Smoking is allowed...but vaping isn't [college campus]

[zoiDman]

...

Students should see professors as Respected Mentors that help them with learning. When they bring in unjust / bad / unjustifiable policies, they create an image of Abusive Bozos that need to be avoided / circumvented....

When I read Stuff like this I just Cringe.

Because it Tells me just how Little someone knows about how much Input a Professor, either Tenured or Adjunct, has in the Policy Making decisions on a College Campus in the USA.

And how Blame for something a person Doesn't Like Always seems to fall on the Person standing in front of the Whiteboard looking at the Students.

 

[Strings]

I have to agree with zoiDman, here

Profs at college (and teachers at earlier schools) have very little input on policy. That's the admin pukes

 

[bwh79]

Campus Police are trained to observe different activities of individuals. Not only those that are actively ingesting a particular illegal material, but those that are even carrying said product or even those that are looking to purchase said product act differently than those that are "just going about their business". I for one have taken classes (Criminal Justice) in spotting suspicious activities and it is very easy on about 80% of the time.
As a very easy example if you are a parent and you walk past your child you can usually tell that they are/have been/about to do something wrong. They just don't act right. This in itself is not just cause to arrest or detain said individual but it does allow them to question that person.
In the college that I am aware of there were multiple individuals sent to the hospital due to injuries as well as adverse reactions to substances that were added to the juice. There were even more instances where the Campus Police questioned the individuals and they admitted to the substance.
Your campus may be different, but if it was one campus it would be different, but this is gaining wind due to more issues like those above.

If it is soooo easy to spot the individuals that are doing wrong, have done wrong, or are planning to do wrong, then shouldn't it be an easy task to punish only those individuals, and leave the rest who are "just going about their business" alone without a blanket policy that treats everyone like criminals regardless of what they have or have not done wrong?

 

[caramel]

Because it Tells me just how Little someone knows about how much Input a Professor, either Tenured or Adjunct, has in the Policy Making decisions on a College Campus in the USA.

At this point you'll have to agree that there's indeed something wrong with the educational system.

 

[zoiDman]

At this point you'll have to agree that there's indeed something wrong with the educational system.

I just don't think you Understand how Higher Education works in the USA.

And also (and you are by No Means Alone in this) I don't think you perceive that a College is just like any Other Business. A Business which has Employees and Layers of Management and a Well Defined Org Chart.

When you walk into Target or Best buy or wherever, and you don't like a Companies Policy, do you get Bent at the Sales Clerk or the Cashier? And say that there is Something wrong with the Company because people on the Floor (who are Trying to Help you) Don't make or have much Input to into Corporate Policies?

 

[caramel]

I just don't think you Understand how Higher Education works in the USA.

And also (and you are by No Means Alone in this) I don't think you perceive that a College is just like any Other Business. A Business which has Employees and Layers of Management and a Well Defined Org Chart.

When you walk into Target or Best buy or wherever, and you don't like a Companies Policy, do you get Bent at the Sales Clerk or the Cashier? And say that there is Something wrong with the Company because people on the Floor (who are Trying to Help you) Don't make or have much Input to into Corporate Policies?

I didn't get mad at the professors. If you re-read my posts, you'll notice that I even mentioned that they are not at fault. The fault is highlighted in bold italics. That is something we can agree upon.

 

[zoiDman]

I didn't get mad at the professors. If you re-read my posts, you'll notice that I even mentioned that they are not at fault. The fault is highlighted in bold italics. That is something we can agree upon.

Maybe I Mis-Interperated who "they" were.

Students should see professors as Respected Mentors that help them with learning. When they bring in unjust / bad / unjustifiable policies, they create an image of Abusive Bozos that need to be avoided / circumvented.

Because it Sure Seemed to me that you were Referring to Professors bring in "unjust / bad / unjustifiable policies."

 

[caramel]

Maybe I Mis-Interperated who "they" were.

Ok, let's call them on their name. Impostors of various MBA denominations that actually have no proper qualifications to be where they are.

 

[FOG clouds]

That's absolutely ridiculous. their rationale makes no sense no matter what way you look at it. Whether they're talking about someone with h-oil in there or whether the ingredients are safe... It defies logic. We already know how bad cigs are, and I doubt they're going to ban smoking because the possibility that someone could mix something else in their cigarette paper.

I am so glad my school doesn't care about that what-so-ever. although you do have me worrying that banning e-cigs on campuses may be a trend =(

 

[Redhotchewy]

I can see it happening. Especially since E-Cigs are an unregulated product. You can't drink moonshine on most college campuses either even though some let you drink beer and liquor. That's probably the tactic line they will stick to. Since cigarettes are pretty readily accepted as a product not a drug then its harder to get them banned. They probably want to get smoking banned too but E-Cigs are an easier target right now. Smoking will be next.

 

[zoiDman]

Ok, let's call them on their name. Impostors of various MBA denominations that actually have no proper qualifications to be where they are.

Once again, I you are Making Blanket Assumptions about things you have Very Little Knowledge on.

Like I said Earlier, there is No Love Lost for a Few of the Administrators that I worked with. By they were the Exception. And Not the Rule.

 

[caramel]

Look, if education had no issues, this thread would not have been started.

 

[zoiDman]

Look, if education had no issues, this thread would not have been started.

Tell me One Business or Company or Organization or Group or Collection of 3 People or more that doesn't have an Issue?

If you want to Say that Higher Education has Issues, that's Fine. But perhaps you are Missing that we Churn out a Lot of Highly Educated People every year.

And that is what is Supposed to be about. And all this other stuff is Really Secondary to me.

 

[Cacique]

All right, so they're banning e-cigs because people MIGHT be putting stuff in the e-juice...so, how come they're not harassing people rolling their own cigarettes? Who knows what could be mixed in their tobacco? Have they banned brownies? We know what a lot of people put in those.

No more brownies in college campuses! We just don't know what's in them!!


...That's, IMO, why the policy doesn't work. Anyone can put any substance in many different things, and I've seen many people get away with it without trying. IMO it will always be better to keep an eye out for the behavior than to just ban it out right. Bans just make people angry as was proven with alcohol.

 

[WattWick]

Time to fight for ones right to not be guilty by association. This one shouldn't be too hard to win.

This fallacy in the 'drug logic' should be blatantly obvious to anyone who has it pointed out to them. If someone wants to hide drug use from anyone - they will. The skill sort of comes with the territory.

The vast majority of drug abusers aren't teens and their smokables. It's ordinary, adult people who you wouldn't be able to tell whether ate a lozenge or drugged up.

 

[Cacique]

Great post WattWick, totally agree and was about to post such myself. People who have been doing this have been doing it for long, so banning e-cigs will just punish the ex-smokers as those who use it for something else will just do it in a different way. What's to stop someone from walking around eating some intoxicating brownies? No one would know at all.

 

[caramel]

Tell me One Business or Company or Organization or Group or Collection of 3 People or more that doesn't have an Issue?

Are we talking internal issues or absurd policies regarding the customer? We're discussing the later here, remember?

If you want to Say that Higher Education has Issues, that's Fine. But perhaps you are Missing that we Churn out a Lot of Highly Educated People every year.

I could definitely tell that by the number of questions on Ohm's law here.

 

[zoiDman]

I could definitely tell that by the number of questions on Ohm's law here.

Not all who Attend College Major in Physics or Engineering or Math.

And of those who Do, Some Never Graduate. Or Even Apply themselves while they are there.

 

[Cacique]

Your experience at the college you work at might be different than everyone else's, remember that. I studied at the Art Institute of Fort Lauderdale and dropped out halfway through my degree. They would have charged me around $90K for a bachelor's degree in Video Game Art & Design, but I dropped off then I noticed the majority of the teachers that actually taught the classes I needed were the kind of teachers that dialed it in. I had friends who's teachers would download worksheets off the internet only to have my friend show me the same work sheet at a website for free animation resources, and who would then not explain the material. I even had a teacher give me a D on a project that I followed his advice and every other student at my table could not understand why.

Just because you believe your college handled things right, doesn't mean that it did go well or that things in other colleges are going well.

I guess my point is just that "higher education" isn't always a great thing, all depends on the kind of education and who gave it. Too many doctors out there spouting false information that they get from their schooling.

 

[DC2]

Great post WattWick, totally agree and was about to post such myself. People who have been doing this have been doing it for long, so banning e-cigs will just punish the ex-smokers as those who use it for something else will just do it in a different way. What's to stop someone from walking around eating some intoxicating brownies? No one would know at all.

Just imagine if they tried to ban bottles of water because people could walk around with vodka in them.