Sigelei Zmax V3 and V5 Telescopic: User's Group

[Marty163]

I'm loving all this.

Nothing beats chewing it out mixed with some real world tests. I think there are far to many people who like to speak with authority on a matter and basically don't have a clue. The internet Is riddled with them.

A quick question aimed towards JeremyR but as always everyones input is appreciated.

It's my understanding that to achieve 'true' potential you have to use stacked batteries. Also to exceed 15W you have to switch to variable voltage. At what point do you need to switch from RMS to mean?

 

[tchavei]

Mine is set to Rms. I don't have the time right now but next week I could come up with some kind of adaptor and insert a probe to get a live feed of what voltage / amperage is actually being fired into the atty?

 

[JeremyR]

Yeah I may speak like I know what I'm talking about. I'm going off what I've noticed with my v3 using it every day with different setups. I still keep in mind that I could be wrong.

They do state 4 amps on the mini but also on the v3 and the v5 is physically telling us it's only achieving 2.5 amps just like I suspected.

On the other side of it if you have a weak cheap or old battery it will restrict its output capabilities.

Yes I only see true potential myself using stacked. Realize I run it as high as possible pushing it to its limits, and see big differences between batteries and with different ohms in single mode. 2.4 ohms was the sweet spot realizing the most heat and vapor. Inline with 2.4 ohms being 2.5 amps at 15w. It's maximum power output. I noticed more power with 2.4 compared to a 1.5ohm @ 15w with single battery.

Overall I will say if you run in higher wattages / voltages it works a heck of a lot better with stacked batteries regardless. I get noticably higher power and much much longer vape time before any voltage drop is noticed.

Yes I use voltage mode to reach higher wattages. The wattage computer can only regulate/ compute to 15w. When it's set at voltage I believe it just shoots that voltage no wattage calculations involved.

As for 7v I multimeter off the 510 or rda posts. and I think it was in wattage mode that I saw it put out 7v stacked and in single it put out 6v. It wasn't very scientific but I did see 7v in stacked mode.

I haven't run it in mean mode only rms. Mean mode does put out even higher power as the algorithm doesn't take other factors into account or something like that. *edit - I just checked and I am in mean mode, I must have changed it at some point in the past trying to get maximum power. And truthfully at 6v with stacked batteries I'm struggling to notic any difference at all between the two... But I am at maximum power with maximum input.

Just going off the top of my head between jobs at work. I'm really just trying to help those wanting more power from their v3...

I would have moved on to mechs if I didn't start stacking. And those are more dangerous due to having to lock the fire button to prevent a constant auto fire and no short protection to prevent a possible battery vent. The v3 will shut down it has protection built in.

 

[fairmana]

Mine is set to Rms. I don't have the time right now but next week I could come up with some kind of adaptor and insert a probe to get a live feed of what voltage / amperage is actually being fired into the atty?

That could be a good way to get to the bottom of what is going on. However it may not be as easy as you'd think. Based on what I've read on the internet, most voltmeters (especially the cheaper ones) will only take measurements using AVERAGE (or MEAN) voltage or current and won't measure in RMS (also known as EFFECTIVE). Many meters also assume the waveform being measured is a sine wave and won't provide accurate measurements where a PWM square wave is concerned. This could obviously make things problematic when trying to get an accurate reading.

A while back I saw a video review regarding a device that screws between the APV and the topper that is supposed to give accurate measurements including both MEAN (AVG) and RMS (EFF) power. I wish I had held on to the link. If I remember right, it also had a USB cable that went to a PC so you could track the measurements on a computer. I think a guy in Australia was making them and selling them online (waiting list?). It might not be the cheapest solution, but at least you'd know your measurements were correct. Barring that, you could also use an O'scope and measure the duty cycle of the waveform and from that calculate your power with the right equation.

 

[tchavei]

Hi. I was thinking in using an eagletree telemetry system I have mounted in my RC gliders. If I remember correctly, I can set it to measure amps and voltage up to 100x per second. It connects to a computer and has a virtual dashboard showing live feed if you want. I mostly use it to check propeller motor battery efficiency during a flight but also to measure temperatures, servo throws etc. When on a glider, as I need more storage capacity, I usually set it to once per second reading or so but for this experience I could set it at maximum sampling rate. Just need to figure out how to hook it up between the atty and the mod.

 

[JeremyR]

Tchavei that would be awesome. If it worked we may be able to run experiments to find out what it really puts out.

Here's a link that will take you to one discussion on this in the past. Tunggua ran some test a few post back from here -

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...p-post13143141.html?highlight=7v#post13143141

 

[67Tele]

If I can expand on Marty's post a bit, I've been a member of a guitar forum for over 15 years. A forum that began with and primarily focuses on one model of guitar. In the beginning there were a few members who knew this guitar in it's totality. Every aspect, all the history, and details down to the number of threads of particular screws. They were a wonderful asset to the forum especially for new people.

This thread (and forum) have those same level of knowledge and experience and it's given freely.

Thank you all for passing along what you've learned and discovered.

I'm loving all this.
Nothing beats chewing it out mixed with some real world tests. I think there are far to many people who like to speak with authority on a matter and basically don't have a clue. The internet Is riddled with them.

 

[tchavei]

Like I said, I will try to hook it up to the mini and atty and see what comes out of it. I have some doubts if the eagletree is able to make a pass-through at 0 Ohms but we will find out soon enough.

Regards
Tony

 

[dsconnell]

As Jeremy explained in a previous post, it depends on the battery configuration you are using.

We need to remember that the Sigelei ZMAX is a digital device and ALWAYS uses 6 volts to fire the atty using pulse width modulation. What changes the power to your atty is the duration of those 6 volt "pulses". The 6 volt pulses reproduce the same level of energy as the comparable DC analog voltage or power level your device is set to. So for example, if you have your mod set to 4 volts, the 6 volts pulses would have less duration than if you had it on a setting that required 5 volts. The duration of those 6 volt digital pulses can be made to reproduce the same heating effect at your atty as if you were applying a straight analog DC voltage from a mech mod (within the capabilities of the device obviously).

Since this device is designed to use different battery configurations, it needs to be able to sense the input supply voltage from the battery and then make a decision on what strategy to use to power the device. Since the input voltage from the battery is never 6 volts which is what it needs, the input voltage either needs to be increased or decreased in order to power the device. To accomplish this, the device either uses a "boost circuit" or a "buck converter" to get the correct working voltage of 6 volts.

When using only one battery, the device uses its boost circuit to increase the 4.2 volts from the battery to the necessary 6 volts the mod needs for those pulses. Since the voltage is increased, the current is decreased (Law of Conservation of Energy). For this reason and probably for other reasons based on the boost circuit components and how it's designed, it cannot provide more than 2.5 amps. Sigelei does not advertise this limitation and this is what can confuse people when they attempt to get more than 2.5 amps to the atty with a single battery and can't understand why they are having a problem.

When you are using 2 stacked batteries, the device uses a buck converter to take the combined 8.4 volts from the batteries and reduce it to the 6 volts the mod needs for the pulses. Using the buck converter to decrease the voltage gives the added benefit of increasing the existing current beyond what the batteries are currently providing. Since voltage is decreased, current is increased (Law of Conservation of Energy). The increased current capability of the buck converter is what enables the device to provide 4 amps of current to the atty when the batteries are stacked.

I hope this helped eliminate any confusion, and I apologize ahead of time if I didn't explain this very well...

This is why I like this thread so much. There is such good information out there that people are willing to share with all of us.
Thank you to all the contributors!!!

 

[PaulBHC]

I was going to post some good news from Desert Vapes that they can increase the warranty on mods but then discovered that they have remove Sigelei from the website.

 

[yzer]

I was going to post some good news from Desert Vapes that they can increase the warranty on mods but then discovered that they have remove Sigelei from the website.

Desert Vapes have made some changes. They no longer have Sigelei products on their main site. They sell Sigelei Zmax V3 in flat top and round top but only in-store or for local delivery near Gilbert, Arizona.

Advanced Mods

 

[AndriaD]

Desert Vapes have made some changes. They no longer have Sigelei products on their main site. They sell Sigelei Zmax V3 in flat top and round top but only in-store or for local delivery near Gilbert, Arizona.

Advanced Mods

Well that just blows for all of us that DON'T live in AZ.

Andria

 

[JeremyR]

Here's a good discussion on rms vs mean

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/apv-discussion/361619-define-rms-avg.html


I ran a barge of tests last night will post results later. .. Single battery is limited..

 

[Patrick H]

Desert Vapes have made some changes. They no longer have Sigelei products on their main site. They sell Sigelei Zmax V3 in flat top and round top but only in-store or for local delivery near Gilbert, Arizona.

Advanced Mods

I sent them an email yesterday asking about Sigelei. They replied that their supplier no longer handles Sigelei, so they won't carry them any longer. I wonder why they still sell them locally?

 

[yzer]

I sent them an email yesterday asking about Sigelei. They replied that their supplier no longer handles Sigelei, so they won't carry them any longer. I wonder why they still sell them locally?

Maybe they don't have enough V3s left to put it online. I used to see DV selling out new V5s in two weeks. I remember seeing something on the Ivy Sigelei Facebook page about Sigelei looking for a new distributor about six weeks ago. This hasn't affected Varitube yet but maybe they deal directly with Sigelei.

 

[yzer]

The Ivy Sigelei page is a hoot. Ivy is a Sigelei employee. She posts the latest Sigelei news and links her YouTube videos there. Vicky Sigelei is one of her friends who also works at Sigelei and posts there. Vicky's English is a little challenging.

 

[PaulBHC]

DV had a promo on facebook and I got 20% off for doing reviews for things that I purchased. With free shipping over 50, I got a few things and spent almost 100.

 

[JeremyR]

Results of digital multimeter tests on the v3.

Using a flash e vapor base with a 1.8 ohm coil testing off the mounting posts with coil attached. This may not be completly accurate but accurate enough to show a difference between the two. Each reading is an average of three readouts.

Stacked batteries.

Stacked at full charge efest red 18350

1.8ohm 6v setting

Rms output - 5.55
Mean output - 5.95

Unloaded off the 510 connector battery 7.6v
6v setting - 4.8v
15w setting - 7.42v ouput


-----_

Single battery efest red 18650 @ 4.0v

1.8 ohm 6v setting

Rms output - 4.45
Mean ouput - 4.47

At 15w setting - 4.3v output
At 10w setting - 4.25
At 8w setting - 3.45
At 7w setting - 2.9v

The single battery was literally dropping in output power during the test. I came back with lower results when I tested the first setting at the end.

 

[tchavei]

Nice. Did you do some analysis with a single 18350?

Thx

Regards
Tony

 

[JeremyR]

Single 18350 would be the same at the same voltage ... except the Voltage drop would occur faster as the battery runs down faster.. As it drops . volt for . volt the ouput will suffer. Same goes for any device including of course mechs.

I wouldn't even try it for my vaping. Id kill it too fast. I'll think about it but I've never run in 18350 and my noalox has been set and working great for 3+ months... I guess I could tighten down to 350 and renoalox.

This does explain why you notice a difference in wattage mode. It's lower across the board oddly so that changing the settings does produce a difference till it caps out at 4.3 @ 15