Sigelei Zmax V3 and V5 Telescopic: User's Group

[JeremyR]

I would go with the sony vct, over the aw it will hold up better through the charge. As a battery depletes its own amp output declines as well. And the Sigelie's output declines with it. The sonys won't be stressed as much as the efest when they drop below 3.7.

What are you planning on running on it. Anything below 2.4 ohm won't reach 15w unless you stack 18350s.

 

[67Tele]

I would go with the sony vct, over the aw it will hold up better through the charge. As a battery depletes its own amp output declines as well. And the Sigelie's output declines with it. The sonys won't be stressed as much as the efest when they drop below 3.7.

What are you planning on running on it. Anything below 2.4 ohm won't reach 15w unless you stack 18350s.

Thanks Jeremy

I'm using the nautilus Mini with 1.8 ohm coil between 9.0 to 11.0 watts. I don't plan on rebuilding and I'm fine with that level for the most part. I did pick up a Sigelei 20W in the classified though.I mainly want the 18500 for the shorter length carrying it around at work.

 

[AndriaD]

Not long ago, I mentioned a device I came across (which I couldn't remember the name of) that let you measure a device's PWM output. It turns out it was the ECDMeter, but the guy who was making them in Australia (Stoney) doesn't seem to be making/selling them any more, at least as far as I can tell. That device can measure just about everything you'd want to know on your output (ohms, RMS Power, AVG Power, etc...).

At any rate, I did come across another device called "The Omnitester" that measures the PWM output voltage. It's made by SMOK, and although It's nowhere near as robust as the ECDMeter, the cost is very reasonable at about 20 bucks (about the same as the basic 510 ohm meters that are available). This device says it measure atty ohms and output voltage (including PWM output voltage). It includes both a male and female 510 connector on the unit which allows you to test your device output under load (you can vape with your topper and device connected if you choose to). It only shows output measurements to one decimal point, so if more accuracy is desired, it isn't capable (sub-ohm'ers obviously won't like the ohm-meter on this). I've read that the center post may need to be pulled occasionally if it doesn't make good contact (a 510 adapter would probably solve that problem).

Based on a quick search, Madvapes and a few other vape sites carry them for around 20 bucks (give or take). There are also several YouTube video reviews out there if anyone is interested.

@AndriaD: I came across this ECF thread where you posted that you bought one of these a few months ago. Any additional comments/complaints you could share regarding this device?

Not really; it's a pretty capable device, and I think you just explained what I saw when I connected my Vamo to it; when you connect the Vamo -- or any other PWM device I suppose -- to its male connector, and press the fire button on the mod, you see alternating amounts of power -- low, then high, then low, then high... and I guess that's the PWM. I *have* seen that where it doesn't quite connect to some 510 devices -- like my kayfun that won't let me extend the 510 without loosening the block.

But it still doesn't explain to me why the Vamo in "average" mode is more like the Sigelei in RMS mode, yet in "No 2" mode (the Vamo's answer to RMS I guess) the power is *much* lower -- I have to run it in "No 1" mode ("average") to get anything like the same amount of power as I get from either the Sigelei in RMS mode, or my iTaste vv3's. I posted a thread about it, but nobody ever replied, so I still don't know.

Andria

 

[fairmana]

...you see alternating amounts of power -- low, then high, then low, then high... and I guess that's the PWM.

Thanks for the info Andria. That's weird. How much does the Omnitester vary low and high? If it can read a PWM output, the reading should not vary by much. The reading should stabilize after holding down the fire button for a couple of seconds. Is the reading jumping around and never stabilizing at all? If so, by how much does it vary?

 

[AndriaD]

Thanks for the info Andria. That's weird. How much does the Omnitester vary low and high? If it can read a PWM output, the reading should not vary by much. The reading should stabilize after holding down the fire button for a couple of seconds. Is the reading jumping around and never stabilizing at all? If so, by how much does it vary?

Ok, just checked it again. Right now I have it set at 9.5w, and of course the omnitester is reporting volts, so some math whizzes will have to figure it out, but what I'm seeing is, when I first press the button, it displays 5.9v for about 1 second, then jumps to 6.8v, then down to 6.6v, then back to 6.9v, then 6.7v. The smaller variations were faster, not a full second each. I quit firing it at that point, and when my finger left the button, it showed 3.4v, then zeros.

Andria

 

[silenced]

My v5 very frequently takes 4 or 5 seconds after the button is pressed before it actually fires. Cleaned contacts, cleaned threads, noaloxed threads. No change. Very, very frustrating.

 

[fairmana]

Thanks again for your input Andria. Hmmm. That isn't giving me much of a "warm fuzzy" feeling about how well this tester performs on PWM devices. By the way, are you using your Sigelei in the above test or your Vamo? What resistance atomizer were you using? Were you in RMS or Mean? Sorry for all the questions... I'm just trying to get a feel for how close to the ballpark your output reading was.

I tried to find a review where they use a PWM device in a demonstration of the meter, but they all show it being used with mechanical mods instead. Frustrating.

 

[AndriaD]

Thanks again for your input Andria. Hmmm. That isn't giving me much of a "warm fuzzy" feeling about how well this tester performs on PWM devices. By the way, are you using your Sigelei in the above test or your Vamo? What resistance atomizer were you using? Were you in RMS or Mean? Sorry for all the questions... I'm just trying to get a feel for how close to the ballpark your output reading was.

I tried to find a review where they use a PWM device in a demonstration of the meter, but they all show it being used with mechanical mods instead. Frustrating.

That was with the Vamo, but there was no atomizer involved, since I had the Vamo screwed to the Omnitester's male connector. What I'm actually using with the Vamo right now is a 3.2 ohm single-coil XL carto in a Smok UDCT tank.

I'll put my Sigelei on it and see how that does, and report back.

Andria

PS: the Vamo was in mode NO 1 -- which they called "average" -- probably corresponds to Mean.

 

[fairmana]

My v5 very frequently takes 4 or 5 seconds after the button is pressed before it actually fires. Cleaned contacts, cleaned threads, noaloxed threads. No change. Very, very frustrating.

My V5 is at the point now that I have to press pretty hard to get it to fire. I know I'm finally pressing it hard enough when the display finally lights up and shows me what I'm vaping at. You mentioned it takes 4 or 5 seconds before it fires... Is the screen coming up when you initially button or is it taking an additional 4 or 5 seconds to actually fire after the screen comes up?

 

[AndriaD]

Ok, I tried the Sigelei on the omnitester, a series of tests. The sigelei is set to RMS mode, and it shows, because I have it set to 9.5w also, and the voltage reported is a bit lower than what I was getting on the Vamo.

Here's 5 different tests and voltage outputs -- the last number in each set is what displayed when I took my finger off the fire button.

4.1
6.1
5.8

5.9
6.1
6.0
5.4

3.2
6.1
6.0
4.9

5.9
6.1
5.4

3.6
6.1
5.6

The ones that are just 3 numbers stayed solid at 6.1v, no flickering; the 4-number sets were a slight flicker, just after hitting 6.1.

Andria

 

[fairmana]

Andria, all of those results were with the Sigelei in the 9.5 watt setting, right? I wonder if you need to load the APV in order to get any accuracy.

Would you be willing to put a topper on one side and the Sigelei on the other side and test it again with a load on it?

If you could pass along the following info after your test, I'd be very grateful:

- Resistance value of the coil as measured by the Sigelei
- What RMS power level you have the Sigelei set to (9.5 watts is fine).
- The Omnitester reading you got

I really appreciate your help with this! Sorry if this is starting to be a pain!

 

[AndriaD]

Andria, all of those results were with the Sigelei in the 9.5 watt setting, right? I wonder if you need to load the APV in order to get any accuracy.

Would you be willing to put a topper on one side and the Sigelei on the other side and test it again with a load on it?

If you could pass along the following info after your test, I'd be very grateful:

- Resistance value of the coil as measured by the Sigelei
- What RMS power level you have the Sigelei set to (9.5 watts is fine).
- The Omnitester reading you got

I really appreciate your help with this! Sorry if this is starting to be a pain!

That's ok, happy to help, whatever it is you're trying to figure out -- I don't understand it, but I guess I don't have to -- most of the technical minutiae of this stuff is wayyyyyyyyyyy over my head.

I did what you said, and attached the Kayfun i've been using on the Sigelei, to the other side of the omnitester. It has a resistance of 1.8 Ω. Sigelei still in RMS, still at 9.5w.

here's the readings:

3.6
4.1
2.4

3.2
4.1
3.5

3.8
4.1
3.1

3.1
4.1
2.6

You can see it's hitting that 4.1v solid everytime. With a resistance of 1.8, seems like it ought to be 4.3.

Andria

 

[sanjosse]

The Ivy Sigelei page is a hoot. Ivy is a Sigelei employee. She posts the latest Sigelei news and links her YouTube videos there. Vicky Sigelei is one of her friends who also works at Sigelei and posts there. Vicky's English is a little challenging.

yzer, Ms. Ivy is one of the better Sigelei representatives. I've worked with her the last 2 years, and she has bent over backwards to answer all my questions, and has went out of her way to accommodate my requests. If you're a registered ECF member, and frequent the classified section, you'll know what I'm talking about.

Not long ago, I mentioned a device I came across (which I couldn't remember the name of) that let you measure a device's PWM output. It turns out it was the ECDMeter, but the guy who was making them in Australia (Stoney) doesn't seem to be making/selling them any more, at least as far as I can tell. That device can measure just about everything you'd want to know on your output (ohms, RMS Power, AVG Power, etc...).……

fairmana, I came across your previous post in which you were asking about the meter that you finally found, the ECDMeter. I was fortune enough to become friends with Stoney, and he was kind enough to let me offer the members of ECF the opportunity to purchase one of his advanced meters. And yes, to many enthusiast's dismay, he no longer sells the ECDMeter. I've attempted to persuade him many times but to avail. Luckily I still have one and use it mostly to build sub-ohm stuff.

 

[yzer]

yzer, Ms. Ivy is one of the better Sigelei representatives. I've worked with her the last 2 years, and she has bent over backwards to answer all my questions, and has went out of her way to accommodate my requests. If you're a registered ECF member, and frequent the classified section, you'll know what I'm talking about.

Thanks sanjosse, that's good to know. I like reading the Ivy Sigelei page. I am a registered ECF member but not a verified member as I have no interest in the classified section. I've never seen it.

 

[fairmana]

You can see it's hitting that 4.1v solid every time. With a resistance of 1.8, seems like it ought to be 4.3.

Thanks for those figures Andra, and sorry for the late reply. We had some friends who are traveling north stop over and stay the night with us last night.

4.1 volts RMS is "dead on" for a setting of 9.5 watts RMS with a 1.8 ohm coil, so that's good news. We can assume that you need a load on the output for a reliable reading for PWM devices.

It sounds like you're saying the Omitester was sitting solid on 4.1 most of the time and not bouncing around to different values, is that correct?. If so, it doesn't sound like a bad little meter. I haven't come across anything else on the market for the general vaping community to test the output of a PWM device, so I'm happy to hear that the Omnitester could be a decent option.

Going back and looking at your Vamo output results, it appears the Vamo will show a reading of 6.1 when it doesn't have a load on it. I'm guessing that the peak pulse voltage of the Vamo's PWM signal is 6 volts, just like the Sigelei. That would indicate to me that the Vamo's PWM signal is at full 100% duty cycle (flat 6 volts DC with no pulses) when there is no load present on the output. You'll likely need to put a load on it (coil) and try again using the meter just like you did with the Sigelei if you want to get a good reading on the meter. If you'd like to post your results, I'd be more than happy to help you decipher them. It might be a good idea to test the Vamo in Volts, RMS, and Mean outputs so we can compare them. Maybe we can figure out what's going on with your Vamo.

At the very least, you now know what your output needs to be on your Vamo so you can get the same 9.5 watt vape as on your Sigelei (~4.1 volts). You can put your Vamo and the 1.8 coil on the Omnitester and adjust the Vamo output settings until you get something close to 4.1 volts.

Anyway, thanks again for your patience and for sharing those results!

EDIT: Oops... I just realized that the 6.1 volt output was the Sigelei's output and not the Vamo's output. My mistake.

 

[fairmana]

fairmana, I came across your previous post in which you were asking about the meter that you finally found, the ECDMeter. I was fortunate enough to become friends with Stoney, and he was kind enough to let me offer the members of ECF the opportunity to purchase one of his advanced meters. And yes, to many enthusiast's dismay, he no longer sells the ECDMeter. I've attempted to persuade him many times but to avail. Luckily I still have one and use it mostly to build sub-ohm stuff.

Yeah, it's a shame Stoney isn't making them available anymore, although I'm sure he has good reasons. It can't have been easy to pump out those ECDmeters when you think about the time and effort he had to put into it as well as other costs and shipping headaches (as far as I can tell, they were selling like hot cakes). I wonder if he has considered selling the rights to his ECDmeter to a company willing to produce them? I'm sure he put a bunch of hours into designing and perfecting the ECDmeter and it would be satisfying to see him get more out of it if he no longer plans to make them.

 

[silenced]

My V5 is at the point now that I have to press pretty hard to get it to fire. I know I'm finally pressing it hard enough when the display finally lights up and shows me what I'm vaping at. You mentioned it takes 4 or 5 seconds before it fires... Is the screen coming up when you initially button or is it taking an additional 4 or 5 seconds to actually fire after the screen comes up?

The screen comes up when I press the button and then 4 or 5 seconds later it fires. This doesn't happen every time but it seems to happen just as often as it doesn't happen.

 

[fairmana]

The screen comes up when I press the button and then 4 or 5 seconds later it fires. This doesn't happen every time but it seems to happen just as often as it doesn't happen.

That's a strange symptom. It's never happened to me and I've never read that it happened to anyone else on this thread. It sounds like you already cleaned and Noalox'd everything based on your last post. Have you tried a different topper to see if the problem goes away? If you've tried everything, maybe replacing your failing button is what is needed to clear that symptom up, although it certainly wouldn't have been my first guess.

By the way Silenced, what resistance coil are you using? What voltage/wattage are you vaping at?

 

[AndriaD]

You'll likely need to put a load on it (coil) and try again using the meter just like you did with the Sigelei if you want to get a good reading on the meter. If you'd like to post your results, I'd be more than happy to help you decipher them. It might be a good idea to test the Vamo in Volts, RMS, and Mean outputs so we can compare them. Maybe we can figure out what's going on with your Vamo.

At the very least, you now know what your output needs to be on your Vamo so you can get the same 9.5 watt vape as on your Sigelei (~4.1 volts). You can put your Vamo and the 1.8 coil on the Omnitester and adjust the Vamo output settings until you get something close to 4.1 volts.

Anyway, thanks again for your patience and for sharing those results!

EDIT: Oops... I just realized that the 6.1 volt output was the Sigelei's output and not the Vamo's output. My mistake.

Yeah the Vamo was showing 6.7-ish, bouncing around a little, but now I know to put the UDCT on the other side of the omnitester so I can really see what's happening. To be able to correlate the output-test results to the setting, it would probably behoove me to use voltage mode rather than wattage; I just don't know what voltage to set it at, I'm so accustomed to setting wattage for my preferred vape.

I was running the Vamo at 9.5w, but in the "NO 1" mode, which they call "average" which I guess is much the same as "Mean". But when I put it in the "NO 2" mode (as the instructions I read online for the Vamo's settings suggest is best), I set the thing at 10w... and it was like it was barely even "on" -- very little taste or vapor. So I'm just leaving it in NO 1 mode; running at 9w today.

Andria

 

[JeremyR]

That's ok, happy to help, whatever it is you're trying to figure out -- I don't understand it, but I guess I don't have to -- most of the technical minutiae of this stuff is wayyyyyyyyyyy over my head.

I did what you said, and attached the Kayfun i've been using on the Sigelei, to the other side of the omnitester. It has a resistance of 1.8 Ω. Sigelei still in RMS, still at 9.5w.

here's the readings:

3.6
4.1
2.4

3.2
4.1
3.5

3.8
4.1
3.1

3.1
4.1
2.6

You can see it's hitting that 4.1v solid everytime. With a resistance of 1.8, seems like it ought to be 4.3.

Andria

This is exactly what I expected to see andria thanks for confirming.

Same thing my multimeter says....4.1v (4.3 would be 10.27w)

I think what we really want to see is next time you do a coil. Before you wick it - blast it at 15w. Then stack the batteries and hit it at 15w. Then hit it at 6v ! We want to see what yours says; but I have a feeling the same thing as mine.

Thanks Andria!