Smoking gateway? Vaping gateway? Wont catch on? Thoughts?

[Spencer87]

As many of you know, I live in Japan.
I am unaware if these have hit the shelves in America yet.
But in Japan, These have just hit the shelves. Apparently they are also in the swiss market.
They are called Iqos, By Phillip Morris, Marlboro. They are saying they are a hybrid between an Electronic cigarette and an actual cigarette. Instead of burning the tobacco it heats it, which supposedly keeps all the tar out of it, making it a healthier choice.
I was thinking, Had I tried this (And I would have had I not found E-cigs, as these are sold in 711, Where e-cigs are only available online), It may have made me more interested to try vaping E-cigs. But on the other hand, It could be these will lead people to start smoking analogs again.
I dont know. Anyways, I am just curious if these are a worldwide thing, or what the vaping community thinks of it.
Apparently from what I read, They are trying it in test markets, Being produced in Italy, and if it proves successful, will produce a larger factory.
Heres the link, Broken, Which includes a video. The video has some Japanese writing, No speaking, but from my limited ability, I can see that the user says it is very good.
http:// vaperanks
.com/phillip-morris-launches-new-type-of-smokeless-cigarette/

Its been in the Vape news, so people may have heard about it already.

 

[Bunnykiller]

havent seen anything here in the US yet.... only problem I see with it is... its a tobacco product

 

[Scootaloo]

I’ve seen stuff similar, like those (DRY LEAF) vaporiser things but not seen them quite like the ones pictured in the original post.

The concept is interesting, but it seems like a bit of a step backwards.

The great thing about vaping the usual way with E-liquid, is that it hasn’t got any tobacco or cigarettes or any of that stuff. It’s something new and it’s revolutionary

 

[CommaHolly]

the last thing I'm doing is throwing more money at Big Tobacco.

 

[Elizabeth Baldwin]

Big Tobacco is trying to get a foot in the door. They've cornered the market for years and hate that vaping has took the world by storm. Previous customers have found a safer alternative, so they are trying to push their tobacco into the market. My question would be does their tobacco in these still contain the chemical additives they add to a traditional cigarette? I'm aware that combustion is the cause of some of the chemicals but it's highly known they add stuff. So do these contain the same stuff they treat their other products with?

We all know Big tobacco can't be trusted.

I enjoy my vaping and will continue to do so, but this is disturbing to me. Even though these won't do well, people will still try them. Vaping has a much higher success rate of getting people off a traditional cigarette than stuff like this.

 

[CommaHolly]

I don't think the vapor is very good either,,,,,,,and if you ask me, it's trouble for US to bring E-cigs and cigarettes any closer in people's minds than they already are.

 

[edyle]

Big Tobacco is trying to get a foot in the door. They've cornered the market for years and hate that vaping has took the world by storm. Previous customers have found a safer alternative, so they are trying to push their tobacco into the market. My question would be does their tobacco in these still contain the chemical additives they add to a traditional cigarette? I'm aware that combustion is the cause of some of the chemicals but it's highly known they add stuff. So do these contain the same stuff they treat their other products with?

We all know Big tobacco can't be trusted.

I enjoy my vaping and will continue to do so, but this is disturbing to me. Even though these won't do well, people will still try them. Vaping has a much higher success rate of getting people off a traditional cigarette than stuff like this.

Oh, no, they wouldn't put those additives in............. not YET.

 

[Elizabeth Baldwin]

Oh, no, they wouldn't put those additives in............. not YET.

They see only in one color, green!

Money

 

[93gc40]

"Gateway" is a (moderated), term used to demonized an activity.. Whatever is the prime ANTI of the day that will be the prime Gateway activity for those activist.

Take whatever "vise" you chose, smoking, drinking, drugs sex, ect. You can find someone to tell you with authority, that any one of them is the Gateway to the others. fact is kids do the Vises as they are available, to them. If the parents smoke they likely start with cigs. If they drink the kids drinks first. Neighbor has a Plant in the backyard they try that. ECT, ECT, ECT They don't think I want to try this and then go to that.. They FIND a this, try it. like it or not and then try the next thing they FIND. There is no SEARCH leading to the finding. Unless you count what comes moms purse, dads drawer, or the liquor cabinet as items searched for.

 

[crxess]

.......and the plot thickens.

 

[Marina2]

This is just a revamped version of R.J. Reynold's old (circa 2000 or so) Eclipse cigarette. It was a flop then when we didn't even have e-liquid and it will be a flop now. I have to wonder where they get their ideas from. Somebody's getting paid way too much for junky work.

 

[93gc40]

This is just a revamped version of R.J. Reynold's old (circa 2000 or so) Eclipse cigarette. It was a flop then when we didn't even have e-liquid and it will be a flop now. I have to wonder where they get their ideas from. Somebody's getting paid way too much for junky work.

Yep.
The "medical" smokers have been trying to perfect the portable tobacco/(DRY LEAF) vaporizer for YEARS. My first E-Cigarette was purchased for this purpose.... Didn't work. So now I use that gear for Ejuice and no longer smoke.

 

[Spencer87]

Hmm, See as I am reading these posts, I start to think of another Idea that they have maybe.
Vaping has become popular in the USA, and Philippines. Here in Japan, While it is becoming more popular, it is still not very popular. Almost everyone looks at me strangely when I am having a vape, And lots of people ask me about it.
It may be that Phillip Morris is trying to get a foot in the door here before vaping becomes more popular.
Or it could be they are trying to influence the emerging market by saying that they are the same as cigarettes.

 

[Stubby]

havent seen anything here in the US yet.... only problem I see with it is... its a tobacco product

I’ve seen stuff similar, like those (DRY LEAF) vaporiser things but not seen them quite like the ones pictured in the original post.

The concept is interesting, but it seems like a bit of a step backwards.

The great thing about vaping the usual way with E-liquid, is that it hasn’t got any tobacco or cigarettes or any of that stuff. It’s something new and it’s revolutionary

And the problem with being a tobacco product is.....? or perhaps, what is it about tobacco that has you so offended.

Tobacco is not the problem, it is the combustion of tobacco and inhaling the smoke that causes problems. The heat not burn idea has been around a while and is a legitimate harm reduction equal to vaping. Tobacco companies should be supported for bringing to market another alternative to inhaling smoke.

The idea that vaping is the solution for everyone is nothing more then fanboyism and is really is out of place for those that really support THR, in all its incarnations.

Big Tobacco is trying to get a foot in the door. They've cornered the market for years and hate that vaping has took the world by storm. Previous customers have found a safer alternative, so they are trying to push their tobacco into the market. My question would be does their tobacco in these still contain the chemical additives they add to a traditional cigarette? I'm aware that combustion is the cause of some of the chemicals but it's highly known they add stuff. So do these contain the same stuff they treat their other products with?

We all know Big tobacco can't be trusted.

I enjoy my vaping and will continue to do so, but this is disturbing to me. Even though these won't do well, people will still try them. Vaping has a much higher success rate of getting people off a traditional cigarette than stuff like this.

The idea that BT is adding, whatever it might be to cigarettes to make them more addictive, or harmful, or whatever, is nothing more then propaganda from the ANTZ. Even organic american spirit, or additive free Winston are just as addictive and harmful as Reds. You are falling for the lies of the ANTZ. Picking and choosing which lie to believe or not believe because it falls in line with your own agenda is not a good direction to go for the vaping community.

 

[Oliver]

This is a very interesting story with lots to be said. I'm pushed for time, so here are some notes.

Background: PMI have been working on iQOS for more than 10 years, and have spent a fortune on it. It's the personal project of CEO Andre Calantzopoulos and is being used very strategically by PMI....

In particular, they've set up a massive EUR500m factory in Bologna, Italy, and have lobbied for separate excise on iQos (under pipe tobacco, I think) while lobbying hard for e-cigs to be included in cigarette excises. So far, it's worked in Italy and Portugal, and may be working in Switzerland. In Italy, however, there's considerable fighting going on against the e-cig tax, so the situation remains fluid.

There's a bit of an inside-tobacco-industry war over the product itself: PMI (obviously) maintains that they're much safer, but other tobacco companies are claiming that their research is fundamentally flawed and they consider iQos to be "basically smoking".

Here's what I reckon: This product is a result of corporate core-competencies (i.e. tobacco) and "innovation through focus group" - they've taken a bunch of e-cigs and given them to smokers and decided that since smokers didn't think they were "authentic" that iQos is going to be a huge success because it mimics smoking. It's a bit classic in the "history of disruption" - PMI are walking into the same old traps.

I've seen some internal research which makes for amusing reading. Conducted by a focus group, they reported that:

Cons: Not as satisfying as a real cigarette

Pros: Fits nicely inside a man's pocket.

Whoop dee woo.

Here's something else, possibly nothing more than a rumour, but I'm hearing it said that PMI is shutting down its in-house e-cig research - although this may mean they're simply looking for acquisitions, rather than abandoning the race.

Regarding the product itself, I'm ambivalent. It's clearly not as safe as vaping, and I'm not convinced smokers will like it. It doesn't "remove" people from the smoking experience as comprehensively as does vaping - so I think many people will use it for a while and go back to smoking. That said, I'm all for a wide range of safer products coming into the market. It is the strategic positioning that worries me, especially as the EU Tobacco Products Directive comes into law next May.

It's a great story for PMI investors, and it's a great strategic play for PMI. It could well be very profitable too - consider the margins available if they get lower excise rates and only slightly undercut the cost of cigarettes. Without the sin taxes in place, they don't need to convert many smokers to make a hell of a lot of wonga.

 

[Oliver]

The idea that BT is adding, whatever it might be to cigarettes to make them more addictive, or harmful, or whatever, is nothing more then propaganda from the ANTZ. Even organic american spirit, or additive free Winston are just as addictive and harmful as Reds. You are falling for the lies of the ANTZ. Picking and choosing which lie to believe or not believe because it falls in line with your own agenda is not a good direction to go for the vaping community.

Hmmmn, it's not quite as straightforward as that. The PH is manipulated through the addition of ammonia, which enables smoke to be inhaled deeply and nicotine to be delivered more rapidly. It's not a direct attempt to make the ingredients more addictive, but to make the overall smoking experience more pleasurable. The net effect is, clearly, that more users become dependent

What's not the case is that there's been some kind of continuing R&D plan to make cigarettes increasingly addictive: this is what I think people tend to believe. Ironically, there was a story some years ago about American Spirit containing the highest levels of freebase nicotine - the assumption being that this would make them more addictive than others (which I doubt, but who knows).

 

[defdock]

I can see this ending badly...

From what I recal, burning cigarette tobacco has some 8000 chemicals...

This may be vaporizing, but still brings up a concern.

UNLIT cigarette tobacco has some 2000 chemicals STILL.

Instead of burning ammonia(yes it is in unlit cigarette tobacco), now I am vaporizing it and getting the full effects of what problems may occur from that and anyother additive that we would be vaporizing.


This "kit" is just a marketing ploy to get a foot into the door in the world of vaping. And it WILL have dire consequences if used...

 

[Oliver]

This "kit" is just a marketing ploy to get a foot into the door in the world of vaping. And it WILL have dire consequences if used...

Yeah, this worries me too - I saw a news article on iQos recently in which the PMI rep referred to iQos as an e-cigarette.

 

[Stubby]

SmokeyJoe, I certainly don't have the inside scope on this so know nothing about the politics, but you will have to explain why heat not burn is clearly not as safe as vaping. Heat not burn has been going on in the USA for some time from small manufactures and does have its fanbase.

I remember a review by TropicalBob from a few years ago and he was impressed with it.

 

[IMFire3605]

Ahhhhh, looks like Marlboro finally had a look at the original 1963 patents and are trying to improve upon it. Might be a test market you are seeing released in areas vaping is not catching on well or restricted...just a thought though.