I appreciate the spirit of what you're saying... No correction intended; just wanted to make others aware of how the system works. I agree it's problematic with these people in positions of power...
vape on, Aheadatime!
should we be stocking up just in case
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I appreciate the spirit of what you're saying... No correction intended; just wanted to make others aware of how the system works. I agree it's problematic with these people in positions of power...
vape on, Aheadatime!
LOL! I never said that. I'm not for or against some regulations but that's on a case by case basis depending on why. If it's in the public interest, then it might be good - verifying the content of nic juice as an example. Clearly the FDA isn't interested in acting in the public interest.
I remember at one time (decades ago) that "conflict of interest" was a reason someone couldn't be appointed to a post. They could not work in private industry or be connected to a private company that they would be regulating. Now it seems like "conflict of interest" has become a good thing. The FDA was one of the pioneer agencies that lead the change under the banner of "privatization" and claims that the "government couldn't do anything right" and that we should turn agencies over to private corporations. Government shouldn't be involved in competing with private industry, "free market" and all that jazz. Well, this is the result.
Putting banks in charge of economic policy or federal treasury was probably not a good idea just like heading up the FDA with someone connected to big pharma or allowing energy policy to be developed by oil barons. It wasn't always like that and the shock when "conflict of interest" became an asset.
You mentioned 'Obama's over reaching blah, blah, blah' and when it comes to stuff that matters, I don't see a policy change between Clinton, Bush, Obama or Reagan. None of them were "liberal". The two party system is a myth. We are given gays and guns and birth control so we don't notice what is going on - and it's more dramatic like a reality show or FOX. One thing corporations have developed is slick marketing, messaging and delivery systems. I'll take ad hoc, chaotic and awkward any day.
There used to be an organization of major corporations called ALEC that wrote many of the bills introduced into state legislatures. That's why we'd see 20 states with nearly the same bills. I don't know if e-cigs were on their agenda or not. The organization (last I heard) was disbanding because of it's unpopularity and had reformed under a different name. This is not a conspiracy theory, but it can sound like one. This is hindsight so you can google the information.
What they (corporations, corrupt agencies, etc) is afraid of is direct action. It's lateral organization vs. top-down and harder to contain or overcome. If you think it, do it. I put up a public post on Facebook encouraging non-smokers who were tired of the effects from smoking to join CASAA. Tell your story, what this means to you from your heart, don't be perfect and if it's real, people will get it. We need non-smokers in this. Write a letter to the editor, visit local and federal representatives. Someone had the idea of sending in ashtrays to American Lung Society with their story. Leave brochures behind where ever you go. Just do it / do something other than preach to a choir.
I intend to visit my doctor with backup information gleaned from CASAA's website. My fingers are crossed since this it's connected with a teaching hospital, someone may be curious to take more interest - and it helps that Chantix made a huge settlement last week.
A lot of people are making big decisions based on misinformation and for most of them, it's not with malicious intent. They believe what they were told. I intend to close that gap and my best weapon is telling my own experience.
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TO whoever is stocking up in case of an "FDA ban"
STOP IT
It's bad enough with chinese new year but I can't find anything in stock
and I blame the FDA scare, grrrrr
STOP IT
It's bad enough with chinese new year but I can't find anything in stock
and I blame the FDA scare, grrrrr
Full mech mods .......check
Batteries ......... they can't ban those.
RBAs .......check
Kanthal and ss mesh ..... can't ban those.
Flavorings ......... can't ban those because they are used for many other things.
Nic base ......... large order coming on Monday. Glass bottles to store product in freezer which should last for years.
PG/VG ....... can't ban those.
I'm good for about five years on nic base so by then I should be able to ween myself off nic. I'm down to 6mg now. They can't touch me!
Sounds like my check list Pete, all mechanical pv's for me and all RBA's to sit on them.
I am sure there are thousands of people that have browsed this thread that aren't worried about any possible changes in the law regarding electric cigarettes. I expect they find the subject controversial even though they haven't commented themselves. The fact that they haven't commented means they don't really care one way or the other right?.
Most of the comments here do seem to expect the worst, all i am trying to do is stay positive and not confuse the issue. I am not disillusioned, just not really as concerned as some others.
Personally if the worst happens then i'll quit vaping. It really doesn't matter as much to me as it seems to matter to some others.
So i'm cool and relaxed and not really panicking about it at all.
Most of the comments here do seem to expect the worst, all i am trying to do is stay positive and not confuse the issue. I am not disillusioned, just not really as concerned as some others.
Personally if the worst happens then i'll quit vaping. It really doesn't matter as much to me as it seems to matter to some others.
So i'm cool and relaxed and not really panicking about it at all.
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You know…. A lot has been brought up about the possible motivations and influence of BP. I cant help but wonder why THEY don’t get into the ejuice business.
Imagine if you could buy juice manufactured by Glaxo or Pfizer or whomever, made entirely with verifiable, traceable, USP ingredients in Labs adhering to FDA regulated best practices. That certainly would ease my fears about labeling etc. That traceability is one reason why I am a big Wizards Lab fan who puts the Lot # etc on every label. I would be willing to pay a reasonable premium for pharmaceutical grade juice. It would also give BP the revenue stream from the potential NRT customers that vaping is displacing.
I am sure they must have thought about this already though. Clearly there is a market, I wonder why they haven’t jumped in. Could be they afraid of alienating the FDA, afraid of the political ramifications, or maybe they know something we don’t.
Imagine if you could buy juice manufactured by Glaxo or Pfizer or whomever, made entirely with verifiable, traceable, USP ingredients in Labs adhering to FDA regulated best practices. That certainly would ease my fears about labeling etc. That traceability is one reason why I am a big Wizards Lab fan who puts the Lot # etc on every label. I would be willing to pay a reasonable premium for pharmaceutical grade juice. It would also give BP the revenue stream from the potential NRT customers that vaping is displacing.
I am sure they must have thought about this already though. Clearly there is a market, I wonder why they haven’t jumped in. Could be they afraid of alienating the FDA, afraid of the political ramifications, or maybe they know something we don’t.
..................................Hey man !..
I've been wondering something along these lines too !
Do you really want to trust BT with eliquid? They will be more in the line of Their product (pre-filled cartridges that only fit their device) not to mention behind closed doors discussions on how to hook more people and what can we put in the liquid to make it more flavorful or more vapor. Who cares if it may be bad for you down the road. Thanks but no thanks.
If you don't believe that the FDA will do something drastic, I for one don't want to take that chance. I will fight for my right. I joined CASAA a few months ago and have written many times to help halt the ANTZ in their quest. This isn't really about labels, it's about a persons right to chose what they think is best for themselves.
If you want labels, then buy from vendors that give you them. There are a couple out there that do it and I think we will see more. BUT THAT WILL ONLY HAPPEN if we are able to continue to vape. If the ANTZ get their way, no way in hell will vendors be around to evolve to that point.
Fine, you can stop vaping. Glad you're thinking about yourself and not anyone else. I will continue to fight for your right even if you choose not to.
ETA BP knows there's a lot more money in treating the illnesses that come from smoking than not smoking. Think about it. How many millions are spent each year on smoking related illnesses. Food for thought.
If you don't believe that the FDA will do something drastic, I for one don't want to take that chance. I will fight for my right. I joined CASAA a few months ago and have written many times to help halt the ANTZ in their quest. This isn't really about labels, it's about a persons right to chose what they think is best for themselves.
If you want labels, then buy from vendors that give you them. There are a couple out there that do it and I think we will see more. BUT THAT WILL ONLY HAPPEN if we are able to continue to vape. If the ANTZ get their way, no way in hell will vendors be around to evolve to that point.
Fine, you can stop vaping. Glad you're thinking about yourself and not anyone else. I will continue to fight for your right even if you choose not to.
ETA BP knows there's a lot more money in treating the illnesses that come from smoking than not smoking. Think about it. How many millions are spent each year on smoking related illnesses. Food for thought.
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Anyone can make DIY ejuice for their own consumption for five cents per ml. (I do !)
There is no profit in ejuice for BP...well not enough anyways.
I cannot make my own nic patches or gum....
But you can grow your own tobacco...but I can tell ya, it is not easy !
There is no profit in ejuice for BP...well not enough anyways.
I cannot make my own nic patches or gum....
But you can grow your own tobacco...but I can tell ya, it is not easy !
My guess is that they have already made financial investments in their current products and have made the decision to protect those products by eliminating the potential competition (e-cigarettes). Not that they couldn't afford to create a new division for e-cig products, they choose not to. Why create and sell a new product that totally eliminates your current products that you have invested hundreds of thousands of dollars in?
If you think these companies are researching for cures, you are wrong. Big Pharmacy is in the business to make profits, not for the altrusic idea of curing disease and prolonging life. Working in medicine for 30 plus years has taught me it's all about the money.
Considering the history of psychotropic drugs that Big Pharmacy has created to help "stop" smoking, ie Chantrix, they are the last people that I want making my e-liquids.
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I'm wondering why some don't do the actual research to have an understanding of what BP has done to date regarding vaping. Where does ASH, ALA, AHA, etc get 90+% of their funding? They all have repeatidly called for a ban on vaping. The first Senator (Lautenberg), who publicly called for a ban on all vaping supplies, is from what state and receives his largest campaign contributions from what industry? (BP - many headquartered in NJ). BP already has a multi-million dollar NRT business threatened by vaping.
There are very well established experts in the field of Harm Reduction, who have working relationships with key people in BP, ALA, AHA and the FDA. They have stated that BP's intention is to kill the vaping industry if at all possible as they see it as a significant threat to their NRT business. There are actually some mid-level employees of the FDA who think that vaping should be considered as a new means to get people to stop smoking, according to several of these experts. But those who run the FDA have made it clear that this thinking is not to be supported. And if you do any research, you will see that many of the past executives of the FDA leave the public field and go directly to the BP industry. The current head of the FDA is from the BP industry. Some are also heavily invested (financially) in the BP industry.
Instead of just speculating on why this or why that, I would suggest that we all do research into this issue and understand what has happened prior to today. I have not seen any comments that refute the "facts" of what has occured over the last four years regarding those groups aligned publicly and behind the scenes against vaping.
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that's more than just a lil concerning!
I am sure there are thousands of people that have browsed this thread that aren't worried about any possible changes in the law regarding electric cigarettes. I expect they find the subject controversial even though they haven't commented themselves. The fact that they haven't commented means they don't really care one way or the other right?.
Most of the comments here do seem to expect the worst, all i am trying to do is stay positive and not confuse the issue. I am not disillusioned, just not really as concerned as some others.
Personally if the worst happens then i'll quit vaping. It really doesn't matter as much to me as it seems to matter to some others.
So i'm cool and relaxed and not really panicking about it at all.
So you are saying three things based on these comments: the reason your position has so little support within this thread is because those in agreement with you are not taking the time to comment. Secondly, vaping isn't all that important to you since you could easily just stop vaping. And third, you could care less about those who desperately need vaping to stay off cigarettes and also to heck with all of those who have yet to discover vaping as a means to finally stop smoking, that's their tough luck. At least that's how I interpret your comments. Please correct me if I am wrong but that is how it reads to me.
Imagine your cost for this super ultra safe niquid is $45 for 10ml.
I buy my stuff from the Wiz too. (100% DIY)
They test their Nic and I trust them.
I'm not afraid for myself. I have plenty in the freezer I bought in November. I'm afraid for the new vaper's future if they put huge taxes on each ml's of ejuice. OR say the only flavors available will be mint and tobacco at 3mgs maximum. Or tax it so high its more cost effective to reach for the smokes.
We know darn well some ppl need high mgs to quit at the start.
Its as if they want us dead early.
P.S. Signed up for Casaa today
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He got a bill passed through the NJ legislature that treats vaping like smoking in public before anyone knew what ecigs were (over 3 years ago now). It's not like vaping in public was a problem, it was preemptive. He also pushed banning vaping on airplanes. He is so in the pocket of BP.
NY almost did the same thing a few years ago trying to ban selling of ecig stuff, but I think that one was more cigarette tax related.
In addition to what the threat of bans does to vapers, it must be extremely hard on vendors. How do you grow and invest in your company when your entire business could be shut down anytime?
The bigger vaping gets the more difficult it will be to shut down, so I get some comfort from seeing the ads on TV. Buy a bottle of fairly high concentrated nicotine and stick it in your freezer for insurance. If nothing happens, you can toss it or use it. If it gets outlawed, you can scramble to learn DIY juice mixing. The rest of the hardware stuff you could still buy and/or put together yourself.
Don't buy a ton of stuff to stockpile that you will probably outgrow or will be replaced by better technology in a few months. I fell for this 2 years ago with an FDA scare and ended up with over 200 prefilled KR808-D1 cartomizers that I quit using a month later and PIFed.
BP is much more dangerous than BT. I feel at least with BT they will allow a cottage industry to exist along side the mass marketed stuff.
Taxes are probably inevitable, but the more studies that come out showing vaping is safer the harder it will be to justify the sin tax.
Oh, I'm sure they have thought this through. Maybe included a few hundred focus groups during the last 3 years. Why? PATENTS. That's big money in patents and it takes 1.5% change to approve a new patent for a medication - if e-juice or e-cigs were treated more like a pharmaceutical (and that was the reason for putting cigarettes under the eye of the FDA to begin with).
This is very similar to war on nutritional supplements. The FDA wants to regulate those too - and turn them over to BP. There was a scandal awhile back over some released emails that involved a conversation with FDA and drug company execs about how to get a nutritional supplement off the market because they wanted to use it in a patent for a new drug. BP has spent decades trying to capture active ingredients in another illegal herb - and if WTA / Aromaejuice has figured a way to do it, I'm sure they want it. But the vapping market is wide open to a whole lot of brand new PATENTS.
You have to remember smoking is an addiction. Most of the people viewing these messages are still addicted to nicotine and so it's reasonable they would be passionate about it, worried and scared. I'm trying to figure out where I stand which is why I entered the thread. I think the vast majority of people don't have a need to voice their opinion and many may assume whatever happens isn't something they can change - or they don't know what to do. If they weren't interested, they'd ignore this topic completely.
A comment I heard once was that "American's are too polite". Maybe so. Activism isn't exactly the most popular past-time around.
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