should we be stocking up just in case

[Racehorse]

racehorse, I think your right. I agree. I just wish a couple didn't have to both work full time jobs to survive in the middle class tax bracket. I feel like we are being pushed towards spending more time selling our lives and less time living our lives.

I think we like to say this, Plumes, but actually, "man" has struggled to survive for thousands of years. As a matter of fact, hunter/gatherers spent way more time and effort trying to survive than we do. Just procuring food and preparing it was a 7 day a week and all day pursuit. Pioneers who "built America" did too.

I am basically a homesteader type, but while I built my own cabin, I did not have to make the nails myself. Pioneers did.

To be honest, I think we have it pretty good, compared to early man and the pioneers.

I still have many friends who farm for a living, they pretty much work sunup to sundown. So do most people who work "backside" with race horses. 7 days a week for them, actually.. Anyone who has animals or livestock knows there are no days off.

I don't "know" what a middle class life style is anymore. I iimagine you have to work a certain amount of hours to pay for the eggs you buy in the grocery store, whereas my neighbors all keep chickens which I'm pretty sure is way more time-consuming and then they also have to gather the eggs.
In other words, its 6 of 1, half dozen of another, no pun intended. If you like to work to pay somebody to supply your electricity and eggs, then that is one option. There are other options, where you supply your own food by growing it, raising it, etc.

Neither is better or easier.......but I do urge people to choose that path which provides them the most freedom and happiness. Either way, survival is time consuming and hard.

 

[Racehorse]

And while you're at it, perhaps bring on the equivalent of the Good Housekeeping Seal of Approval for vaping supplies. I remember a day when all companies wanted that for their goods. Amazing, isn't it. And it didn't require the almighty government to do it.

Really?

Good Housekeeping was the staunchest advocate of the 1906 Pure Food and Drug Act.

The Pure Food and Drug Act of 1906 was a key piece of Progressive Era legislation.... Enforcement of the Pure Food and Drug Act was assigned to the Bureau of Chemistry in the U.S. Department of Agriculture which was renamed the U.S. Food and Drug Administration in 1930.

BTW, Good Housekeeping had actual laboratory testing going on. Know of any vendors who have submitted to lab testing?

 

[Aheadatime]

I think we like to say this, Plumes, but actually, "man" has struggled to survive for thousands of years. As a matter of fact, hunter/gatherers spent way more time and effort trying to survive than we do. Just procuring food and preparing it was a 7 day a week and all day pursuit. Pioneers who "built America" did too.

I'm not all that grateful or pleased with the modern status quo regarding financial dependence on the world around us and all of the emotional/physical/mental implications therein. I would argue that spending all day every day outdoors in the world we live on face to face with our community and family was/is a better lifestyle than the stressful, obligatory, fast-paced lifestyle that defines the common 'middle class' American.

I understand there were big tradeoffs like hygiene, disease, food and water luxury, etc, but I would still argue that working constantly doing something that you probably don't have a passion for in order to pay for the supplies which keep you at your job (that you're probably not passionate about) is much more depressing than a genuinely lived life with no obligations outside of basic survival (which couldn't have been all that horrible, as were here today).

Besides, time progressed in such a fashion that we don't really need to look back all the way to hunter-gatherer times in order to get an idea of what independence really means. Pre-1913, before the Federal Reserve was founded and our right to print and coin money was just given away without so much as a debate, money was backed by gold and the economy worked much differently. I'm starting to ramble, my apologies.

Props on homesteading too, its always been one of my goals to own property up north in my later years homesteading, making music, and just plain doing things that strike my fancy.

 

[irehc77]

Excuse if this question was already asked and/or answered. But the longest storage on Nic liquid from what I have seen is to freeze it in an amber bottle. But does it freeze solid? If so do you freeze it in smaller containers so you can only thaw out small amounts? Hope this is not a dumb question but considering purchasing some if I can find a site that still has it in stock?
Also where is the best place to buy the flavoring? I like the tobacco flavors. Gonna be trying Bobba's bounty today when the mailman comes!

 

[DancingHeretik]

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/myfreedomsmokes/43742-smoke-juice-storage-tips.html

 

[Pete54]

Excuse if this question was already asked and/or answered. But the longest storage on Nic liquid from what I have seen is to freeze it in an amber bottle. But does it freeze solid? If so do you freeze it in smaller containers so you can only thaw out small amounts? Hope this is not a dumb question but considering purchasing some if I can find a site that still has it in stock?
Also where is the best place to buy the flavoring? I like the tobacco flavors. Gonna be trying Bobba's bounty today when the mailman comes!

It will not freeze solid. I store mine in 100ml colored glass bottles with Euro Dropper caps so that less oxygen gets into the bottle when I extract the base. Oxygen is the main enemy of stored nic base, as well as light. Freezing simply slows down how fast the oxygen molecules disperse into the base. Nic base should last for years if stored in this manner. At least that's what I understand after reading several of Kurt's (our resident chemist's) posts.

 

[subversive]

I'll tell you 1 thing though. I give up on stockpiling mods and vivi novas and all that. I'm sick of it.
I'm sick of stockpiling for these damn regulations, or to save money. I'm not saving any money.
I've been using a damn Volt cig-alike for the past 2 days and I've been happier than I've ever been vaping.
I'm going to start living on the fringes. I don't care if I have a stockpile of rebuildables and mechanical mods.
I'm going to buy more cartos and a huge bottle of RY4 and live out my days as long as I can.
I'm getting tired of all this crap. You don't NEED this or that to be happy with vaping. It all makes it more complicated.
All you need is a good throat hit and some nice vapor. let the apocalypse come. I'll fight. I'll deal.

Till then, my $1000 in mods and tanks sit on my stand and a volt battery with a teeny little super shorty carto is in my pocket. It might have an 8 second cut off and a short battery life, but its more relaxing than holding a damn log in my hand worrying if its wicking well, wanting to switch from the taste of silica to the taste of carto to the taste of mesh back to the taste of silica. Its all getting too damn complicated and its a direct result of capitalism and a commodified consumer society and all the negatives that come with that system.

It's not the hardware that needs to be stocked up on as much as the liquid. Batteries/PG/VG/flavorings/chargers/many devices won't be affected. It's the nicotine containing liquid that is really going to be hit by this.

 

[Baditude]

Sorry but what evidence do you have that they'll ban e-cigs here?

"In theory, anything that wasn't on the market prior to 2007 could be banned until it was approved for sale by the FDA, unless it could prove that it is “substantially equivalent” to a “grandfathered” product that was being sold. Because electronic cigarette designs have changed and improved so dramatically since 2007 and many weren't even on the market in the U.S. prior to 2007, this regulation could deny consumers access to hundreds of existing products (leaving them access only to products on the market prior to February 2007) and put many electronic cigarette companies out of business..." - CASAA

http://casaa.org/deeming_regulations.html

Has anybody here considered that absolutely nothing will happen regarding any bans or fundamental regulations on nicotine products for electric cigarettes in the eu and us that apply to the use of nicotine liquids by the consumer. Is there any one particular person that is employed at the food and drugs administration that has said there is going to be a ban or regulation to this end ?. Or is the information coming from people that are not even connected to the food and drugs administration ?........

To answer your question, yes, there are well connected people, such as Bill Godshaw, who posts here on ECF, who has significant contacts within the FDA as well as groups like ASH, ALA, AHA, etc who know what leaders in those organizations think about vaping. And most of them just "hate" the idea of vaping and see it as another form of smoking and they want it eliminated. There is no middle ground for some of these people and some of these groups. There is no reasonal middle ground. It's basically "quit or die", period.

And IMO, they have a much greater chance of being successful over the long haul if we as vapers continue to do nothing but make posts on ECF about it. Take the necessary minimal steps to protect your ability to vape or don't be upset if it goes away or is severly limited.

There is absolutely NO EXCUSE for a e-cigarette forum with the membership size like ECF and not have every member be signed up as member of CASSA.

The strength of any representative organization is perceived in the numbers that that organization represents. ECF has thousands of members - how many of you are registered as a member of CASAA?

Membership is free and takes less than a minute. If you are not yet a member, please sign up. Time is of the essence.

 

[boipayn]

Since I am new, PLEASE forgive me - but I have not heard of any of this before - WHY would all of this be happening?

 

[wv2win]

There is absolutely NO EXCUSE for a e-cigarette forum with the membership size like ECF and not have every member be signed up as member of CASSA.

The strength of any representative organization is perceived in the numbers that that organization represents. ECF has thousands of members - how many of you are registered as a member of CASAA?

Membership is free and takes less than a minute. If you are not yet a member, please sign up. Time is of the essence.

I strongly second Baditude's advice. CASAA not only needs all ECF members to join CASAA for the reasons outlined by Bad, but they desperately need financial support. It is an all volunteer organization. I, like I am sure many of us, do not have much disposable income. But if each if us would be willing to give a dollar or five dollars or even ten dollars a month to CASAA, their ability to advocate nationwide for keeping vaping legal would be greatly enhanced. Even a small one time donation would help. Considering that most of us probably spend at least $25 - $30 a month to vape, a dollar donated to CASAA is a fairly small outlay.

FYI, CASAA has just engaged a laboratory to do extensive testing on eliquid as a means to counter the outright lies being perpetrated about eliquid vapor. This testing alone costs $15,000.

If you can't financially support CASAA, at least please join and keep up to date on the struggle to maintain our ability to vape.

 

[Fred Garvin]

Membership is free and takes less than a minute. If you are not yet a member, please sign up. Time is of the essence.

Done......

 

[wv2win]

Since I am new, PLEASE forgive me - but I have not heard of any of this before - WHY would all of this be happening?

Click on the banner below my posts and go to the CASAA web site to learn more. It would take pages to explain the history behind vaping and the extemely well funded organizations that want to ban vaping completely. Part of it is financial (Big Pharm is losing millions from people not using ineffective NRT products) and part of it is just plain irrational anti-smoking nuts who believe that "quit or die" is the only option that smokers should have. Its much more complicated that this but everyone of us need to join CASAA or else returning to smoking my be many of our fates.

 

[oxygen thief]

@baditude I've done everything CASAA has suggested, DEA, reps, signed petitions and sent money. This is the most active that I've been on any issue in my life.

Possibly just a calculated risk. If things go more our way once all this FDA stuff is done, heightened public awareness from the hearings might spur more smokers to try e-cigs. Then these vendors will already have a huge head start above their competition.

However, on the other side of the coin, if things go bad, they stand to lose everything. Seems pretty risky to me.

Vendors don't know any more than we know what the FDA will do. Even CASAA doesn't know, and they are on the front lines being our watch dog and consumer advocate for our rights. That is why the time is NOW to support CASAA. This is a pivotal point in time for e-cigarettes.

 

[Baditude]

Since I am new, PLEASE forgive me - but I have not heard of any of this before - WHY would all of this be happening?

Your question can be answered by reading this: The FDA & Deeming Regulations of E-cigarettes

The FDA is in charge of either regulating or banning drugs or devices in the consumer market in the United States. They will be holding hearings in April 2013 of its proposed plan of what to do with e-cigarettes.

There are multiple players that have an interest in this decision and all have their own agenda.

The pharmaceutical industry stands to lose millions of dollars if e-cigarettes are found to be effective in helping people to quit smoking. They see e-cigs as a competitor and their self interest is to have them eliminated.

The tobacco industry has an interest, also. They would like to see liquid nicotine be regulated in a way that it is only available to consumers in pre-filled cartridges in low nicotine amounts. They want bottled e-liquid with nicotine to be banned, effectively putting most if not all e-liquid manufacturers that we all currently use out of business. Should tobacco companies have their way, the only option of e-cigarettes will be some version of the currently available Blu e-cigs.

And then there are all the Anti-Smoking groups who view e-cigs the same as tobacco cigarettes. You can guess where they stand in this issue.

The FDA has proposed to ban all e-cig devices that were manufactured after 1997, which is essentially EVERYTHING currently in use, until they are approved for sale by the FDA (which could take years).

That's the Cliff Notes version. More details in the above link and on the CASAA website.
___

CASAA is our only consumer advocate against all of the above special interest groups. That is why they need to be supported in high numbers of memberships and donations if you can.

 

[RedhatPat]

Fyi, here is the link to join folks - Become a CASAA Member

 

[kelli]

i just found this thread and haven't read every post, but here is my opinion. if the gov't decides to ban vaping, it's not because they care about us. otherwise they would have banned cigarettes decades ago. i CAN see them taxing the holy crap out of it like they do analogs and i think that is probably what will happen. also, i see the big tobacco companies weaseling themselves into the vaping industry. nothing is done in this country by gov't or big business that is not greed driven. if there is money to be made, they will do what it takes to do it. ♥

 

[wv2win]

Your question can be answered by reading this: The FDA & Deeming Regulations of E-cigarettes

The FDA is in charge of either regulating or banning drugs or devices in the consumer market in the United States. They will be holding hearings in April 2013 of its proposed plan of what to do with e-cigarettes.

There are multiple players that have an interest in this decision and all have their own agenda.

The pharmaceutical industry stands to lose millions of dollars if e-cigarettes are found to be effective in helping people to quit smoking. They see e-cigs as a competitor and their self interest is to have them eliminated.

The tobacco industry has an interest, also. They would like to see liquid nicotine be regulated in a way that it is only available to consumers in pre-filled cartridges in low nicotine amounts. They want bottled e-liquid with nicotine to be banned, effectively putting most if not all e-liquid manufacturers that we all currently use out of business.

The FDA has proposed to ban all e-cig devices that were manufactured after 1997, which is essentially EVERYTHING currently in use.

That's the Cliff Notes version. More details in the above link and on the CASAA website.

Excellent summary, Bad. I neglected the issue surrounding Big Tobacco's interest in regulating eliquid to sealed, low nicotine cartridges only.

 

[Horselady154]

nothing is done in this country by gov't or big business that is not greed driven. if there is money to be made, they will do what it takes to do it. ♥

I disagree. Businesses, small and large, are started for the purpose of earning a profit. When did success become a sin in America?

The problem is with the collusion of some businesses and government, when government gives unfair advantage to those same businesses who are willing to line their bureaucratic pockets with payola.

 

[MorpheusPA]

Excuse if this question was already asked and/or answered. But the longest storage on Nic liquid from what I have seen is to freeze it in an amber bottle. But does it freeze solid? If so do you freeze it in smaller containers so you can only thaw out small amounts? Hope this is not a dumb question but considering purchasing some if I can find a site that still has it in stock?
Also where is the best place to buy the flavoring? I like the tobacco flavors. Gonna be trying Bobba's bounty today when the mailman comes!

Unless your freezer is under -35, VG won't freeze solid (-70 for PG). Even if it did, the solid is smaller than the liquid (unlike ice), so it wouldn't burst the bottle(s). My freezer is pretty standard, and PG is still a liquid at about 0.

I can't recommend a tobacco flavoring as I don't use them, but check out the DIY section for tons of help!

 

[MorpheusPA]

I disagree. Businesses, small and large, are started for the purpose of earning a profit. When did success become a sin in America?

It never did. When it becomes a problem is when the companies in question choose to maximize profits at the cost of their customers. We can argue that the tobacco industry did this for a long time; an ethical company would have, at minimum, released the data showing that their product was harmful. A truly ethical company would have dissolved itself and used its remaining resources to retrain and re-employ their workers in other industries, but like that would ever happen.

In other cases, a la the banking industry, the shift is monetary. As it stands, the risk is public (Too Big To Fail, and all) while the profits are private.

The mindless resistance to reasonable taxation that's been ginned up is another example, just more subtle. Do you really want to pay individually for every service? Do you actually think a for-profit company can do it cheaper? Really? Call me when Fed Ex can send a letter from PA to Alaska (or, for that matter, across town) for what the Post Office can.