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@m1ke Battery Mooch posted this today on his Face Book:
"batteries that use LiPo chemistry are not “dangerous”!
The topic of battery chemistry has been mentioned a lot in my recent posts so I wanted to talk a bit about LiPo’s. They are not inherently evil.
The battery chemistry they use though, lithium-cobalt-oxide (LCO), can go into thermal runaway at a lower (but still VERY HIGH) temperature than the other battery chemistries and the violence of the reactions when in thermal runaway is greater due to higher temperatures for thereactions inside. These higher temperatures also often ignite the electrolyte.
This means a bit less safety margin for us and perhaps more trouble if the battery is misused or mishandled. LiPo’s (or any batteries) don’t just explode on their own though.
The most often quoted failure rate for 18650’s from the major manufacturers due to an internal defect is one in a million batteries. That includes failures that just cause the battery to drain itself down quickly and stop working. The number that explode is lower.
It takes some abuse to get a battery to go into thermal runaway. But if it does it can be dangerous. It’s why we recommend checking your wraps constantly, not using a dented battery, never overheating a battery, etc.
So if a battery uses LiPo chemistry we might stop for just a second and consider that if there’s another choice that performs just as well and could even be less expensive, that other battery could be a good one to consider using.
We’re all free to buy and use any batteries we want though. Huge numbers of vapers use LiPo’s in their internal-battery mods and large box mods. Millions and millions of LiPo’s are used in our phones, tablets, laptops, etc. Failures are rare. It almost always takes misuse, mishandling, a bad device design, or a device failure to get a LiPo battery to go into thermal runaway.
But if I am asked to recommend a battery to buy I will always default to ones that do not use LiPo chemistry. We have a huge number to choose from. Unless it provides a real advantage (cost, performance, size, etc) that is a priority for us then why use a battery that might have a lower safety margin than others we can buy?
Just my personal opinion...." Mooch
There is a decent chance that the FDA may, in the next couple of years, ban new mods that use external or removeable batteries to be sold in the USA. After consulting with Underwriters Laboratories (UL), it recognizes that internal battery mods (Lipo chemistry) are safer for consumers than mods that use removeable batteries.
New proposed FDA and UL guidelines for e-cigarette manufacturers that will affect YOU.
"batteries that use LiPo chemistry are not “dangerous”!
The topic of battery chemistry has been mentioned a lot in my recent posts so I wanted to talk a bit about LiPo’s. They are not inherently evil.
The battery chemistry they use though, lithium-cobalt-oxide (LCO), can go into thermal runaway at a lower (but still VERY HIGH) temperature than the other battery chemistries and the violence of the reactions when in thermal runaway is greater due to higher temperatures for thereactions inside. These higher temperatures also often ignite the electrolyte.
This means a bit less safety margin for us and perhaps more trouble if the battery is misused or mishandled. LiPo’s (or any batteries) don’t just explode on their own though.
The most often quoted failure rate for 18650’s from the major manufacturers due to an internal defect is one in a million batteries. That includes failures that just cause the battery to drain itself down quickly and stop working. The number that explode is lower.
It takes some abuse to get a battery to go into thermal runaway. But if it does it can be dangerous. It’s why we recommend checking your wraps constantly, not using a dented battery, never overheating a battery, etc.
So if a battery uses LiPo chemistry we might stop for just a second and consider that if there’s another choice that performs just as well and could even be less expensive, that other battery could be a good one to consider using.
We’re all free to buy and use any batteries we want though. Huge numbers of vapers use LiPo’s in their internal-battery mods and large box mods. Millions and millions of LiPo’s are used in our phones, tablets, laptops, etc. Failures are rare. It almost always takes misuse, mishandling, a bad device design, or a device failure to get a LiPo battery to go into thermal runaway.
But if I am asked to recommend a battery to buy I will always default to ones that do not use LiPo chemistry. We have a huge number to choose from. Unless it provides a real advantage (cost, performance, size, etc) that is a priority for us then why use a battery that might have a lower safety margin than others we can buy?
Just my personal opinion...." Mooch
There is a decent chance that the FDA may, in the next couple of years, ban new mods that use external or removeable batteries to be sold in the USA. After consulting with Underwriters Laboratories (UL), it recognizes that internal battery mods (Lipo chemistry) are safer for consumers than mods that use removeable batteries.
New proposed FDA and UL guidelines for e-cigarette manufacturers that will affect YOU.
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He also said he wouldn't recommend them though. I'm guessing that Smok device had no ventilation holes?@m1ke Battery Mooch posted this today on his Face Book:
"Batteries that use LiPo chemistry are not “dangerous”!
The topic of battery chemistry has been mentioned a lot in my recent posts so I wanted to talk a bit about LiPo’s. They are not inherently evil.
The battery chemistry they use though, lithium-cobalt-oxide (LCO), can go into thermal runaway at a lower (but still VERY HIGH) temperature than the other battery chemistries and the violence of the reactions when in thermal runaway is greater due to higher temperatures for thereactions inside. These higher temperatures also often ignite the electrolyte.
This means a bit less safety margin for us and perhaps more trouble if the battery is misused or mishandled. LiPo’s (or any batteries) don’t just explode on their own though.
The most often quoted failure rate for 18650’s from the major manufacturers due to an internal defect is one in a million batteries. That includes failures that just cause the battery to drain itself down quickly and stop working. The number that explode is lower.
It takes some abuse to get a battery to go into thermal runaway. But if it does it can be dangerous. It’s why we recommend checking your wraps constantly, not using a dented battery, never overheating a battery, etc.
So if a battery uses LiPo chemistry we might stop for just a second and consider that if there’s another choice that performs just as well and could even be less expensive, that other battery could be a good one to consider using.
We’re all free to buy and use any batteries we want though. Huge numbers of vapers use LiPo’s in their internal-battery mods and large box mods. Millions and millions of LiPo’s are used in our phones, tablets, laptops, etc. Failures are rare. It almost always takes misuse, mishandling, a bad device design, or a device failure to get a LiPo battery to go into thermal runaway.
But if I am asked to recommend a battery to buy I will always default to ones that do not use LiPo chemistry. We have a huge number to choose from. Unless it provides a real advantage (cost, performance, size, etc) that is a priority for us then why use a battery that might have a lower safety margin than others we can buy?
Just my personal opinion...." Mooch
There is a decent chance that the FDA may, in the next couple of years, ban new mods that use external or removeable batteries to be sold in the USA. After consulting with Underwriters Laboratories (UL), it recognizes that internal battery mods (Lipo chemistry) are safer for consumers than mods that use removeable batteries.
New proposed FDA and UL guidelines for e-cigarette manufacturers that will affect YOU.
Vent holes are only good for a venting cell which to my knowledge does not reach dangerous pressures. The USB port can be sufficient for venting. The Smok device within the video reached a state of thermal runaway to which the pressure build up can greatly exceed the pressure relief a few vent holes provides.
What would cause it to go into that state? It looked like it was just sitting there. Maybe it was charging?
It was being charged. The device was sent to @Mooch for further evaluation which he stated his testing and disassembly/inspection was inconclusive. He did state that 1 of the 2 USB power sources was under powered and below the USB threshold of 4.4 volts. However, this power sources was not the one being used when the device blew up. This is not a conclusive result but a possibility. No mention of the actual power source that was being used.
Yes, the mod in that video was being charged via USB.
Faulty electrical parts, including the internal battery charger, was likely to blame for the explosion and fire. The mod in question was also a SMOK, a brand which has a notorious past for poor quality control and using shortcuts with cheap inferior parts and manufacturing techniques.
Heat is the enemy to batteries. A faulty internal charger can create quite a bit of heat. One of the reasons that an external charger is safer than an internal charger is because you can actually monitor the temperature of the battery being charged by simply touching it; you can't do that with an internal battery being charged in a mod. Most mods are not designed to get rid of excessive internal heat buildup, so the heat has nowhere to freely dissapate. My guess is the heat continued to build up until it reached the temperature threshold to allow the battery to go into thermal runaway.
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