting your peers" or something.

There's a whole science of psychology out there about what motivates people.

(I can assure you, this isn't one of them. )

I'm suprised, and saddened, to see this " vapers shaming other vapers" is still going on.

(I haven't checked in to these topics for a while, and that is one of the reasons). Maybe the topic is only for.........martyrs. Maybe that explains the 1%.

I guess I need a break from the forum too.
I'm going to continue to do my part, but no longer try to get others too. It has gotten old quick.
I applaud those who have been trying longer than me.
Maybe someone with a psychology degree has the patience and understanding.

 

[Truthdog]

Pardon me for perhaps appearing the deadhead…but what exactly is it we're fighting for at this juncture? Can someone articulate it in three points or less.

Good luck.

In 21 months virtually all products we use will be banned from the US. Probably all open systems and likely all flavors other than tobacco. Will put most mfgrs and retail out of business as well.


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[DPLongo22]

All we can really do is our part. No value in trying to motivate others, as those who are self-motivated don't need it, and those who need it, won't do it.

Just do our best, each of us, whatever that means. We'll see where it lands.

One example - I decided to cancel my Mastercard after their recent stance against vaping. I'm not trying to encourage others to do the same, but it's what I wanted to do.

If it was my only card, I'd not have cancelled it (to be clear). We can/should only do what we can, and may the forces be with us.

 

[DPLongo22]

In 21 months virtually all products we use will be banned from the US. Probably all open systems and likely all flavors other than tobacco. Will put most mfgrs and retail out of business as well.


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Unless Cole-Bishop makes it through (as is), you mean. Correct?

 

[Truthdog]

Wow. This must be some kind of new advocacy called "guilting your peers" or something.

There's a whole science of psychology out there about what motivates people.

(I can assure you, this isn't one of them. )

I'm suprised, and saddened, to see this " vapers shaming other vapers" is still going on.

(I haven't checked in to these topics for a while, and that is one of the reasons). Maybe the topic is only for.........martyrs. Maybe that explains the 1%.


and By the way, Truthdog, do you have statistics showing that vapers "aren't doing anything?"

Ditto, Motordude?

Or is just not "showing up in these topics" proof enough (i.e. that vapers don't care, are lazy, unmotivated and not interested?)

Because that has not been my experience talking to vapers on this or any other forum.

Facepalm: Shaming has nothing to do with it. Of course no one has "statistics" showing that some group is not taking an action.... but here's the only data I have - What I hear from House and Senate offices every day is that they are not hearing from real people on this issue, so they don't think it's a big deal. I am hearing this from our supporters and detractors.

Without a groundswell the reg will go forward and 98.7% of products will be banned.

Those are the facts on the ground. Feel free to do as little or as much as you wish.

I am well aware of motivational psychology tactics and that most people here are those who really do care and will take action to stand up for themselves. I was more hoping for suggestions on how to reach most average vapers who really just want to be left alone.
Some people are more complacent and content with letting others make their decisions for them. I am just not wired that way, and am going to put as much energy as I can into fighting this govt overreach, knowing we will all share the same fate.

Peace


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[KODIAK (TM)]

I might add that we'll most likely hear a ruling from the Judiciary regarding Nicopure's suit before Congress tackles any budgetary issues.

 

[MacTechVpr]

Pardon me for my seemingly stupid inquiry but I have some problem with the legality if not lawfulness of classifying an organic molecule a tree, or a flower, or tobacco to meet a legislative need. Still after three years here trying to figure why we're circling the wagons rather than charging the village idiots. It seems to me that for change to happen, change must come. Now maybe with some feathers plucked from these turkeys mebe we can toss the scattergun and go for the jugular? Attack the premises more directly than the resulting regulatory quagmire. All roads lead from this legislative nexus to the states. It's the head we want of all the ensuing conflated "law". At least that seems reasonable to me. Gotta go work on the 4-wheeler.

Good luck.

 

[DPLongo22]

Pardon me for my seemingly stupid inquiry but I have some problem with the legality if not lawfulness of classifying an organic molecule a tree, or a flower, or tobacco to meet a legislative need. Still after three years here trying to figure why we're circling the wagons rather than charging the village idiots. It seems to me that for change to happen, change must come. Now maybe with some feathers plucked from these turkeys mebe we can toss the scattergun and go for the jugular? Attack the premises more directly than the resulting regulatory quagmire. All roads lead from this legislative nexus to the states. It's the head we want of all the ensuing conflated "law". At least that seems reasonable to me. Gotta go work on the 4-wheeler.

Good luck.

Not stupid at all. Quite insightful and accurate in my opinion.

The overreach exhibited by this agency is absolutely staggering. I get what you're saying but I'm not sure a physical attack on a governing body is in our best interest at this time.

That's not to say that I don't LIKE the idea (because I DO), but it might better if we follow the legislative processes, with the threat of not getting re-elected hanging over their heads.

The best thing we can probably do right now is pick up the phone.

For now.

 

[r055co]

I know how you feel brother. I'm the lobbyist for SFATA, and the retail and manufacturers are all involved and doing all they can. But when you try to motivate those actual vapers.... they want someone else to do it. Even the old guys! It's crazy! They'll stockpile $5000 worth of crap, but won't fight for the right to not have to do it.

Ok, let me have it from the couch fellas.


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Barely 10% of the retailers are involved, that is 90% of the problem. I have been in many Vape shops and I've only seen one who has anything posted on the wall or literature on the facts and involvement. Yes, one, only one.

That is the majority of the problem

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[Lessifer]

Barely 10% of the retailers are involved, that is 90% of the problem. I have been in many Vape shops and I've only seen one who has anything posted on the wall or literature on the facts and involvement. Yes, one, only one.

That is the majority of the problem

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No no no, it's the fault of all of the vapers who aren't even aware there is a problem. The reason they're not aware is obviously the fault of the vapers who ARE aware and just haven't been doing enough to reach out to those whom they never have contact with. It's definitely not the vendors who sell products to those vapers.

 

[r055co]

No no no, it's the fault of all of the vapers who aren't even aware there is a problem. The reason they're not aware is obviously the fault of the vapers who ARE aware and just haven't been doing enough to reach out to those whom they never have contact with. It's definitely not the vendors who sell products to those vapers.

Also I have been asked in a lot of the other shops not to bring up the FDA or what has been going on.

The very few shops that do actually promote advocacy have all told me about the lack of participation of the retailers at the state and national level.

Yep, less than 10%of the retailers are involved, but it's all the vapers fault, isn't it?

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[zoiDman]

No no no, it's the fault of all of the vapers who aren't even aware there is a problem. The reason they're not aware is obviously the fault of the vapers who ARE aware and just haven't been doing enough to reach out to those whom they never have contact with. It's definitely not the vendors who sell products to those vapers.

If this Wasn't True, it would be Funny. But it is True. So it Isn't Funny. In Fact, it is kinda Pathetic.

And about the Only Thing More Pathetic is hearing that Retailers have done All that they Can.

Ya know that Feeling you get when you sorta Throw Up a Little Bit in the Back of your Throat? That's what I get when think about the Effort that Most Retailers have put into making Vapers aware of what is going on.

 

[zoiDman]

Also I have been asked in a lot of the other shops not to bring up the FDA or what has been going on.

The very few shops that do actually promote advocacy have all told me about the lack of participation of the retailers at the state and national level.

Yep, less than 10%of the retailers are involved, but it's all the vapers fault, isn't it?

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I wouldn't limit it to just the FDA.

OK... Just for Fun, I typed "PA Vape Shop" into Google. Got Lots of Results for PA Based Vape Shops.

So I Randomly selected 9 Shops, 3 from each of the first 3 pages of results.

And out of the 9 Vape Shop web Sites I visited, NONE of them had any information on them about a PA Tax Petition. Although one had a Very Touching Story about how the Owner quit smoking on Christmas Day for his Children.

So I guess it could be 40 Years of TC Brainwashing that is keeping PA Vaper's from signing that Petition? Or maybe Not Enough PA Vapers know there is a Petition?

 

[r055co]

If this Wasn't True, it would be Funny. But it is True. So it Isn't Funny. In Fact, it is kinda Pathetic.

And about the Only Thing More Pathetic is hearing that Retailers have done All that they Can.

Ya know that Feeling you get when you sorta Throw Up a Little Bit in the Back of your Throat? That's what I get when think about the Effort that Most Retailers have put into making Vapers aware of what is going on.

Yep.

I have a question also. With the FDA requirements of charging for testing, how many retailers are donating those charges and how many just pocket the money?

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[r055co]

I wouldn't limit it to just the FDA.

Actually I don't, I go into the Politicians getting money also. Then Big Pharma, etc.

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[zoiDman]

Yep.

I have a question also. With the FDA requirements of charging for testing, how many retailers are donating those charges and how many just pocket the money?

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Hard to say.

But I think Most Retailers are just Playing Out the String. And don't really give a Damn as long as they don't get caught with a lot of Inventory when the Hit the End of the Road.

Not All. But the Vast Majority.

 

[Truthdog]

If this Wasn't True, it would be Funny. But it is True. So it Isn't Funny. In Fact, it is kinda Pathetic.

And about the Only Thing More Pathetic is hearing that Retailers have done All that they Can.

Ya know that Feeling you get when you sorta Throw Up a Little Bit in the Back of your Throat? That's what I get when think about the Effort that Most Retailers have put into making Vapers aware of what is going on.

A lot of people here are a little fixated on blame assignment here. In my experience that exercise is not very helpful/productive/intelligent. I never viewed this struggle as retailer versus vaper, as I thought that we were all in this against the FDA and company. But I seem to be alone in that, and apologize if I am misguided.

I was hoping to have a productive discussion on the best strategies to beat back a terrible regulatory regime, but seems like I'm looking in the wrong place here.

Good luck all, I'm out.


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[zoiDman]

A lot of people here are a little fixated on blame assignment here. In my experience that exercise is not very helpful/productive/intelligent. I never viewed this struggle as retailer versus vaper, as I thought that we were all in this against the FDA and company. But I seem to be alone in that, and apologize if I am misguided.

I was hoping to have a productive discussion on the best strategies to beat back a terrible regulatory regime, but seems like I'm looking in the wrong place here.

Good luck all, I'm out.


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You can View it Any Way you Want.

But the Sad Reality is How are you going to formulate "strategies to beat back a terrible regulatory regime" without the Support and Involvement of Retailers?

The People who Participate in these Threads know the Answer to that Question.

If you want More to be Done, I suggest you Reach the 98% of the Vaper's in this Country who are Not Active members of a Vaping Forum.

And the Only way I can see to Do That is via Retailers.

 

[r77r7r]

Good luck all, I'm out.

CeeYa. Some were here long b4 you and will be vaping long after.

Sigh. All the petitions signed from here and all the donations made...