Snus for WTA

[TWISTED VICTOR]

It may be true that there are a lot of unkowns when it comes to PV but snus is not at the top of the list when it comes to harm reduction.

Not that I disagree with you Bagazo, you're a really smart fella, but everything, and I really, truly mean "everything" I've seen that has merit in the natural world has only been one part of the complex psycho-puzzle that the simple tobacco plant is able to complete .

 

[Bagazo]

I didn't really mean that PV was the best form of harm reduction. I really just wanted to point out that stonewalls show safer numbers than snus and it is whole tobacco. As far as preference, as you said, that's up to the individual to decide what works best for him or her.

But, I guess you could say that if you are happy with vaping (don't miss the other alkaloids) but worry about heavy use (inhalation of PG) then it would seem reasonable to use your juice like snus. Couple drops on a bit of cotton may work.

 

[TWISTED VICTOR]

I didn't really mean that PV was the best form of harm reduction. I really just wanted to point out that stonewalls show safer numbers than snus and it is whole tobacco. As far as preference, as you said, that's up to the individual to decide what works best for him or her.

But, I guess you could say that if you are happy with vaping (don't miss the other alkaloids) but worry about heavy use (inhalation of PG) then it would seem reasonable to use your juice like snus. Couple drops on a bit of cotton may work.

Ah, understood . There again, though I haven't used Stonewalls, with the results of DVap's tests I probably couldn't consume enough in a days time to be the happy boy I am with snus. But for those that can find satisfaction in Stonewalls it would be the way to go. As to the oral application of eliquid I've thought the same thing. Sort of a self-regulated nicotine gum where we choose the appropriate dosage to fit individual needs.....at a lot less cost .

 

[TropicalBob]

I've tried nicotine hard candy. A flop. A year ago, I tried nicotine liquid nasal spray. Burned too badly. Tried a Band-Aid soaked in liquid and attached to my abdomen. Nothing.

But now I'm working on tests currently with both nasal spray and mouth spray. I had the mouth spray idea before I knew RJR bought Niconovum to get a nicotine mouth spray patent. Hey, THIS WORKS! I use a ratio that gives me 1mg per spray. Same for the nasal spray. 1mg per two-nostril spray.

I'm on my third straight day using the nasal spray and the pain is lessening. But it's still there, and the nose runs so badly that the spray only stays a minute or two. I don't know how to get around this. The burning is declining, however, exactly as it does with Big Pharma' prescription nasal spray. I'll keep it up for a week, the time it is said to grow accustomed to the spray and its reactions.

The first try was terribly painful, causing my eyes to water, etc.

The mouth spray hits the back of my throat and I can taste tobacco. Before long, I've got some lip tingling and numbness. But I can go an hour without adding more nicotine. I'm very impressed so far. No hiccups. No stomach upset. Just a taming of cravings.

Now, I love snus and Stonewalls far too much to quit them, so I will never rely solely on mouth spray or nasal spray. Stonewall is my number one product, in fact, and it's true that it is the safest harm reduction that exists. At 4mg, it is PLENTY powerful enough. It is absorbed better than even snus, being fully dissolvable. We spit out nicotine with every snus we use, portion or loose.

Keep in mind that a cigarette with 12mg of nicotine sends most of it off as side smoke, and the body absorbs about 1mg. I did two cigs an hour .. 2mg. If I do a Stonewall an hour. At least 2mg, perhaps just under 4mg.

I have yet to begin the toothpick experiment -- cause I haven't bought the thick toothpicks I need for that one. I intend to infuse nicotine into the toothpicks, along with a ton of sweetness from VG probably. Pure nicotine in the mouth is pure yuck!

 

[TWISTED VICTOR]

Yes, you have been a busy beaver TB. I know the candy didn't turn out too well, but how about the mouth spray on the yuck scale? Seems like a good method and a high purity nic should be pretty flavorless. Same with toothpicks, but I'd think the nic mg would need to be fairly high to quench a craving. Gee TB, your wife must shudder when she sees you walking toward the kitchen..........

 

[rickghouse]

Hey, THIS WORKS! I use a ratio that gives me 1mg per spray. Same for the nasal spray. 1mg per two-nostril spray.

The burning is declining, however, exactly as it does with Big Pharma' prescription nasal spray.

TB, you got me curious on two counts!

I used big pharma's nasal spray, and it worked. The burning subsided, and it became enjoyable. But after spending over $2,000.00 I had to pack it in.

What are you using? Is it availabe for purchase, or are you making your own?

Stonewall is my number one product, in fact, and it's true that it is the safest harm reduction that exists. At 4mg, it is PLENTY powerful enough.

Second, where would you recommend I get me some of this Stonewall?

Thanks TB (my bank account doesn't thank you ... cha-ching again ... but I do.

Rick.

 

[exogenesis]

...
Exo: I think that the salt is there as a throw back to the days when there was no refridgeration. Snus being moist they had to have a way to keep bacteria at bay. Since now it's usually stored cold/frozen except for a couple of days worth carried around I guess they could leave the salt out but humans being humans there would always be those that would complain that it just ain't the same.

Maybe make your own.

So I guess it's traditional now, still feel it'd be better without salt.
Strange that no manufacturer has tried offering salt-free snus, or maybe they have.

Lot a work in green-leaf to snus, still might be an interesting hobby,
maybe I can get hold of some air-cured tobacco anyone know a good UK source?


Just diluting strong e-juice with water to 10mg/ml gives a practically
identical liquid to that found in the shop-bought pharmaceutical nasal sprays.

 

[TropicalBob]

Rick, TV: I surely wouldn't say I'm ready to recommend others try this. When I first began experimenting with e-liquids a year or more ago, I tried a nasal spray, but Dr. Jim Loi told me some of his patients developed inflammation where the spray hit. He advised me against using nicotine liquid that way. So I stopped.

But I remained curious.

Some time back, I bought a spray bottle of NasalCrom, an over-the-counter allergy product. Its main ingredient is a sodium in purified water. Big Pharma's nicotine nasal spray is 0.5mg per nostril per spray. To equal that with NasalCrom, I drew out 8ml in a hypodermic syringe, then drew 2ml of 48mg unflavored e-liquid. I combined the two. Ended up with 10ml liquid containing 96mg of nicotine. I figured volume and numbers of sprays per ml to get that mix.

I decided for the same nicotine amount -- .5mg per spray -- for the mouth spray. That began with Chloraseptic, which I like anyhow. Tastes great, less filling, etc. I use it nightly for the dry throat woes inhaling PG can cause.

I measured out 8ml of Chloraseptic (KIDS flavor, grape, take that FDA and antis) and added 2ml of 48mg e-liquid.

I spray twice to the back of my mouth.

There's no immediate hit as with smoking a cigarette, but there does seem to be an immediate taste with the mouth spray and aroma of tobacco with the nasal spray. That surprised me. The burning remains with the nasal spray today, but it is lessening with each use. I'm watching for inflammation at either location.

A problem with home experiments is that if I should come down with a cold virus, I wouldn't know what impact, if any, my testing had on me or the illness. I think people here often -- often -- confuse problems from quitting cigarettes with problems they think they have from starting e-smoking. That's understandable, and it is difficult to figure out what caused what.

I'll post more here in a week or so of continued use. Note I still use my Stonewall, snus and nasal snuff.

Rick: Stonewall can be ordered online if your local tobacco shop can't obtain them. I asked my local shop owner -- a friend from my former smoking days -- to carry Stonewall and he orders for me. I like ONLY the Java flavor, BTW.

P.S. I don't trust either of these spray methods enough yet to advise anyone to try this. I'll be a guinea pig again. I don't mind. If it works, we have another potential weapon in our stay-off-cigarettes aresenal. If not, I'll continue what I did before trying this. Fair 'nuff?

 

[rickghouse]

Stonewall can be ordered online if your local tobacco shop can't obtain them. I asked my local shop owner -- a friend from my former smoking days -- to carry Stonewall and he orders for me. I like ONLY the Java flavor, BTW.

I got my Stonewall Java on the way!

I don't trust either of these spray methods enough yet to advise anyone to try this. I'll be a guinea pig again. I don't mind. If it works, we have another potential weapon in our stay-off-cigarettes aresenal. If not, I'll continue what I did before trying this. Fair 'nuff?

Thanks for doing the testing, TB. I'm looking forward to your results, particularily with the nasal approach.

Rick.

 

[TropicalBob]

Nothing definitive, Rick, but I am adjusting to the nasal spray. And the effect of diminished craving is lasting about an hour. Same with the mouth spray, but there is no initial irritation as with the nasal spray.

I'm not sure why I, or anyone, would prefer this over snuff and snus. I don't. After I've finished testing, I'll just know that I have one more option in my arsenal to stay off cigarettes if the worst happens.

Course, with both of these, I'd still need a source of known-content, tasteless nicotine liquid. And that's what is probably most endangered by looming regulations, so these are not an answer should e-smoking be banned.

 

[DVap]

Course, with both of these, I'd still need a source of known-content, tasteless nicotine liquid. And that's what is probably most endangered by looming regulations, so these are not an answer should e-smoking be banned.

Yep... and the amateur chemists will come out of the woodwork... which is a frightening thought.

 

[TropicalBob]

Neither of these is a long-term solution. The nasal spray continues to cause an immediate runny nose, which means most of the liquid escapes within a minute. I have not, however, experienced inflammation as was reported by another researcher trying this.

The mouth spray does not irritate and provides sufficient nicotine to hold off cravings for about an hour. But it certainly can't be called satisfying.

So I recommend neither.

Nasal snuff is a far better solution for nasal delivery; snus and dissolvable tobacco pieces are better for mouth absorption.

(P.S. I had a heck of a time finding this thread again. Posts come so fast and furious now that I lose track of threads I'm involved in.)