should we be stocking up just in case

[Starlyte2]

What ? Look if you think that there are groups influencing the FDA with false information that's fair enough i don't doubt it.

If i were a vendor and going to be put out of business because of this then i would be there, in court, with a lawyer to dispell any rumours put forward by these groups. Perjury is a criminal offence. If these hate groups do influence the courts then, according to you, these groups would be guilty of perjury right ?. So an appeal would not just be based on the business of electric cigarette legality but would also call on those people that committed perjury in the first place. And they will be held to account. Perjury is a serious criminal offence. They have to be able to backup their claims. You say their claims are false. So what are you worried about ?.

Of gourse the FDA, the EUParliment, etc are influenced by Anti-Ecigists. It would, mostly, be very hard to prove, but I'm sure it is true. So everything will go Black Market. It is one BIG ....TY HASSLE, and all that for money...what a sad world we live in.

 

[cags]

It's peeps like yourself that will ruin it for everyone - creating the shortage now will only bring more attention to ecigs in general. But I guess as long as you're set, that's all that matters...

oh please

 

[NickSteel]

I don't think hoarding is going to dry up the market soon. Many of us keep a fair amount of e-liquid simply because it often goes on sale in bulk bottles. For example, $32 per 236ml I purchased a week or so ago. If restrictions don't occur, people will use their existing stocks first. If they do occur, it doesn't matter anyway. I do fear we will be affected in the next few months and can only hope things work out.

Vapers are a creative lot, so, in the worst case, we'll all plot, scheme and try to find a way. At least tobacco is legal to home grow. Would need some really creative processing techniques to avoid health hazards, though.

My personal "hoard" is about 800ml at present. I'll increase it if any liquids I like go on sale.

I smoked because I was addicted. I vape because I actually enjoy it.

 

[Horselady154]

I am beginning to realise most here aren't going to change their minds about their attitude towards pending regulations. Again i feel the need to point out that vendors ignore "basic" requirements that the consumers expect. That is the only thing wrong with the industry. You have to be blind not to see it. Take a look at the bottles of e liquid you have at home. Do you see labels similar to any other product you might buy from the supermarket stating various facts about the contents.

Why do so many people have difficulty understanding this.

If enough customers demand such information, successful vendors will provide it.

Why do some have difficulty understanding basic economics.

 

[brassmonkey]

as long as you got your mods i wouldnt worry. even then its easy to make a mod, plus theres always gonna be a way to make your own juices

 

[Horselady154]

What ? Look if you think that there are groups influencing the FDA with false information that's fair enough i don't doubt it.

If i were a vendor and going to be put out of business because of this then i would be there, in court, with a lawyer to dispell any rumours put forward by these groups. Perjury is a criminal offence. If these hate groups do influence the courts then, according to you, these groups would be guilty of perjury right ?. So an appeal would not just be based on the business of electric cigarette legality but would also call on those people that committed perjury in the first place. And they will be held to account. Perjury is a serious criminal offence. They have to be able to backup their claims. You say their claims are false. So what are you worried about ?.

Geez man, don't you know that our out of control government is largely run today by special interests buying off our "public servants" to give them special favor?

 

[redpanda]

I just put in an order for probably too much vapor, but then again i look at vaping as something to get me off smoking, now i'm trying to move away from vaping

 

[NickSteel]

I just put in an order for probably too much vapor, but then again i look at vaping as something to get me off smoking, now i'm trying to move away from vaping

I think you'll have a better chance of quitting vaping than smoking. We plan to decrease nicotine levels over time to 0. Then, hopefully, only flavored vapor. I (and my doctor) believe the behavioral part of smoking is probably more addictive than the nicotine itself. I personally foresee my staying with e-cigs, even if I finally attain 0 nicotine. I do like vaping.

 

[Baditude]

as long as you got your mods i wouldnt worry. even then its easy to make a mod, plus theres always gonna be a way to make your own juices

The issue I see as the big determament will be how the government handles the issue of nicotine e-liquid. This is the one thing that every vapor needs, whether in pre-made juice or DIY. Battery power and juice delivery devices can be found as well as pg, vg, and flavorings for liquids. But nicotine is what keeps us addicted and the government, Big Pharmacy, and Big Tobacco realize this all too well.

You can stash away a year's supply of nicotine liquid, but then what will you do if it is regulated to only specific vendors who control the market or it is outlawed altogether?

 

[grandmato5]

Someone here wrote today that it will be the vendors that the FDA targets and they are correct. That only makes sense. Stop the source through which the customers purchase and you'll prevent the customers from obtaining their products. The FDA knows that the majority of vaping supplies are purchased on-line, that's no secret. Take away the on-line sales and you've stopped a huge portion of the pipeline to customers. I've seen written here on ECF that banks received letters in January warning them of severe penalties for processing purchases of ecigs after their deeming order was put into place. Does that sound like the FDA is planning reasonable regulations ?

Anyone that thinks that the FDA intends to only attempt to control nic liquid either is unaware or has forgotten that the last time the FDA attempted to take ecigs off the market it wasnt just nic liquid that was stopped coming through customers but anything ecig related. No reason to think they would choose to only attempt to control nic liquid this time around. I do think that the court will ultimately end up deciding that issue if they don't stick to regulating nic liquid only, but we'll have to wait and see on that one.

And YES if the regulations are harsh, there will be a black market and YES there were be products sold openly with names and uses given other then for ecig use AND thankfully three more years has given us time to create new products that make self sufficiency possible for many of us here vaping today If we have a large enough stash or can still obtain nic BUT that's of little help to those that have yet to give ecigs a try or for those that can't afford a stash. We here on ECF are a group of people that are very resourceful and knowledgeable but we aren't the mainstream of vaping as much as we like to think we are.

Believe it or not I'm not as negative about the situation as I come out sounding sometimes. There is still a lot of reason to hope things won't turn out as bad as they could in the end. We here on ECF may not be the mainstream of vaping but we ARE the voice of vaping and we need to make our voice heard ! It seems likely at the moment that we may not see the infamous proposed deeming order and proposed regulations in April but if we don't that doesn't mean we won't see it in our future. Sticking our heads in the sand saying nothings gonna change or the only thing thats gonna change is vendors will have to put ingredients list on labels and have inspections is grossly underestimating the FDA and all the anti's out there that firmly beleive that "quit or die" is the only way to handle nicotine usage.

 

[mrfixit]

I don't think they can do much about stuff you order from over seas cause the companies over there are pretty crafty about shipping things. We should still be able to get nic base from a place like wizard labs because they are certified lab ect.... This whole thing will come down to cost also if it cost them more to implement whatever they decide it will be nixed because of the spending issues the government already has. I know people say they enjoy vapping but face it you are still addicted to the nic so don't fool yourself there.

 

[Baditude]

I don't think they can do much about stuff you order from over seas cause the companies over there are pretty crafty about shipping things. We should still be able to get nic base from a place like wizard labs because they are certified lab ect....

Wizzard Labs has been out of nicotine for some time now.

 

[grandmato5]

I don't think they can do much about stuff you order from over seas cause the companies over there are pretty crafty about shipping things. We should still be able to get nic base from a place like wizard labs because they are certified lab ect.... This whole thing will come down to cost also if it cost them more to implement whatever they decide it will be nixed because of the spending issues the government already has. I know people say they enjoy vapping but face it you are still addicted to the nic so don't fool yourself there.

You obviously weren't around vaping back in 2009/2010 when customs stopped many shipments. And no, they did not stop every shipment, but they stopped many large and small orders. A lot of people lost money when their shipments didn't clear customs.

 

[Hulamoon]

Basically it boils down to this: Pharma wants to patent nicotine: BT wants to patent the e-cigarette with hugely expensive cartridges that hold God knows what in the liquid and last about 1/4 day if you're lucky. And gvt wins with huge taxe increases there in addition to huge taxes as they stick it to us for drinking soda.

 

[bivie]

I don't think they can do much about stuff you order from over seas cause the companies over there are pretty crafty about shipping things. We should still be able to get nic base from a place like wizard labs because they are certified lab ect.... This whole thing will come down to cost also if it cost them more to implement whatever they decide it will be nixed because of the spending issues the government already has. I know people say they enjoy vapping but face it you are still addicted to the nic so don't fool yourself there.

The gov can find the nic and the toys. Dogs can find anything. People shouldn't kid themselves thinking
China is gonna ship stuff here that is banned, and especially thinking they will get away with it. It won't
happen.

And you can't stop the gov. They just can't keep their corrupt little hands out of our lives. It wouldn't
matter what it was, they want to control you and it. They are too big, and we are no longer the free
country we once were - and brothers and sisters, you ain't seen nothin' yet. Get your selfs out there
and vote - write congressmen - sign petitions - whatever.

Does anyone have a form letter we can use to send to our representatives? I know CASSA has data form
sheets, but I didn't see a sample letter. Anyone?

 

[grandmato5]

Wizzard Labs has been out of nicotine for some time now.

Not wanting to mislead anyone thought I'd jump in to update your post Wizzard Labs was out of nicotine for a few weeks but they did get more recently. But because of the volume of orders they've been receiving they are limiting orders to what they can process so as an example a few minutes ago I could have ordered 36 mg or 48 mg strength but not 60 mg or 100 mg. What can be ordered is changing constantly so who knows which ones would be available later tonight or tomorrow or next week .

And to add to your comments, just because Wizzard Labs is a certified lab doesn't mean under FDA regulations we as individuals could easily order from them depending upon what regulations the FDA attempts to put into place. Seriously hope we can, but thats something we wait to find out.

 

[Cha0tik]

Someone here wrote today that it will be the vendors that the FDA targets and they are correct. That only makes sense. Stop the source through which the customers purchase and you'll prevent the customers from obtaining their products. The FDA knows that the majority of vaping supplies are purchased on-line, that's no secret. Take away the on-line sales and you've stopped a huge portion of the pipeline to customers. I've seen written here on ECF that banks received letters in January warning them of severe penalties for processing purchases of ecigs after their deeming order was put into place. Does that sound like the FDA is planning reasonable regulations ?

Anyone that thinks that the FDA intends to only attempt to control nic liquid either is unaware or has forgotten that the last time the FDA attempted to take ecigs off the market it wasnt just nic liquid that was stopped coming through customers but anything ecig related. No reason to think they would choose to only attempt to control nic liquid this time around. I do think that the court will ultimately end up deciding that issue if they don't stick to regulating nic liquid only, but we'll have to wait and see on that one.

And YES if the regulations are harsh, there will be a black market and YES there were be products sold openly with names and uses given other then for ecig use AND thankfully three more years has given us time to create new products that make self sufficiency possible for many of us here vaping today If we have a large enough stash or can still obtain nic BUT that's of little help to those that have yet to give ecigs a try or for those that can't afford a stash. We here on ECF are a group of people that are very resourceful and knowledgeable but we aren't the mainstream of vaping as much as we like to think we are.

Believe it or not I'm not as negative about the situation as I come out sounding sometimes. There is still a lot of reason to hope things won't turn out as bad as they could in the end. We here on ECF may not be the mainstream of vaping but we ARE the voice of vaping and we need to make our voice heard ! It seems likely at the moment that we may not see the infamous proposed deeming order and proposed regulations in April but if we don't that doesn't mean we won't see it in our future. Sticking our heads in the sand saying nothings gonna change or the only thing thats gonna change is vendors will have to put ingredients list on labels and have inspections is grossly underestimating the FDA and all the anti's out there that firmly beleive that "quit or die" is the only way to handle nicotine usage.

Not trying to be argumentative, but if we are not the mainstream of the ecig community, where are they at? I wanna go hang out with the cool kids lol

 

[Ryedan]

Not trying to be argumentative, but if we are not the mainstream of the ecig community, where are they at? I wanna go hang out with the cool kids lol

I don't think you do. Last time I checked active members of ECF number about 15,000, smokers in the US number about 50 million and vapers (at least someone's definition of vapers) number about 1/2 million. So in a nutshell there are 485,000 US vapers not on ECF.

We are the hobbyists. The fringe group. They are the masses. They are the ones who will be hurt by restrictions. We will mostly I think be OK if we did our homework.

If anyone has better numbers, please post them.

 

[wv2win]

as long as you got your mods i wouldnt worry. even then its easy to make a mod, plus theres always gonna be a way to make your own juices

Really?? If you are unable to get nicotine to put in your DIY eliquid because it is illegal to obtain unless in 2mg/4mg sealed cartridges then how will you make your own juices??? You might be wise to do some research into what happened in 2009, what is being proposed now as a first step to a complete ban and what those aligned against vaping are stating.

 

[wv2win]

Someone here wrote today that it will be the vendors that the FDA targets and they are correct. That only makes sense. Stop the source through which the customers purchase and you'll prevent the customers from obtaining their products. The FDA knows that the majority of vaping supplies are purchased on-line, that's no secret. Take away the on-line sales and you've stopped a huge portion of the pipeline to customers. I've seen written here on ECF that banks received letters in January warning them of severe penalties for processing purchases of ecigs after their deeming order was put into place. Does that sound like the FDA is planning reasonable regulations ?

Anyone that thinks that the FDA intends to only attempt to control nic liquid either is unaware or has forgotten that the last time the FDA attempted to take ecigs off the market it wasnt just nic liquid that was stopped coming through customers but anything ecig related. No reason to think they would choose to only attempt to control nic liquid this time around. I do think that the court will ultimately end up deciding that issue if they don't stick to regulating nic liquid only, but we'll have to wait and see on that one.

And YES if the regulations are harsh, there will be a black market and YES there were be products sold openly with names and uses given other then for ecig use AND thankfully three more years has given us time to create new products that make self sufficiency possible for many of us here vaping today If we have a large enough stash or can still obtain nic BUT that's of little help to those that have yet to give ecigs a try or for those that can't afford a stash. We here on ECF are a group of people that are very resourceful and knowledgeable but we aren't the mainstream of vaping as much as we like to think we are.

Believe it or not I'm not as negative about the situation as I come out sounding sometimes. There is still a lot of reason to hope things won't turn out as bad as they could in the end. We here on ECF may not be the mainstream of vaping but we ARE the voice of vaping and we need to make our voice heard ! It seems likely at the moment that we may not see the infamous proposed deeming order and proposed regulations in April but if we don't that doesn't mean we won't see it in our future. Sticking our heads in the sand saying nothings gonna change or the only thing thats gonna change is vendors will have to put ingredients list on labels and have inspections is grossly underestimating the FDA and all the anti's out there that firmly beleive that "quit or die" is the only way to handle nicotine usage.

grand, thanks for reminding us what happened from a banking standpoint.

To the few on this thread who think we have nothing to worry about, what would you do if all the banks and credit card companies refused to process any transactions dealing with vaping in any way?? Why do you think Paypal will not process any payments to vaping supply companies "based in the US"? Not because of the US government. They were threatened with a boycott and negative media campain by the president of ASH (in the US) and they immediately prohibited the processing of any payments to vaping suppliers (based in the US only). They didn't wait to be threatened by the US government. They caved in after being threatened by one of the extreme fringe anti-vaping groups. If one does the research to look at what has transpired since 2009 from the various groups working openly and hidden to have vaping banned, any "reasonable" person would understand the threat, join CASAA and do all they could to insure vaping is not severaly restricted or banned completely.