RDA Single coil vs duel coil? Flavour chaser

[DaveSignal]

Now you adding too many variables. I was talking about using the same wire with the same guage.

I build RDAs every day. Always at least 2 coils. I generally use 24g or 22g. Usually either kanthal or nichrome. Sometimes I will do duel parallel builds with the 24g. And always on various unregulated mods. All I am saying is that two coils using the same wire and guage as your single coil build will require more power and hence should be built at lower total resistance if being used on an unregulated mod.

 

[katsu911]

Yes and what im stressing for the newbie is dont use the same wire gauge for the dual coil setup. Use thinner higher gauge wire to achieve same level of vape as in their single coil counterpart. Provided they want to achieve same target ohm.

I guess we both agree that Dual coil with THE RIGHT wire DOES NOT require more power and lag.

 

[BeerGolfClouds]

True if you are building the Dual Coil with the same gauge wire. But why would anyone do that. Heat flux would drop stone cold. Most dual coil setup would absolutely use a thinner/higher gauge wire to achieve the same heat flux and maintain the same surface area to the single coil setup counterpart.
Thinner higher gauge is the key for the faster ramp up speed to maintain if not exceed the single coil counterpart.

Lets put this into our smarty steam engine calculator
Steam Engine | free vaping calculators

They all fire @ 16 watts

Single coil target: 1 ohm using 28ga Kanthal
Heatflux: 284
Surface area: 51mm
Heat Capacity: 14.77
(The heat capacity of the wire affect coil lag. A lower number means a faster coil)

Dual coil target: 1 ohm using the thinner higher gauge 32ga Kanthal
Heatflux: 284
Surface area: 24.8mm each coil = 49.6mm
Heat Capacity: 4.62 each coil. Even if we double it still lower than the single coil counterpart.


and of course if someone for some reason decided to do dual coil using the same 28ga kanthal wire as in the single coil setup:

Dual coil target: 1 ohm using 28ga Kanthal
Heatflux: 71 --> its gonna be a cold vape..
Surface area: 107mm --> way too much surface area for that little heat and power to properly produce decent vape
Heat Capacity: 29.54 ---> yes it will need double the time...
Result: one messy vape..
not to mention i needs a full 13 wrap on 2mm..


They all just numbers in some extend, but i have tested it with many of my builds using this steam engine theory regarding relationship of heat flux, surface area and heat capacity and it seems pretty spot on to determine vape quality.

I think it's important to know what the OP is using as a power source. If he is using a regulated vv/vw mod, the numbers you mention don't really make a difference, as he can obtain the same (or more desirable) heat flux using whatever size kanthal he has available.

With your example above (fixed wattage, single 28ga vs dual 32ga) it's obviously a pointless endeavor. If he has only a 16 watt device, then fine, that's all he can do. But with a regulated device 30 watts or higher, or a mech mod, there's no reason to sacrifice surface area just to have dual coils. Better to use the same gauge wire as your single coil and quadruple (roughly) your surface area with duals to achieve the same resistance on a regulated, or use thicker wire and/or just clone the current single coil to make duals on a mech, lowering the resistance and increasing the power accordingly.

For example, take a 1 ohm single 28ga coil on a mech. Voltage at 3.9. You get roughly 15 watts and heat flux in the 260s. Now add a second coil exactly the same as the first. Now you're at .5 ohm, and the per coil heat flux/heat capacity/wattage doesn't change...each coil gets 15 watts, has a 260ish heat flux, etc. Double the vapor, double the flavor in theory.

I guess all I'm saying is that in a real world situation you'd be hard pressed to find someone running a single coil and dual coils at the same wattage, unless they are limited by a low-powered regulated mod (which nowadays isn't likely). Sorry if I'm off-topic, and let me know if my math is off.

 

[DaveSignal]

I think it's important to know what the OP is using as a power source. If he is using a regulated vv/vw mod, the numbers you mention don't really make a difference, as he can obtain the same (or more desirable) heat flux using whatever size kanthal he has available.

With your example above (fixed wattage, single 28ga vs dual 32ga) it's obviously a pointless endeavor. If he has only a 16 watt device, then fine, that's all he can do. But with a regulated device 30 watts or higher, or a mech mod, there's no reason to sacrifice surface area just to have dual coils. Better to use the same gauge wire as your single coil and quadruple (roughly) your surface area with duals to achieve the same resistance on a regulated, or use thicker wire and/or just clone the current single coil to make duals on a mech, lowering the resistance and increasing the power accordingly.

For example, take a 1 ohm single 28ga coil on a mech. Voltage at 3.9. You get roughly 15 watts and heat flux in the 260s. Now add a second coil exactly the same as the first. Now you're at .5 ohm, and the per coil heat flux/heat capacity/wattage doesn't change...each coil gets 15 watts, has a 260ish heat flux, etc. Double the vapor, double the flavor in theory.

I guess all I'm saying is that in a real world situation you'd be hard pressed to find someone running a single coil and dual coils at the same wattage, unless they are limited by a low-powered regulated mod (which nowadays isn't likely). Sorry if I'm off-topic, and let me know if my math is off.

yes, I agree, and this was what I was trying to imply.
build it for a target vape, not a target resistance, as long as the resistance is safe for your batteries.

My answer to OPs topic question is:
IMO, dual is better. You can open up the airflow more and still get a warm dense vape. Its more vapor and flavor. But you should build it at a lower resistance, because a build like this is going to want more power.... alternatively, if using a regulated mod, you can turn it up a good amount.
Make sure you have good high-drain 20A+ batteries. Make sure you know how your mod works. Measure your builds on an accurate resistance meter to verify they are safe for your batteries.

 

[93gc40]

how on earth is a single coil easier to build than a dual coil?

You kidding Right?. Is nearly always easier to do 1 thing than 2. In a multi coil build all coils must be of the same ohm rate....... Easy to build and mount a single .5 coil. Harder to build 2 or more coils and mount them with with an even split. My example would be using a 2 post atty. Take just the coil legs at .5ohm a difference of 1mm in leg length makes for a big ohm variance.

 

[katsu911]

I think it's important to know what the OP is using as a power source. If he is using a regulated vv/vw mod, the numbers you mention don't really make a difference, as he can obtain the same (or more desirable) heat flux using whatever size kanthal he has available.

With your example above (fixed wattage, single 28ga vs dual 32ga) it's obviously a pointless endeavor. If he has only a 16 watt device, then fine, that's all he can do. But with a regulated device 30 watts or higher, or a mech mod, there's no reason to sacrifice surface area just to have dual coils. Better to use the same gauge wire as your single coil and quadruple (roughly) your surface area with duals to achieve the same resistance on a regulated, or use thicker wire and/or just clone the current single coil to make duals on a mech, lowering the resistance and increasing the power accordingly.

For example, take a 1 ohm single 28ga coil on a mech. Voltage at 3.9. You get roughly 15 watts and heat flux in the 260s. Now add a second coil exactly the same as the first. Now you're at .5 ohm, and the per coil heat flux/heat capacity/wattage doesn't change...each coil gets 15 watts, has a 260ish heat flux, etc. Double the vapor, double the flavor in theory.

I guess all I'm saying is that in a real world situation you'd be hard pressed to find someone running a single coil and dual coils at the same wattage, unless they are limited by a low-powered regulated mod (which nowadays isn't likely). Sorry if I'm off-topic, and let me know if my math is off.

yes you are completely right, when using regulated mod you can just up the watt and get the same vape quality while doubling the surface area. Thats the beauty of it isnt it compared to mech that is limited by ohm law. Thats what it made for.

buy say you are on a stealth mech mod running 18350. now to maxed out the capability you are limited to 0.5 ohm be it single or dual unless u fancy an exploding battery. if a person chose dual setup. he/she would be needing to use a thinner wire isnt it? limitation

i myself still prefer a mech mod compared to regulated mod and knew many other who fancy this limitation for sake of simplicity.

now it all started by quote from monotremata regarding dual coil " it also requires more power to heat both coils so youre going to kill your battery quicker, AND youre going to blow through juice quicker.."
i seen many ppl here throwing that wrong idea.

just trying to state that Dual coil does not kill your battery quicker if they run in same ohm as single coil.
hence all my examples above comparing those running in same ohm
dont want the newbie to get misinformed.

 

[katsu911]

to OP. whats your current single coil set up? are you happy with the warmness of your vape? do you need more vapour? are you on regulated or mech mod? maybe we can crunch some number to get you a better setup

 

[sanguinesolitude]

i nearly always build dual coils. Its not much more work and seems to put out more vapor in my experience.

 

[paulparnham]

You kidding Right?. Is nearly always easier to do 1 thing than 2. In a multi coil build all coils must be of the same ohm rate....... Easy to build and mount a single .5 coil. Harder to build 2 or more coils and mount them with with an even split. My example would be using a 2 post atty. Take just the coil legs at .5ohm a difference of 1mm in leg length makes for a big ohm variance.

lol do you actually build coils?
the only advantage u get with a single coil is its quicker to wrap 1 than 2.
if your making 2 coils on the same drill bit or screwdriver with the same wire and the same amount of wraps u get the same ohm for each one or as close so it makes no difference

 

[paulparnham]

yes you are completely right, when using regulated mod you can just up the watt and get the same vape quality while doubling the surface area. Thats the beauty of it isnt it compared to mech that is limited by ohm law. Thats what it made for.

buy say you are on a stealth mech mod running 18350. now to maxed out the capability you are limited to 0.5 ohm be it single or dual unless u fancy an exploding battery. if a person chose dual setup. he/she would be needing to use a thinner wire isnt it? limitation

i myself still prefer a mech mod compared to regulated mod and knew many other who fancy this limitation for sake of simplicity.

now it all started by quote from monotremata regarding dual coil " it also requires more power to heat both coils so youre going to kill your battery quicker, AND youre going to blow through juice quicker.."
i seen many ppl here throwing that wrong idea.

just trying to state that Dual coil does not kill your battery quicker if they run in same ohm as single coil.
hence all my examples above comparing those running in same ohm
dont want the newbie to get misinformed.

 

[paulparnham]

the magma has one of the tightest draws for a RDA if not the tightest. Fantastic flavour also

 

[Housetek]

There are way to many variables to answer this, it all comes down to personal preference and build skills and what mod/atty you have.

Personally I can achieve a fantastic Flavor build/ or cloud build with single or dual.
Mainly because i am using a 150 regulated mod and have a wide variety of attys that can achieve different things.

in my opinion single or dual coil or tri coil quad penta hex etc etc Doesnt matter to me.

Its very dependent on how much power, what type of atty, wicking method, juice, and the build your throwing on there.

If im going for simple all out flavor, then a single coil 24 nichrome on a veritas works fine for me.

Now as a more advanced builder, i personally think Ribbon REALLY adds to flavor, because there is more surface area.

But ribbon is not used alone, its either wrapped on somthing, or layered, twisted etc etc.

And with that comes more complicated builds which require more space and larger post holes to accommodate.

When it comes to coiling this and putting it in a build the ohms comes pretty low in how i build. Usually .15ohms

so ill generally do a Single coil.

again this is merely a PREFERENCE of mine it doesnt mean its better or worse, i could achieve the same level of flavor on a different build with Dual coil.

You are new to this, so i would start with basic single coils and work on different wicking methods, really play around with builds and see what you like the best.

TL,DR the Amount of coils you have doesn't make a difference in how how much flavor you get, there is a lot more that goes into it. power/juice/wicking/type of wire/ coil build/atty

 

[Housetek]

lol do you actually build coils?
the only advantage u get with a single coil is its quicker to wrap 1 than 2.
if your making 2 coils on the same drill bit or screwdriver with the same wire and the same amount of wraps u get the same ohm for each one or as close so it makes no difference

your both right to a extent

wrapping 2 coils isnt any harder then wrapping one, given that its a basic wrap and you have some experience.

but doing 2 coils there is more room for error, and when it comes to complicated builds dual coils can be more difficult.

also it depends on a deck your building on. Trying to stuff 2 large builds in a 3 post deck with tiny post holes is a lot harder to do then one.