should we be stocking up just in case

[DJ RyckRak]

And let's not forgot the two largest retailers in the United States....
Amazon and Wal-mart...you can't buy any vaping gear or supplies there.
I was just in Wal-mart: cigarettes, patches, gum and pills are available
....and three small bottles of VG. (I always check to see )
Saw a guy stealth vaping a BLU in the produce section...
Only the second Vaper I have seen here.

 

[Over_Stimulation]

And let's not forgot the two largest retailers in the United States....
Amazon and Wal-mart...you can't buy any Vaping gear or supplies there.
I was just in Wal-mart: cigarettes, patches, gum and pills are available
....and three small bottles of VG. (I always check to see )
Saw a guy stealth Vaping a BLU in the produce section...
Only the second Vaper I have seen here.

my wally world (outside of Atlanta) is now advertising Njoys and Blu's n such as of last week

 

[Racehorse]

Now, look at all the other stuff the government has its hands in as far as your life is concerned..

Eveyrone where i live says that......then they complain when you tell them there will no longer be any maintenance to the Washington Monument, natural disaster assistance, relay of weather reports, or anything else......then they complain more about lack of services. I live in a town built by federal grants..... community college, airport, hospitals, public swimming pools, parks, etc. (all done with federal grant $$). This would be a desolate frontier town otherwise, in the most depressed situation you can imagine, esp. after all the tornadoes.

They also complain when their bank money is no longer insured by the FDIC, they are driving unsafe cars, and find out the no longer can expect electricity due to no government-owned and maintained hydroelectric dams or facilities, ect.

when you change the world, please let the rest of us know who is going to do this stuff, and more importantly, HOW MUCH is it going to cost us when it is all privatized? A lot I can betcha.

I imagine several vaping hardware designers have US Patents.....Igood luck finding somebody else to register all that stuff for ya, too, when the US patent office disappears.

And next time your cell phone provider gives you a $5,000 bill for calls you didn't make, please don't call the Telecommunications division and don't call the DOJ when your identity has been stolen either.

As for regulating what we injest, hope you don't mind going to a restaurant who is sneaking road kill, diseased animals and such, onto your plate. And make sure you buy lots of e-coli tainted beef in your supermarket. And enjoy your big bowl of ice cream.....just test it first w/your own lab, to make sure it's not salmonella-laden from the trucks that didn't get inspected.

Ya'll crack me up.

Some of us DO know exactly what the government has it's hands on .... and we are grateful to have it. Some just have no clue, but are the first to complain when it goes away.

Hopefully, there are some logical minds and cool heads around the vaping community, who don't feel it is necessary to DISMANTLE an entire system just to get one thing accomplished.

 

[stacee jaxx]

If "paying off" court officials is what gets the haters what they want why doesn't someone trying to defend their own right to vape pay off the officials before the haters do ?. If that's the way you think things work.

But i still can't get my head round it all. If false evidence is presented to the courts to ban vaping...... Oh d'you know what. Forget i even said anything....If no one is going to be present in court to contest the so called evidence then all the lobbying in the world is not going to stop banning or regulations is it !. So i can imagine what's been gong on in court now. False evidence is used to impose a ban and the only people contesting it are all standing "outside the building" with banners complaining about it. Yeah way to go !.

 

[Baditude]

If "paying off" court officials is what gets the haters what they want why doesn't someone trying to defend their own right to vape pay off the officials before the haters do ?. If that's the way you think things work.

But i still can't get my head round it all. If false evidence is presented to the courts to ban vaping...... Oh d'you know what. Forget i even said anything....If no one is going to be present in court to contest the so called evidence then all the lobbying in the world is not going to stop banning or regulations is it !. So i can imagine what's been gong on in court now. False evidence is used to impose a ban and the only people contesting it are all standing "outside the building" with banners complaining about it. Yeah way to go !.

You obviously have not taken anyone's advice and even looked at the CASAA website or you would not be asking those questions. As I have been saying throughout this thread, they have been and will be the vapors' advocate where vapors' issues need to be attended to. They will not be outside the building with banners, but will be in the courtroom countering and contesting what the FDA and the special interest groups will be reporting, and also presenting honest information about vaping.

Here is a link to successful CASAA calls of action: http://casaa.org/Successful_Campaigns.html

You talked about "paying off" court officials before the haters do. Well, where would that money come from? CASAA is a volunteer organization. What money they have comes strictly from donations by members and is used for their expenses to attend all these legal hearings. Plus, keep in mind the big money that the special interest groups have. Big Tobacco and Big Pharmacy have budgets that CASAA and vapors would not be able to compete with.

Slanted information is being presented by such world wide organizations as the World Health Organization, too. Look at the skewered information being presented by WHO on their website: http://search.who.int/search?q=electronic+cigarettes&ie=utf8&site=default_collection&client=_en&proxystylesheet=_en&output=xml_no_dtd&oe=utf8&getfields=doctype


I won't be doing any more homework for you, you look like a big boy. Use this link and educate yourself: http://casaa.org/Home_Page.php

I'm doing my part alerting those not in the know of what is happening presently and can happen in the near future concerning electronic cigarettes. You, my friend, are a detriment to those efforts by refusing to accept the truth when it is being offered to you and telling people not to fear the FDA, Tobacco, or Pharmacy, as it will all magically work out in our favor. Nothing could be farther from the truth.

 

[cheesemaker]

Yup. Stock like there's no tomorrow....

 

[mikepetro]

Why do you think Paypal will not process any payments to vaping supply companies "based in the US"?

Ummm, I have placed quite a few vaping orders (to US vendors) using Paypal, havent run into an issue yet????

 

[grandmato5]

Ummm, I have placed quite a few vaping orders (to US vendors) using Paypal, havent run into an issue yet????

If they are US vendors and Paypal catches the fact that they are selling ecig stuff they will be immediately shut down and may loose any funds they have in their paypal accounts. Yes, there are people that sell ecig stuff that are willing to gamble and take that chance.

 

[westy78]

Bad, thanks for reminding us all to join CASAA. I just did!

 

[DJ RyckRak]

Keep it Real !

If you enjoy Vaping-
If you, or someone you know has been helped by e-cigs-
If you believe that people have the right to be 'tobacco-free'-
then join CASAA today !

It's Free-
They are working for Vapers Rights-
They Need Your Support.
It's Important !

 

[Aheadatime]

Some of the comments here are embarrassing to read.

The FDA is in bed with pharmaceutical companies, tobacco companies, and large corporate "food" based entities such as Monsanto. These entities pay alot of money to the FDA in order for regulations to swing their way, and to mutually benefit every entity involved. Smoking tobacco is legal because they have the money to sway the FDA in their favor regardless of the clinically proven negative health impacts, which in turn hands over a bunch of unhealthy patients to the pharmaceutical companies, who make a killing off of harmful pills and drugs they push onto their patients after having these pills and drugs FDA approved, even though side effects range from blood in stool to suicidal tendencies. At the end of the day, they're all much richer and were all much less healthy.

Ecigs put a dent in all of that. Tobacco companies lose out and since we are healthier and no longer need prescriptions for "tobaccoless" substances, heart conditions, blood regulators, or any number of those mercury-filled drugs, the pharmaceutical companies lose out. Obviously, they're not happy about this, especially considering that ecig use has only been growing since it's introduction. Better to stomp out 'competition' sooner than later (re - the 2007/09 customs scandal), as they know if vaping becomes much larger, it will be backed by more people and in turn, more money, data, and statistics.

Enter the April hearings. Big tobacco and big pharma will be paying a lootttttttt of money to lobby the FDA and attempt to sway the hearing's results in their favor. It is possible that they will regulate(a synonym for 'overtax') liquid nicotine, the devices labeled as ecig related, and halt imports until they declare what is legal and what is 'too dangerous'. This is subjective and far-reaching, and could result in a scenario where nic% is limited to 5 or less, vendors are hurt and forced to dramatically increase prices for an inferior product, and the devices we all know and love become illegal.

It is possible it doesn't go this way. We don't know what will happen. Sitting back and saying "it can't happen" is foolish and lazy minded. I joined CASAA and have my eyes on the Calls to action. I have also semi stocked up on liquid. I will be studying RBAs and learning as much as I can not only for myself, but to pass the knowledge down should the time deem it necessary to do so. Don't shy away from something because the little voice in your head is telling you its a 'conspiracy', and don't buy thousands of ml's of liquid because the little voice in your head is whispering 'my precious'. Keep a level head and examine all possibilities. Act accordingly.

 

[Cooterjohnson]

Of course we are taking money out of the big boys pocket and its going have its drawbacks. but as long as everyone comes together and puts the bans down we are all going to be fine.

 

[ageispolis]

I'm fairly new to this, but am planning to get a couple of mechanical mods and RBAs before April.. I was planning on purchasing one anyway. I already have plenty nic in my freezer for DIY, and plan to learn as I go if needed..

Maybe I'm over-preparing by ordering some things a little sooner than I was planning to, but all of it will be put to good use.

 

[aikanae1]

Of course we are taking money out of the big boys pocket and its going have its drawbacks. but as long as everyone comes together and puts the bans down we are all going to be fine.

CASAA has 15,000 members. The draft versions probably has been written already by lawyers and lobbyists of interested corporations. Agencies don't write their own laws anymore than legislators or congress does. It's handed to them and sometimes, it's not even read first, including by the enforcing agency.

This isn't just e-cigs it's happened too. One thing for sure is that they can pull payment processing down to a dwindle, if not end all online sales from everywhere in a heartbeat. This has been done WITHOUT any legal support or laws, over and over again. This doesn't apply to just tobacco products but that's the reason cigarettes aren't sold online because of payment processing. I used to order from a company in Kentucky, then in eastern europe; they all tried various vouchers (buy those and pay for cigs with vouchers), changed names, used various other payment systems like Bitcoin (and a couple of others are well-known), Western Union, etc. The penalties for importing cigarettes without the state tax seal were increased dramatically - and payment processing tightened up the more creative people got until now it's a flip of a switch. And they can find you if it takes one year or four years. They will find you. It is the end of an industry faster than you can blink without payment processing. They make customs look like small fry.

There has been some success using pre-paid and VPN services or TOR, plus payment processing through europe, but even Russia has clamped down on it. Strange days when ex-communist countries had become the champions of capitalism for awhile. But that's gone. The US has become the policeman for the world. If it's illegal in the US, it's illegal everywhere. Racketeering and money laundering charges are drafted to include buying an ad and paying for web hosting if your on the 'wrong side' per DOJ. Do they even read the stuff before sending in a swat team, nope. It's written by industry lawyers. No one wants to sell to the US under those conditions. They may be doing something perfectly legit in their country and yet they can be charged, extradited based on US law. Crazy.

This is because of "privatization" that all our governmental agencies are now headed by industry leaders / lobbyists / anti-regulation. Thanks "smaller government" folks. Soon we'll be like Somalia. The FDA USED to be a good agency, watched out for public welfare .... USED to be.

I'm surprised and saddened by WHO's stance since I've had contact with them. They had faults, but generally came to independent, but dependable conclusions on the side with "good for the public". Obviously that's changed.

 

[Baditude]

Aikanae1, your commentary makes me even more pessamistic than I already was.

What can we do as individuals and as a group? What are your recommendation?

I have confidence that CASAA will do what they can, but it seems the odds are stacked against them. I have a sick feeling that the FDA already has made a decision and knows what they will do before even stepping into the court room to hear arguments.

 

[westy78]

Smoking tobacco is legal because they have the money to sway the FDA in their favor regardless of the clinically proven negative health impacts...

I agree substantially with the rest of this post, but I think a distinction would be helpful: cigarettes are not legal because of the power of the BT/BP lobby over the FDA. They are legal because Congress did not intend tobacco products to be under the jurisdiction of the FDA when it was created, and subsequent to creating the FDA, Congress passed a number of laws concerning the tobacco industry. When the Clinton FDA attempted to regulate cigarettes, the Supreme Court ruled in FDA v Brown and Williamson that the FDA did not have jurisdiction; Congress did not intend that they should, or they would not have legislated a regulatory structure for tobacco. In 2009 Congress did give the FDA some powers to regulate the tobacco industry in FSPTCA. This act does not grant the FDA power to ban cigarettes as far as I am aware. (Ecigs, as a new product, and unlike cigarettes, do not have the force of big money, history, culture, or numbers behind them to keep them from being banned or heavily regulated. This, and the Obama FDA's 2009 overreach that was stopped by Judge Leon, is why there is an atmosphere of uncertainty and concern.)

That being said, BP benefits greatly from the status quo, and will be spending big bucks to keep ecigs from encroaching on their sacred territory. I don't know how much of this money is spent in underhanded/illegal ways, but the misinformation campaign against ecigs is unquestionable.

The little voice in my head isn't saying "my precious!", but based on history and fact it is telling me there's a good chance the world of vaping will be changed significantly soon. I'm acting accordingly.

 

[The Ocelot]

Every new member needs to be aware of how easily we could lose access to the products that helped us quit smoking. The "General Public" is not on our side. Do you think anyone cares about ex-smokers staying off of tobacco when they read articles stating that if e-cigs aren't blocked it would, in effect, be saying they were harmless and children would take up vaping?

 

[westy78]

One of the things I enjoy about ECF is that it's relatively free of extraneous politics. That's why I tried to be dispassionate in my last post, out of respect for everyone else. But...

...this is because of "privatization" that all our governmental agencies are now headed by industry leaders / lobbyists / anti-regulation. Thanks "smaller government" folks.

WRONG! Call it corruption if you like, but more regulation and less liberty is not what "smaller government" people are in favor of. The overreaches of the past--and the current deeming regulation proposal--are the stock and trade of the nanny state mentality of those who think we need a benevolent government to make our decisions for us. When we make "bad" decisions, they think the government's job is to tax or criminalize us into conformance.

Respectfully, I think you misunderstand those you are blaming for this. We're all in this together. There is no need to split the vaping community this way. It's a sure way to lose this battle.

In my view, there are two issues in play. One is liberty and the limits of the federal government's power. If that doesn't resonate with people, the second is the simple pragmatic argument for harm reduction. I think we can all unite behind that.

 

[Aheadatime]

That being said, BP benefits greatly from the status quo, and will be spending big bucks to keep ecigs from encroaching on their sacred territory. I don't know how much of this money is spent in underhanded/illegal ways, but the misinformation campaign against ecigs is unquestionable.

The little voice in my head isn't saying "my precious!", but based on history and fact it is telling me there's a good chance the world of vaping will be changed significantly soon. I'm acting accordingly.

Thanks for the correction, I appreciate it(no sarcasm). Its important to note that the current head of FDA's center for tobacco products (Mitch Zeller) used to be essentially working for big pharma.

"Zeller was an executive for Pinney Associates, a pharmaceutical consulting firm that does work for GlaxoSmithKline. GlaxoSmithKline is the top seller of nicotine-replacement therapy (NRT), including Nicorette and Nicoderm"

You think that guy is going to be cool with his firm losing out on sales? All of us vapers were potential "NRT" customers of his, and now we are not. The FDA is not lead by people who have our interest at heart, and this is the take-away point I was trying to make. Its not hard to follow the money trail with issues like this. Even if the FDA was in absolute control over the fate of tobacco in general, cigarettes would continue to sell and the cycle would continue in the name of profiteering.

And don't worry, I'm doing my own stockpiling over here too, just not too hardcore. The reality is that I'm using a PV to quit nicotine altogether. I currently rotate between 9mg and 6mg, and will only go down from here. I think it's important to fight for your natural rights (like ingesting whatever you want without the government having a say), but I was making the 'precious' point to get people centered. Were ultimately on a journey to rid ourselves of addiction. I feel I'm making good progress. The anger I feel towards this hearing does stem from my own personal rights potentially being limited yet again, but it mostly stems from the potential millions of cigarette smokers who may never get to make such a helpful and effective switch.

 

[Aheadatime]

In my view, there are two issues in play. One is liberty and the limits of the federal government's power. If that doesn't resonate with people, than we should be ashamed of ourselves.

^ Subjectively edited. Its interesting how this thread ended up reflecting much larger issues that we deal with currently in our nation and in the world in general. I'm glad this thread has been given the attention it deserves.