Sigelei Zmax V3 and V5 Telescopic: User's Group

[yzer]

For battery sizes longer than 18350 I use the rule of adjusting tube length to 1/8" of battery extending beyond the length of the tube before replacing the battery cap. This keeps the battery spring roughly 1/2 compressed which is ideal. The difference in length between flat top and button top batteries is negligible.

Using Efest red flat top batteries the V3 and V5 are 127mm long with 18650 and 132mm long with 2x18350. The difference is 5mm or a little less than 1/4".

On my calipers two stacked Efest red 18350 V1s (flat top) measure 70mm long.

A red Efest 18650 V1 is, well, 65mm long.

 

[Marty163]

yzer and JeremyR. You both are great help. It's much appreciated.

My Z5 hasn't even arrived yet and you are already educating me in the ways of Sigiele.

If stacked 18350's do last the longest then that may persuade me towards that configuration. Sometimes I go straight from work and have a drink. There's nothing worse than my battery (currently EVOD VV 1000mah) dying on me. When I've had a drink the poor thing never leaves my hand.

 

[yzer]

The big advantages of these Sigeleis are their durability and versatility. You can tailor these things to suit your needs and they will work for you for a long time.

 

[fairmana]

Fairmana asked:
"P.S. I'm curious about the problems you were experiencing that motivated you to take apart the older ZMAX. Shifted board? Bad switch?"

The biggest reason was the 510 connection. The board shift, glue flakes under the screen and the fire switch were the other reasons.
Quite a while back and after a hard fall, I had to reassemble the V2. I'd just moved and didn't have all my tools and stuff accessible, so I made do with what I had. The 510 connection wire was broken off right at the 510 pin so I cobbled something together to get it working. My temporary fix is not failing and I need to come up with a more permanent cure. I need to find or make some type of 510 pin that I can solder the wire to. The insulator in the bottom of the 510 is also failing and I need to come up with some type of replacement for it as well. Any suggestions from the group would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!

Dsconnell, is your original 510 pin missing or broken? I'm hoping you still have it. I'm wondering if the reason you're considering possibly not re-using the original pin is because the wire broke off flush with the end of the pin. Understandably, this can make it tough to remove the remaining wire from the pin and re-solder a new wire into it. However if that's the case, you should be able to heat the pin with a hot enough soldering iron (or open flame) to melt the solder and remove the remaining wire fragment. This will let you re-use the pin and solder a new wire into it. I would try to hold the pin in a pair of needle-nosed pliers and get it real hot so the solder is melted. Then quickly smack the edge of the pliers (not the pin they are holding) down onto the edge of a work bench (for example) and see if you can get the small wire and the solder to fly out of the pin (repeat if necessary). When you do this, make sure the pin opening is facing down toward the bench so that the sudden stop of the pliers smacking the work bench will encourage the solder and wire fragment to fly out.

Be careful because any molten solder that flies out of the pin can splash up and burn your skin or get in your eyes (wear protection). The molten solder can also damage the surface it falls onto, so obviously don't do this on your living room dinner table or your "significant other" will likely make you suffer horribly (*cringe*). I've had to do this several times in the past to remove stubborn solder from tough spots, and it works quite well. The trick is to get it good and hot.

Failing the above method, you can always drill out the solder and wire fragment with the proper size drill bit. It only needs to be deep enough so that you can insert a small portion of a new wire which should be strong enough to hold once it's been soldered. Remember: It doesn't have to be pretty on the backside of the pin, you only need something to solder to and ensure that when you're done the new wire (and new solder joint) will pass through the hole in the insulator until the head of the pin is sitting flush on top of the insulator with the wire coming out of the bottom. I didn't mention this earlier, but I don't recommend you attempt to solder a new wire onto the pin while the pin is still inside the insulator. The heat from the soldering iron will melt and damage the insulator.

You also mentioned that your pin insulator was failing. Can you pass along a little more information? A picture would also be great if you can post one. There were a few different styles of insulator used in these sigelei PV's as they made improvements, so if we can see what you're dealing with we might be able to help or provide some suggestions.

Cheers!

 

[dsconnell]

Dsconnell, is your original 510 pin missing or broken? I'm hoping you still have it. I'm wondering if the reason you're considering possibly not re-using the original pin is because the wire broke off flush with the end of the pin. Understandably, this can make it tough to remove the remaining wire from the pin and re-solder a new wire into it. However if that's the case, you should be able to heat the pin with a hot enough soldering iron (or open flame) to melt the solder and remove the remaining wire fragment. This will let you re-use the pin and solder a new wire into it. I would try to hold the pin in a pair of needle-nosed pliers and get it real hot so the solder is melted. Then quickly smack the edge of the pliers (not the pin they are holding) down onto the edge of a work bench (for example) and see if you can get the small wire and the solder to fly out of the pin (repeat if necessary). When you do this, make sure the pin opening is facing down toward the bench so that the sudden stop of the pliers smacking the work bench will encourage the solder and wire fragment to fly out.

Be careful because any molten solder that flies out of the pin can splash up and burn your skin or get in your eyes (wear protection). The molten solder can also damage the surface it falls onto, so obviously don't do this on your living room dinner table or your "significant other" will likely make you suffer horribly (*cringe*). I've had to do this several times in the past to remove stubborn solder from tough spots, and it works quite well. The trick is to get it good and hot.

Failing the above method, you can always drill out the solder and wire fragment with the proper size drill bit. It only needs to be deep enough so that you can insert a small portion of a new wire which should be strong enough to hold once it's been soldered. Remember: It doesn't have to be pretty on the backside of the pin, you only need something to solder to and ensure that when you're done the new wire (and new solder joint) will pass through the hole in the insulator until the head of the pin is sitting flush on top of the insulator with the wire coming out of the bottom. I didn't mention this earlier, but I don't recommend you attempt to solder a new wire onto the pin while the pin is still inside the insulator. The heat from the soldering iron will melt and damage the insulator.

You also mentioned that your pin insulator was failing. Can you pass along a little more information? A picture would also be great if you can post one. There were a few different styles of insulator used in these Sigelei PV's as they made improvements, so if we can see what you're dealing with we might be able to help or provide some suggestions.

Cheers!

Yes, the wire broke right where the pin and wire are soldered together. I had a small soldering iron, but because I'd just moved, I didn't have my larger, more powerful soldering iron. With the small iron, I couldn't produce enough heat to melt the solder and remove the broken wire end. It's quite a small piece and holding it with my smallest needle nose pliers wasn't working. All the heat from the iron would get sucked into the pliers instead of the pin. What's stupid, and I didn't even think of at the time was, I had my torch for fixing coils after they're formed and that would've taken care of the problem right away, but like I say, I didn't think of that. Last night while searching around, I found an old adapter that has a 510 center pin that will work perfectly. My other main problem is the insulator that the 510 center pin sits in inside the top cap. It broke into two pieces and I couldn't find a good way to secure that insulator, solder the wire and make it work. The 510 pin had to be soldered in place because of the broken insulator and there was not enough room to do it all inside the bottom of the top cap. The insulator keeps the flat part of the pin from touching the cap and shorting out. It also keeps the pin centered in the hole and is shaped like a sleeve to prevent the sides of the 510 pin from grounding out as the pin goes through the hole. After having just moved, I couldn't find enough necessary stuff to make it work properly, so I used a brass nail and electrical tape...it's all I had. The insulators for the Protank 510 pins are the perfect size to fit the 510 center pin I found, and come to think of it, a Protank 510 center pin would be my next choice for the 510 center pin on my Sigelei had I not found this other pin. The original 510 center pin insulator is hard plastic or delrin and although I don't have one, I'll try the 510 center pin insulator from a Protank. It's more of a hard rubber but it holds, insulates and positions the pin itself at the right height. My original temporary fix wasn't the best because it wouldn't allow atomizers to be screwed down flush and the Protank insulator and 510 pin I'm going to use will allow my atomizers to screw all the way down. Plus, this setup won't allow the pin to twist when screwing on an atomizer, and it should seal the hole fairly well.
I've got my digi-key yellow fire button sitting here, prepped and ready to install. I've got the display mounted back to where it should be, so after the button install and the 510 pin install, I should be ready to go. I'd be curious if anyone has a Sigelei Mini extension tube from the second coop that they'd part with. I sure could use one of those. I'll post this question on that board too but thought I'd ask here as well. Hopefully, by the end of the day I'll have this unit back up and working.

 

[fairmana]

Over the last week or 10 days, I've started to have problems with the fire button on my first V5. I've had this V5 for slightly less than 2 months now and I've been using it exclusively since I got it. It has begun to go into the menu instead of firing unless I press the button harder than usual and it seems to be getting worse every day. Unfortunately it seems to be time to break into the tube and replace the switch. My circuit board hasn't shifted yet, but I'll also insert a spacer just to keep any shifting from happening in the future. I've gone back to using one of my "immortality modded" V3's until I get around to doing the mod on the V5. I'll be sure to post pics of the internals, especially if I see anything noteworthy when compared to the V3's internals.

The fact that some people don't have a problem with their buttons makes me wonder whether or not the early button problem is my fault or not. I've yet to own a ZMAX where the button didn't fail at around the 2 month point (friends and family included). Maybe we've been pushing the button harder than necessary? When I first bought this V5, I tried to be more conscious of how much force I was using on the button, but more often than not I forgot to think about it. Either way, my first impression is that the button failure happened too soon after purchasing the device to attribute solely to that, and yet the simple answer might just be that these buttons can't withstand using extra force to actuate them for very long. It's still quite possible that the issue has nothing to do with the above and it's just a basic switch quality issue. Who knows? Anyone's guess is as good as mine. Without a handful of these switches from Sigelei and a machine that tests the durability of these switches by pressing them over and over again at different forces, we will probably never know for sure. Even without much evidence for support, I'm still willing to say that I think it would help (to some unknown degree) to use the minimum amount of force on the button to maximize its lifespan. If this ends up being the main contributing factor for early button problems, it still annoys me that we would need to treat these factory switches so gently.

 

[PaulBHC]

I doubt that it is pressure related. I am older and have small hands for a male so I doubt that I am pressing too hard before the problem starts. Mine is about two months old as well. I wonder if flakes from the button are inside?

 

[AndriaD]

It is 300% more run time, especially with coils below 2 ohms.
.
.
.
If I run efest 2000 18650 I would use 3 batteries in a day. When the single battery voltage gets below 3.5 you have noticeable drop in power output. With stacked batteries I go an entire day on one set of stacked batteries. You don't notice any drop in power until ~ 6.5v battery power.

This just about perfectly matches my own experience -- with an 18650 battery, it lasts all day -- with 2 stacked '350s, it can go three days before it shows "LOW VOL". But it's not the only device I use, which explains why it lasts so much longer for me.

Andria

 

[AndriaD]

The fact that some people don't have a problem with their buttons makes me wonder whether or not the early button problem is my fault or not. I've yet to own a ZMAX where the button didn't fail at around the 2 month point (friends and family included).

I doubt that it is pressure related. I am older and have small hands for a male so I doubt that I am pressing too hard before the problem starts. Mine is about two months old as well. I wonder if flakes from the button are inside?

I just looked up to see when I got my v3 -- April 15. Now granted, I had a couple weeks off, when I really wasn't vaping much at all, but it would still be about 3 months of regular use -- but I've had zero button problems. I'm a woman, with fairly strong hands for a woman (all this typing for all these years!) but I know that men's hands are FARRRRRRRRRRRRRR stronger than any woman's on the planet. So you may be on to something; men are just *naturally* so much stronger than women, they don't realize they're exerting too much force -- like if a man grab's a woman's arm, he can leave a bruise in a heartbeat without even trying -- and if he actually did try, he could break a woman's arm with one hand, very easily (the smaller ulna, usually). Men just don't seem to have "gentle" in their natural skill-set.

Andria

 

[fairmana]

My other main problem is the insulator that the 510 center pin sits in inside the top cap. It broke into two pieces and I couldn't find a good way to secure that insulator, solder the wire and make it work. .

Was there any way to remove both halves of the broken insulator from the top cap without damaging it further? If you could do that, you could glue it back together and then put the insulator back in with your new pin. I'm not sure if your insulator is the same, but check out this post. Your insulator could be threaded like the one shown there which means you could remove it by un-threading it out of the bottom of the top cap. I was able to use a sharp dental tool to turn and un-thread the one shown in the link. It might be more challenging since it broke into two pieces, but it still might be doable. If your insulator is a different style and fitted a different way, you still might be able to push both broken halves out somehow so they can be cleaned with alcohol and super glued back together. Saving that insulator would save you the major trouble of having to find a replacement or fabricate something from scratch.

Anyway, best of luck on your fix and be sure to post back and let us know how it went. I'm sure that several of us will be interested.

 

[JeremyR]

The fact that some people don't have a problem with their buttons makes me wonder whether or not the early button problem is my fault or not. I've yet to own a ZMAX where the button didn't fail at around the 2 month point

Another weird thing, far back in this thread after mine was less than a month I had problems and continued to for quite sometime even after retaining the board. I never replaced my switch. And for the last 3 months or so it rarely if ever misfires. I only applied noalox one time and added more one time never cleaned it off .

The only thing I notice right now is that it seems to only occasionally/rarely misfire when the stacked battery voltage gets close to cut off. Thinking about it things started getting better for me when I started stacking batteries.

I think there is something to do with stacking batteries that allows better operation of the switch. Sounds crazy but it's the only thing that really changed. More power better electrical transmission in the device? Less voltage drop across the stainless parts?

Yzer doesn't have problems but also uses low power. This would lend to a voltage drop idea. Using higher power causes voltage drop on the ground (B-)

Oh one other thing is I did use a spare oring from a tobecco oddy clone to use at the tube gap. Maybe this support there has accounted for the better conductivity by holding the tube stable.

I'm not sure if it has anything to do with those or if the switch just broke in to a great contact spot.

I was one of the bigger switch complainers and now it's still original switch has been flawless for me at about 10+ months old.

 

[fairmana]

I doubt that it is pressure related. I am older and have small hands for a male so I doubt that I am pressing too hard before the problem starts. Mine is about two months old as well. I wonder if flakes from the button are inside?

When I replaced the switch on my first V3, I disassembled the bad switch and took some pics. I didn't see any dust or other gunk inside the switch. There was definitely some pitting on the mating surface though. Not sure if it was corrosion or arcing that caused it. Here is that original post...

 

[MotherNatural]

My two failed at 3 months and 4 months. I have a very light touch on the button (sold the MVP because the button was too hard to push) and vaped them never higher than 8w. I don't think there is a rhyme or reason to it. I think yzer should invest in lottery tickets.

 

[yzer]

I have smaller than usual male hands but I can also say that they are stronger than usual, as well. I do a lot of mechanical and wood work on my boat. I can also claim to have maybe an above average "sympathy" for using electronic controls of all kinds having worked a long career in broadcasting. By this I mean I have a natural sense about how much force is required to operate buttons, switches, knobs, sliders, touch screens and other controls without causing premature wear. I do have a soft touch using the Sigelei button/switch.

I have been using the V5 exclusively for four months. I had maybe a dozen misfires during that period. These misfires are failure to maintain firing or skipping from the fire function to a menu item. All of these misfires occurred when the battery was at low power levels like 3.3 or 3.4V on the battery. I have never used Noalox on this V5.

Before I started using the V5 in April I was using a second generation V3 maybe 80% of the time. I used Noalox on this V3 from the beginning. This period was from December 2013 to April 2014: five months. During this time I had very few misfires and really can't remember misfires to be a problem at all with this unit. The other 20% of the time I was using a first generation V3.

I started using the first generation V3 in April of 2013. I used this V3 100% of the time for over seven months: until December 2013. Then I used it 20% of the time for the next five months. I always had misfires at infrequent intervals with this unit. The incidence of misfires was greatly reduced after I applied Noalox to the tube threads sometime during that summer. I still test this V3 from time to time. I may get one or two misfires a week from it or no misfires at all.

When looking at all three of these devices today I can see a couple of interesting things. They all still work well and they all look almost as good as new. All are the standard brushed steel finish. The switch on the second generation V3 is as clicky-sounding as new while the switches on the first generation V3 and the V5 are now silent but still provide a soft tactile response.

Currently, I am using the V5 virtually all of the time. I use the two V3s once in a while to to keep them active.

I have ten of the Omron replacement switches ready if I should need them.

 

[yzer]

My two failed at 3 months and 4 months. I have a very light touch on the button (sold the MVP because the button was too hard to push) and vaped them never higher than 8w. I don't think there is a rhyme or reason to it. I think yzer should invest in lottery tickets.

I do have good luck about some things. I use a restored 60 year-old wooden Chris-Craft cruiser and a drive an 11 year-old WRX. I also have three 20 year-old Koi in the backyard pond.

 

[tchavei]

Hi all

I still haven't managed to open my mini zMax. Somehow I think I'm postponing it because I have no real backup if things go south (can't count the itaste vv v3 as a replacement) however, after reading that stuff about stacked battery setups, I went for my extension that was included when I bought my mini and I tried the setup today... well guess what... no more "double" clicks?!? Not sure why but somehow I think that the pressure from the bottom spring is higher in a stacked setup locking somehow the electronic board in place?

I think there is something to do with stacking batteries that allows better operation of the switch. Sounds crazy but it's the only thing that really changed. More power better electrical transmission in the device? Less voltage drop across the stainless parts?

What about the increased pressure I mentioned above? that could also "somehow" lock the electronic board in place avoiding movement when operating the switch?

I have my mini Zmax for a month now (95% daily use) and I have yet to have a single missfire... well I had one the other day but I was checking ohms first so I clicked it shortly several times and when I pressed another time to vape, it was one click too much and I landed in the menu (operator error).

I love my zMax mini btw... without the extension... with a stacked setup, I think it has to be registered as a lethal weapon. I can't believe one can carry something like that in broad daylight

Regards
Tony

 

[Juvecoop]

Just bought this regulated mod because I bought the new bvc coils for my Nautilus and felt that I wasn't getting the full potential of the coil on my MVP2. I'm using 1.8 ohm coil. My question is and sorry if I sound like an idiot but why on a full charge 18650 or 18350 when set at 15 watts the actual watts showing when I hit the fire button is around 11 watts? and drops quickly down after that, regardless if in rms or mean mode. I'm using the sigelei batteries that came with the starter kit

Correct me if I'm wrong but from my understanding from what I've been reading on here is that the 4.2 volt battery 18650 or 18350 is not enough to hit the full 15 watts so the mod will not allow it is this correct?

any recommendation on how I call hit the 15 watts as it seems like a waste if it can not.

 

[yzer]

Hi all

I still haven't managed to open my mini zMax. Somehow I think I'm postponing it because I have no real backup if things go south (can't count the itaste vv v3 as a replacement) however, after reading that stuff about stacked battery setups, I went for my extension that was included when I bought my mini and I tried the setup today... well guess what... no more "double" clicks?!? Not sure why but somehow I think that the pressure from the bottom spring is higher in a stacked setup locking somehow the electronic board in place?



What about the increased pressure I mentioned above? that could also "somehow" lock the electronic board in place avoiding movement when operating the switch?

I have my mini Zmax for a month now (95% daily use) and I have yet to have a single missfire... well I had one the other day but I was checking ohms first so I clicked it shortly several times and when I pressed another time to vape, it was one click too much and I landed in the menu (operator error).

I love my zMax mini btw... without the extension... with a stacked setup, I think it has to be registered as a lethal weapon. I can't believe one can carry something like that in broad daylight

Regards
Tony

Yes, a weak battery spring could certainly affect performance. These springs usually compress after a month or so of use. A new spring is about 17mm tall. It's not unusual to see them compress down a couple of mm. If this is an issue causing poor battery contact then you can stretch the spring a little.

This spring shrinkage is not so much an issue with telescopic V3 or V5 as it is with Mini and V2. If the spring has compressed you can just tighten the telescopic tube a little more to compensate.

These areas are worth checking:

-clean + and - contacts on the battery with a clean cloth
-clean the battery + contact inside of the tube, the battery spring, the inside of the battery cap and the tube and cap threads with a soft cloth dampened in alcohol. This should be regular maintenance done every few weeks, every month, whatever it takes
-apply a thin film of Noalox on tube threads to improve conductivity

 

[yzer]

Just bought this regulated mod because I bought the new bvc coils for my Nautilus and felt that I wasn't getting the full potential of the coil on my MVP2. I'm using 1.8 ohm coil. My question is and sorry if I sound like an idiot but why on a full charge 18650 or 18350 when set at 15 watts the actual watts showing when I hit the fire button is around 11 watts? and drops quickly down after that, regardless if in rms or mean mode. I'm using the sigelei batteries that came with the starter kit

Correct me if I'm wrong but from my understanding from what I've been reading on here is that the 4.2 volt battery 18650 or 18350 is not enough to hit the full 15 watts so the mod will not allow it is this correct?

any recommendation on how I call hit the 15 watts as it seems like a waste if it can not.

I believe you have the Sigelei Zmax V2 from reading your other thread. Yes, you can hit the full 15W with a good high drain 18650 or with 2x18350. 2x18350 is preferred by most users who run Sigelei Zmaxs at high power.

 

[Juvecoop]

I believe you have the Sigelei Zmax V2 from reading your other thread. Yes, you can hit the full 15W with a good high drain 18650 or with 2x18350. 2x18350 is preferred by most users who run Sigelei Zmaxs at high power.

And specific brand that you could recommend? Also how long would 2 18350 last if I'm a moderate vaper