Sigelei Zmax V3 and V5 Telescopic: User's Group

[yzer]

My V5 arrived. Flat top. The actual flat top with the air slots.

It only came with one bottom cap, the small one. So if I stack there are threads exposed on the tube. Also the spring would be nearly fully compressed. Which I understand applies too much pressure on the B+ connector and therefore the board/bracket.

Has anyone else only had the small cap dilivered with a ZMAX V5 or is my difficient?

Yes, the short battery cap is not the best choice for 2x18350 because it leaves tube threads exposed causing tube wobble. I have purchased all of my Sigeleis from US vendors and have no experience with fasttech. My two Sigelei Zmax V3s and V5 were ordered from three different shops. The first V3 was shipped with the tall battery cap only while the second generation V3 and V5 shipped with both caps.

The 10mm cap is best used with single 18350 batteries only. This gives the Sigelei V3 and V5 it's shortest length of 100mm, the same as Sigelei Zmax Mini. Depending on spring length the tall cap may or may not have weak spring contact when used with a single 18350. The best choice for 18490, 18500, 18650 and 2x18350 is the longer 15mm cap as the 15mm cap is easier tho thread onto the tube than the short cap. With the battery tube length properly adjusted V3 and V5 tube lengths with batteries longer than 18350 are the same with either cap.

I have seen some posts on this thread from other users who received only the short cap but can't recall which vendors they purchased from.

It seems that some distributors or vendors do not ship V3 and V5 with both battery caps while others do. We also see variations in top caps, button materials and logo placement from vendor to vendor. It seems as if Sigelei will customize these features for anyone who places a large factory order with them.

 

[yzer]

Cleaned out my vaping cupboard today took a photo of all my vaping essentials.

I consider myself a vaping minimalist. I have some extra bottles, the old E-Power 14650's and other stuff not shown. All the DIY lab ware and supplies are here. I've got the Sigeleis, the Omron replacement switches, travel chargers, red pill bottles for larger batts and all of my IMRs. DIY juice is minimalist simple for me, I don't use flavoring. The little Tupperware tub lives on the kitchen counter and contains everyday tools for refilling the carto tank and changing out cartos. The nicotine base is stored in the freezer. That's a six month supply of Smok cartos.

 

[PaulBHC]

We pay too much for VG by buying it at CVS or Walmart but it is so convenient. Still less than a pack of smokes for a bottle that will last a while.

 

[yzer]

True, the 177ml bottles of CVS Glycerin USP cost more but I like having fresh VG to work with. Once a USP approved bottle of glycerin is opened the product is no longer USP and should be used up within 12-18 months. These bottles of glycerin have five year expiration dates for shelf storage if not opened.

 

[fairmana]

I used to keep my VG/PG nicotine mix in the fridge, but I noticed on one batch that some of it congealed, which didn't go away once it warmed to room temp. I thought it might have just gone bad, so I tossed it (I think it was partly an issue with the online vendor I got it from, but I can't be sure). Anyway, it worried me that it would happen again. Instead of the fridge, I've also read that you can just store it in a dark cool place, so that's what I've been doing the past couple of months. I've read/heard so many different opinions on where its best to store it that I'm not sure which way to go. Is freezing it working out well for you Yzer? I assume you take it out a day or so before you need it to let it thaw...

 

[tchavei]

Kinda interested in this too. I have over 500ml stored in a dark closet but temps are high here. Bought a few tainted pharmaceutical glass bottles but unsure if I can put the eLiquid into -18C and hope it will survive... I'm pretty sure it will crystallize as it is strong menthol based but it should liquefy at ambient temperature again...



Regards
Tony

Sent from my GT-I9195 through Tapatalk

 

[yzer]

I used to keep my VG/PG nicotine mix in the fridge, but I noticed on one batch that some of it congealed, which didn't go away once it warmed to room temp. I thought it might have just gone bad, so I tossed it (I think it was partly an issue with the online vendor I got it from, but I can't be sure). Anyway, it worried me that it would happen again. Instead of the fridge, I've also read that you can just store it in a dark cool place, so that's what I've been doing the past couple of months. I've read/heard so many different opinions on where its best to store it that I'm not sure which way to go. Is freezing it working out well for you Yzer? I assume you take it out a day or so before you need it to let it thaw...

I have handled 100mg nicotine VG base in different ways while I have used it during the past two years.

The first year I got the 250ml jug of 100mg VG and immediately mixed it down with VG to 25mg and froze it all up in glass Boston round bottles. This worked fine. I noticed no degradation of the nicotine at all. It all stayed clear over the next year and more of use. The problem was I kept reducing the nicotine level of my finished juice and I had to keep recalculating the dilutions from the 25mg base I bottled up.

Last January I bought another 250ml jug of 100mg VG. I handled it differently this year. I mix about 150ml of finished juice at a time using the 100mg VG directly from the jug. 150ml of finished juice will last me about two months and I keep this in a bottle at room temperature until used up. I keep the 100mg jug frozen when I don't need it for mixing. I get a little degradation of the nicotine this way. It is slightly yellowed when poured from the jug at 100mg but clear after I dilute it down. I like mixing with 100mg base. It's easy. Each time I want to mix a batch I take the 100mg jug out of the freezer in the morning and it is thawed when I want to mix that evening. I agitate the contents of the jug by inverting (not shaking) a lot for several minutes before pouring.

Next year I will do things differently to keep oxidation of the 100mg base at a minimum. I will purchase the 250ml jug, agitate it and pour it off into 30 or 50ml glass Boston round bottles for freezer storage. I will use these for mixing next year. Use amber glass Boston round bottles with PolySeal caps. Amber glass filters out light better than cobalt blue glass but doesn't look as pretty.

I tested a small sample of 100mg VG base by storing it in the refrigerator instead of the freezer for six months. The fridge stored base yellowed and the freezer stored base didn't.

 

[yzer]

Kinda interested in this too. I have over 500ml stored in a dark closet but temps are high here. Bought a few tainted pharmaceutical glass bottles but unsure if I can put the eLiquid into -18C and hope it will survive... I'm pretty sure it will crystallize as it is strong menthol based but it should liquefy at ambient temperature again...



Regards
Tony

Sent from my GT-I9195 through Tapatalk

I would keep it in the freezer until needed. You can always shake it up again when needed after thawing. I doubt that you will see separation of the menthol, though.

 

[aikanae1]

I'm pretty sure it will crystallize as it is strong menthol based but it should liquefy at ambient temperature again...

I've had very mixed results with flavorings. Some do fine at room temp for years and I've had some that turn cakey / white deposits at room temp or in the referg. They do seem to store best seperate from the nic. but I think a lot of the variation comes from the difference in flavor manufacturers including menthol. Sometimes I can get it to redissolve with slight heat and sometimes not. I had a large stash of flavors go bad within 6 months from one manufacturer. Ugh. Not a pleasant waste of money.

I store nic seperate from flavors whenever possible and IMO it's worth learning to DIY so that I have a dependable stash of nic stored up.

 

[yzer]

Now, I store VG (or Glycerin USP) in a dark cupboard at room temperature so long at it is stored in the original sealed Glycerin USP approved bottle. It will store that way up to the expiration date of five years so long as the USP seal on the bottle is not broken. Once I pull off the airtight seal on a bottle of Glycerin USP then I keep the remainder of the bottle in the fridge. I will use that all up within a couple of months. Once the seal is broken on a bottle of USP Glycerin it should not be used after after 12-18months.

When you get a quality blended jug of 100mg nicotine VG base it is made from Glycerin USP but the base itself is not USP. This base has been mixed in open air and should be used up within 12-18 months whether stored by freezing or not. Maybe you can keep nicotine base longer than 18 months if frozen. I'm not going there. This violates my basic paranoid nature, I guess.

 

[fairmana]

I did some further testing yesterday. This time I used my V5 so I could verify my output current and voltage vs. what my spreadsheet was telling me I was supposed to be getting (everything seemed to match up well). I adjusted my atty to 1.30 ohms and put it on my OmniTester along with the V5. I also hooked up my Graphical Multimeter as I did before so I could see and measure the output duty cycle of the PWM waveform.

This time, I wanted to see what the difference was between using a single 18650 battery vs. using stacked 18350's in terms of duty cycle, peak pulse voltage, and output capability. During the testing I tried to maintain fully charged batteries but it wasn't easy, so some of my results might go slightly one way or another. Also be aware that my 18350's aren't the greatest, but they seemed to hold up under load (at least while fully charged). I could see that they wanted to deplete pretty rapidly at the higher settings, so I wanted to do as few test at different voltages as possible. I wanted to keep them at their greatest charge so the results wouldn't get too skewed. I ended up charging them again in the middle of the test to be sure they were full.

So a significant thing I saw when using stacked batteries was that the peak pulse voltage of the waveform wasn't as limited. All my results with stacked batteries at different voltage settings showed a peak pulse voltage greater than 6 volts, whereas with a single 18650, it was always below 6 volts. This makes sense since the stacked batteries are providing >7 volts.

I'm seeing that this is very significant because it allows the device to use a reduced duty cycle to transfer the same amount of power to the atomizer when compared to a single 18650 battery. In other words, a single 18650 will hit it's peak duty cycle at a lesser voltage when compared to stacked batteries. In this test using a single battery at 1.3 ohms I hit the peak output at 4.4 volts (100% duty cycle). The same 4.4 volt setting using stacked batteries only resulted in a duty cycle of 47% (less than half of the device's duty cycle capability).

The max outputs I could get on my V5 with a 1.3 ohm atty (with my particular batteries) are as follows:

18650 x1
4.4 volts @ 3.38 Amps (14.9 watts RMS)
100% duty cycle limit reached (I highly doubt this is sustainable for very long. It will depend on battery capacity)

18350 x2
6 volts @ 4.62 Amps (27.7 watts RMS)
94.5% Duty Cycle (still some wiggle room left here before it reaches 100%, so this can increase to compensate for battery depletion)

Again, I've been seeing that as my batteries become depleted, the V3/V5 increases the duty cycle to compensate, so I can't say at this point how long batteries at a particular setting would last before the output was affected. I can see how the quality of the batteries will play a major role in that.

I'm attaching 2 charts that hopefully help put these results into better perspective. One shows the relationship of Duty Cycle to the device voltage setting using both battery configurations. The second compares the "Peak Pulse Voltage" of the PWM waveform to the device voltage setting with both battery configurations. All data was taken during the same test @ 1.3 ohms.

Edit: These relationships will change when using other resistance atomizers.

 

[JeremyR]

Fairmana, this is great you have more equipment to run better tests on this.

First off it does show that stacked have nearly double the output and longevity vrs single.

I do have a question though. Seeing that you measure 4.69 amps on a 4 amp limited chip I would think the test is skewed by around .5 -.69 amps. Do you think it really puts out 4.69 as opposed to 4amps with the stacked batteries???

I'm thinking its actual max output is 4 amps stated by the manufacturer.

So with a .69 offset that would make the max output in single 2.68. Looking at my notes from months ago the max output I got with a fully charged 18650 was found to be 2.67 on my meter.

I don't say 2.67 often because hell after 10-20 puffs that's already decreased. Realistically if you average the ouput in single mode from 4.2v battery to 3.4v battery the average would be 2.5 or less.

I still think one should consider the voltage drop as the battery discharges. It's said a bettery will spend most its time at the nominal voltage. So what ever you get at 3.7 is what you can expect unless you like to change batteries every hour or two.. * and that's were I was before stacking because I was noticing drop off In power.

So with stacked I can run it all day and night a full 24 hours and notice very little voltage drop. Change batteries every 2-4 hours? or once a day? .. I choose once a day.

I have had no trouble stacking so far and it's not any more work it's actually less work because I only charge one set a day. The top battery runs down .02 more than the bottom (this is normal) and you just have to let them both fully charge. As far as rotating .. I dont worry about it, it happens naturally enough.

The battery your stacking does matter I had some year old joytech 16340's I was stacking to begin with wile they worked on at first the run time was diminishing greatly. The new efest imr 18350 I got put out noticably more power and last much longer.

 

[fairmana]

Jeremy, thanks for the feedback. You won't get any arguments from me on why it's better to used stacked vs. single if you plan to vape at high power/low resistance.

As far as exceeding 4 amps, I'm confident that the measurements I took were accurate. That was another reason I chose to use the V5 instead of the V3, since I could read the current on the screen just to double-check my spreadsheet calculations. At the 6 volt setting on the V5 (@1.3 ohms), it showed 6 volts on the OmniTester and 4.6 amps on the screen of the V5. Even if we had a reason to doubt the current reading on the V5, it's easy enough to calculate the Amperage when you know the Voltage and the Resistance values (Ohm's Law). I'm confident of what the OmniTester is telling me because I've had the opportunity to verify it's readings over the course of my testing (over the full range of the V5 voltage settings) as well as validating it with my Graphical Display Fluke meter when it's at 100% duty cycle. Everything has matched up well and I haven't had any reason to doubt any measurements thus far. I have no idea why Sigelei chose to say that it's 4 amp limited, but the measurements and the math say otherwise. Even the display on their own device (V5) showed me a reading above that at 4.6 amps. Your guess is as good as mine, but I'm confident the results are correct.

The stacked 18350 batteries I was using weren't the best, but they were able to provide the necessary current to sustain the output while fully charged. It's possible that the duty cycle and peak pulse voltages might have measured less if I had better batteries, but I think the difference probably would have been negligible. These batteries didn't seem to be limited to less than the current draw that the V5 was asking for, although I can't say that with 100% certainty. My stacked 18350's never reached the 100% duty cycle on the 6 volt setting, but I'm sure it would have gotten there soon enough had I continued to fire the atty another 20 or 30 times. Maybe I'll test that next...

One thing's for sure, and that is that I don't have any future plans for pushing my V3/V5 anywhere near these limits while vaping. Like I said before, I seriously doubt that a battery could sustain the max settings I reported in my previous post for long enough to be worth actually doing it. The "highest output power scenario" I attempted to show doesn't necessarily mean it's a good idea to vape there. You'd be swapping batteries too often. The only reason I did this testing was just to satisfy my own curiosity and to try to learn how this PWM device regulates it's output. I also remember there was some curiosity about the limits of this device in this thread, so it was fun to try to figure that out and share what I learned with everyone. I personally vape at around 8 watts and I'm perfectly happy right there. A single 3100 mAh 18650 battery lasts me between a day to a day and a half before I have to swap out (atty somewhere between 2.5 and 3 ohms).

By the way, just out of curiosity:
What resistance atty do you normally use and at what voltage/power setting? Do you mainly use the V3 or the V5?

Cheers!
Andy

 

[PaulBHC]

For light weight I use an i30 dual top coil 2.2Ω @8w. Otherwise AGA-T2 single coil @ around 2Ω. V5 roundtop.

 

[JeremyR]

Jeremy, thanks for the feedback. You won't get any arguments from me on why it's better to used stacked vs. single if you plan to vape at high power/low resistance.

As far as exceeding 4 amps, I'm confident that the measurements I took were accurate. That was another reason I chose to use the V5 ). I'm confident of what the OmniTester is telling me because I've had the opportunity to verify it's readings over the course of my testing (over the full range of the V5 voltage settings) as well as validating it with my Graphical Display Fluke meter when it's at 100% duty cycle. Everything has matched up well and I haven't had any reason to doubt any measurements thus far. I have no idea why Sigelei chose to say that it's 4 amp limited, but the measurements and the math say otherwise. Even the display on their own device (V5) showed me a reading above that at 4.6 amps. Your guess is as good as mine, but I'm confident the results are correct.

One thing's for sure, and that is that I don't have any future plans for pushing my V3/V5 anywhere near these limits while vaping. Like I said before, I seriously doubt that a battery could sustain the max settings I reported in my previous post for long enough to be worth actually doing it. The "highest output power scenario" I attempted to show doesn't necessarily mean it's a good idea to vape there. You'd be swapping batteries too often. The only reason I did this testing was just to satisfy my own curiosity and to try to learn how this PWM device regulates it's output. I also remember there was some curiosity about the limits of this device in this thread, so it was fun to try to figure that out and share what I learned with everyone. I personally vape at around 8 watts and I'm perfectly happy right there. A single 3100 mAh 18650 battery lasts me between a day to a day and a half before I have to swap out (atty somewhere between 2.5 and 3 ohms).

By the way, just out of curiosity:
What resistance atty do you normally use and at what voltage/power setting? Do you mainly use the V3 or the V5?

Cheers!
Andy

Hey Andy,

Well that's good news! Even better to hear that with a fully charged stacked set I can get up to 27 watts!!! This is great!

I suspect they rated it at the batteries nominal voltage. 3.7 volts or 7.4 stacked. This is probably where you will be at 4 amps stacked or 2.5 amps single. In effect they gave a realistic average number.

I only have the v3, it's the only mod I have and it's never let me down. Since I peaked the 15w setting For my vaping and wanted more I started stacking. Since then I have moved from my 2.4 ohm coils - *which I found were best overall ohms for maximum power over the life of the single battery*.- ...
Now to lower ohm. I typically run 1.3-1.6 ohm coils on rda & rbas ; my target is 1.5 ohms which is hard to nail with sigelie and the gauge I have.

Running parallel 32g. This coil ended up at 1.3 ohm



*
I run the Sigelie pretty much at 6v stacked all the time. Pushing it to the absolute limit. I can tell 1.5 is the peak over the life of the charge.

Also It's safe to say you can get 24w at 1.5 ohms using stacked batteries.

 

[fairmana]

Yeah, with a 1.5 ohm coil on my V5 maxed out at 6 volts I was able to hit 4 amps (24 watts) with stacked 18350's. At that setting I measured 90% duty cycle (6.32 volts peak pulse voltage). That gives you another 10% duty cycle leeway if it needs to boost the duty cycle up to 100% as the battery drains.

By the way... Very nice parallel coil wrap in the pic.

 

[tchavei]

Hmm parallel... That isn't twisted wire is it?

Need to try something like that... Any advantage besides greater contact area?


Regards
Tony

Sent from my GT-I9195 through Tapatalk

 

[JeremyR]

You take two wires and instead of twisting you run them side by side. I like it a lot better than twisted. 14 wraps total instead of 7 wraps twisted. That was a 32g 5/64 diameter coil by the way. I used to run it touching micro coil style, But lately I've been spacing the coils.

 

[tchavei]

Nice. I have to try that out on my next build

Regards
Tony

Sent from my GT-I9195 through Tapatalk

 

[tchavei]

Ok. I couldn't resist and I made a clone of your build lol. Just as any clone, there are some differences though

I. D. = 2.50mm
Wraps = 6 (totalling 12 wraps)
Type = full contact
Wick = Ekowool 2mm figure 8
Final resistance = 1.39 Ohms

Now I'm not sure if it is the coil or just the fact that I rebuilt the kayfun but getting thicker and mellower vapor although cooler than previously. Not sure if I'm also not just imagining it.

Thank you for the idea


Regards
Tony

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