Shocking Numbers

[DataPhreak]

Ran across this article somewhere else and thought these nubmers were shocking: Effect of an electronic nicotine delivery device (... [Tob Control. 2010] - PubMed result

It's about six months old and I'm sure a lot of people have read it, but I just can't get past the last line.

RESULTS: Over 60 min, participants using 16 mg ENDD recorded 0.82 units less desire to smoke than the placebo ENDD (p=0.006). No difference in desire to smoke was found between 16 mg ENDD and inhalator. ENDDs were more pleasant to use than inhalator (p=0.016) and produced less irritation of mouth and throat (p<0.001). On average, the ENDD increased serum nicotine to a peak of 1.3 mg/ml in 19.6 min, the inhalator to 2.1 ng/ml in 32 min and cigarettes to 13.4 ng/ml in 14.3 min.

1.3 mg/ml from the e-cig, where cigarettes are to 13.4ng/ml surely they meant to write 1.3ng/ml for the ecig, as a mg of pure nicotine is roughly the size of a grain of salt and I believe enough to kill a man. To have 1.3mg per mil of serum is enough to kill a herd of stampeding elephants.

So, i'm sure they meant nanograms and not milligrams. That being said, I'm shocked that they're not providing more. They were using a Ruyan v8, which I think is comparable to the kr808d, which I used for a long time. I always felt that I got almost the same amount of nicotine satisfaction as a regular cigarette. Of course I was using the 36mg carts, which are more than twice as strong. That still only puts me at 25% of the blood toxicity of regular cigarettes.

Also note that these levels are peak levels over time, which means they were monitoring the blood as they used the product.

 

[StormFinch]

This line; "The 16 mg Ruyan V8 ENDD alleviated desire to smoke after overnight abstinence, was well tolerated and had a pharmacokinetic profile more like the Nicorette inhalator than a tobacco cigarette." tells me that yeah, someone probably made a typo. It's been mentioned several times by several different scientists that we are only absorbing between 10% and 40%, depending on our vape style, of the nicotine in our liquid. Nice catch though.

Keep your eye out for two new studies coming out in the near future, one by doctors in Boston and the other done at Virginia Commonwealth. I haven't paid a lot of attention to the Boston study, but I know the VC study is measuring nic levels.

 

[DataPhreak]

I expect nicotine levels will average around 1/10th that of traditional cigarettes again. I swear, you'd have to be smoking a fog machine to get nicotine levels like a regular cigarette.

Hey, that's an idea, rig up a battery operated fog machine to take to a demonstration. They ban ecigs, they'd have to ban those too.

 

[DataPhreak]

Something else I ran across:

"The drugs are approved because they've shown in FDA studies that they're better than placebo," said by Dr. Edward Levin, in refference to Chantix. Source: Smokers still struggle to quit, even with anti-smoking drugs - Mar. 12, 2008

 

[DataPhreak]

More interesting facts:

There are 46 million U.S. adults who smoke and approximately 400,000 people who die each year from their own cigarette smoking.
(Source: TobaccoFreeKids.org)

"The AAPHP Task Force, on the basis of extensive literature review and analysis, has concluded that a national harm reduction initiative, based partly on the potential attractiveness of E-cigarettes to current smokers, could save the lives of 4 million of the 8 million current adult American smokers who will otherwise die of a tobacco-related illness over the next 20 years."
(Source: Joel L. Nitzkin, MD, AAPHP White Paper: The E-Cigarette in the Context of Overall Tobacco Control)

Do the math. These two statements, when used together, clearly state that electronic cigarettes could potentially save 50-100% of smokers who would otherwise die of smoking related illness over the next 20 years.

 

[ElProximo]

Sorry I didn't get through the entire article in detail yet but here is a big question I have: What kind of e-cig and juice were they using in this experiment?

I ask because I have no doubt that a super-mini with 16mg juice AND keep in mind some smokers not familiar with vaping techniques would end up with about 1/10th
IF you were using (for example) an Ego and healthy atomizer and say... a 24 mg juice... AND maybe giving the test subjects a little time to 'perfect' vaping style draws?
I'm sure there would be a massive difference.

I'm convinced there is quite a difference in nicotine delivery for me. A tobacco stick is still a fast 'rabbit' of nicotine to me in 5 minutes I'm 'loaded up'.
Vaping seems to me about a 20 minutes 'turtle' of nicotine but possibly seems to last longer too.

Anyways.. yeah, I really wonder just what e-cigs and juice and were the people experience with an e-cig as much as they were with dragging (drawing, inhaling) cigarettes?

Very interesting stuff.

 

[DataPhreak]

I believe this was done with a mall kiosk brand. I don't believe that any paticular juice was used, but I doubt it was of high caliber. Pretty sure they were all new vapers, but this survey was somewhere around the 6 month line, so those who had kept at it would have had time to perfect their technique and may have even upgraded to a better model. I believe all of this info was gathered on CASAA.org. (I drink alcohol) So you can probably find the research reports this information was taken from there.

 

[DaveP]

What I've read indicates that we get about 10% or the nicotine per puff from Ecigs that we get from a tobacco cig. Of course, that would vary with full flavor through ultra lights and from mini ecigs up to megas, tanks, and mods.

 

[ElProximo]

I believe this was done with a mall kiosk brand. I don't believe that any paticular juice was used, but I doubt it was of high caliber. Pretty sure they were all new vapers,

This makes all the difference I'd say. The first time I tried a 'mini' I was (naturally) trying to inhale like a cigarette and not quite getting 'full vapes' at the time. Add to that those are quite small and I'd go as far to say less than 25% of the 'vapor cloud' you could pull off a new Ego (for example).
Then I'd just go ahead and guess a 8ml juice or a 16 or a 24 etc.. of course that has to be a difference.

My experience.. and just from what I observe from others.. Vapers seem to tend to be 'turtles' for their nicotine hit. Maybe twice as long as a cigarette but also more time between inhales.
So I wonder about that too.

Anyways.. yes, I will try and follow up on these. I think there will be more coming soon.

 

[MrSmith99]

Perhaps there is something else to take away from that study. That it doesn't really take much nicotine to keep the physical heebie jeebies away. That is, a little nic will kill most of the withdraw symptoms. The rest may be mental, hand to mouth, vapor, TH, habit, ect... Just a thought.