So - are we getting it or are we not - nicotine
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AHA! This was the answer I was looking for! So, do you think the alkaloids move from the snus into the PV/VG along with everything else?
In that case, why don't you use this method exclusively, instead?
I was wondering about the free base nicotine in cigarettes getting into the homemade PG/VG solutions. That can't be a good thing. Or is that what helps make it "work" better? Sounds like scary stuff.
AHA! This was the answer I was looking for! So, do you think the alkaloids move from the snus into the PV/VG along with everything else?
In that case, why don't you use this method exclusively, instead?
I was wondering about the free base nicotine in cigarettes getting into the homemade PG/VG solutions. That can't be a good thing. Or is that what helps make it "work" better? Sounds like scary stuff.
Stuffing an entire PG soaked snus into an atomizer is really pretty brilliant. The math works for me, and I'm pretty tough on some of the math around here!
The only drawback I can see is this method is probably very prone to gunking up attys.
Free base nicotine is precisely what you have in any nicotine/PG mixture. The difference between free base nicotine and non free base nicotine is simply whether the nicotine is interacting with a species in solution that the nicotine sees as acidic. Really the main functional difference between free base nicotine and non free base nicotine is how well it get absorbed in the lungs. Free base nicotine tends to absorb well in the lungs, while non free base nicotine absorbs slower in the throat, mouth, etc. The end result is really the same. You get nicotine.
Thank you, that answers a few questions I had been having about the effects I feel with the TW Platinum Ice mixing liquid (labeled as using pure free base nicotine), vs. the standard mixing liquids I have used. It might also explain why I read so many reports from people saying that Xmg of TW PI seems much stronger than Xmg of other brands.
My own personal observations using PI is that while there still is that "something missing", the nicotine effects I get from it seem quite different to me than the standard liquids. In some ways it seems to create for me a more satisfying feeling on the nicotine end of the spectrum. In a couple particular ways in fact, it has been making me wonder if the "something missing", for me, might not be *entirely* based on the missing WTAs - that perhaps also the rate of absorption of the nicotine itself may also be a part of the issue...
What about the reverse? Could you soak the snus to extract the nicotine/alkaloids and use just the liquid?
AHA! This was the answer I was looking for! So, do you think the alkaloids move from the snus into the PV/VG along with everything else?
In that case, why don't you use this method exclusively, instead?
love you and your work, carts mod are GREAT, but you have to know TropicalBob, he uses EVERYTHING, love him too, but asking him why he doesn't use anything exclusively is like asking ......... well i had some good ones but just read some of TB's posts, he doesn't do ANYTHING exclusively.
Love you too TB, MISS YOUR input and real glad you posted this about stuffing one into a an 801, I've quoted you in other posts on that tip
Welcome to the dollar-sign induced placebo effect.
There is not a single reason that my chemist-brain can imagine that PI should be any different efficacy-wise than a high quality non-pharma mix of the same strength. With PI, you should consider yourself to be paying a premium for high purity since it is produced under tightly controlled conditions from only pharma grade materials of documented purity.
I believe that in order to get the nicotine/alkaloids out of the snus packet, you'd need to use a volume of PG that would effectively dilute out the nicotine/alkaloids, and it would still be hard to get them to leave the packet even at that.
The beauty of what TBob suggests is the the amount of PG used to wet the packet is minimal, thus producing a vapable concentration of active ingredients inside the packet.
If this works for somebody and keeps them sane, I say so what if it's tough on attys. An atty is like 7 - 12 dollars. If it lasts for only a week (to be extreme), that's still cheaper than analogs.
While I think that WTA liquid is the way to go, until and unless it becomes available, this seems a decent way to get some of the WTA benefits without having to light up to get them.
Welcome to the dollar-sign induced placebo effect.
There is not a single reason that my chemist-brain can imagine that PI should be any different efficacy-wise than a high quality non-pharma mix of the same strength. With PI, you should consider yourself to be paying a premium for high purity since it is produced under tightly controlled conditions from only pharma grade materials of documented purity.
I completely agree how it is a premium for high purity. This is the original reason I wanted to start using it.
What I did not expect to find, is the entirely different sensation it seems to produce for me.
From the beginning I noticed how it made my mouth slightly tingly in a way the other liquids did not, even when they were of far higher strength (over double). I also seem to perceive the feeling of the nicotine entering much stronger after a few puffs. It really does feel very different to me than regular liquid, and if i had a blind sample of each at the same strength and same flavor, I feel very confident I could pick out the PI very quickly.
Placebo? Well I would be a fool to say that wasn't a possibility, but I am really convinced there is something different here that I feel when using it instead of regular mixing liquid.
Has anyone else tried this and noticed anything similar?
I believe that in order to get the nicotine/alkaloids out of the snus packet, you'd need to use a volume of PG that would effectively dilute out the nicotine/alkaloids, and it would still be hard to get them to leave the packet even at that.
The beauty of what TBob suggests is the the amount of PG used to wet the packet is minimal, thus producing a vapable concentration of active ingredients inside the packet.
If this works for somebody and keeps them sane, I say so what if it's tough on attys. An atty is like 7 - 12 dollars. If it lasts for only a week (to be extreme), that's still cheaper than analogs.
While I think that WTA liquid is the way to go, until and unless it becomes available, this seems a decent way to get some of the WTA benefits without having to light up to get them.
I'm really confused here. I thought the PG or VG *had* to extract the substances we were looking for in order so that it might "drip" down (as a cart would do) onto the atomizer to be vaporized. If it did not extract it in reasonably workable concentration, I don't understand how it could be vaped as it would never reach the atomizer in the first place... ??? (really scratching my head on this one)
About a week ago I barely covered a snus in VG, and let it soak about an hour, gently stirring it a few times inbetween. the VG turned perhaps a yellow tan color, and I tried dripping the (snus soaked) VG alone directly on the atomizer. I'd like to report whether it did truly work or not (the effects), but I'm afraid I made it with what I had immediately on hand (camel snus), and found the taste so terrible that after a couple puffs I quickly decided that was enough and threw it out.
Well, yes, it is an extraction into the PG, but the volume of PG is so small, that concentration of anything that is dissolved in the PG is sufficiently high to get a positive effect. So it's an extraction from the snus into the pg, but it's not an extraction out of the snus packet by the PG. I really don't have a good name for it, but it's ideal for getting the maximum nicotine/alkaloid kick per vape from a snus packet.
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Kevin,
This article hasn't been posted yet;
Do smokers self-administer pure nicotine? A review... [Psychopharmacology (Berl). 2004] - PubMed result
But yes... you summed it up nicely.
Okay this is how you make a crude extraction (Oh yeah-- don't try this at home these instructions are purely for educational purposes)...
1. Go to the dollar store and purchase a box of cheap teabags for $1 (Unless you happen to have empty teabags laying around).
2. Take some loose tobacco- about the same amount as you would find in a cig, and place it in the teabag.. If you don't have some loose tobacco cut open a cig. Cut open the teabag carefully and dump the tea out- place the tobacco in it and fold the top of the bag like you would a paper airplane then fold the tip over and clip it or staple it, to hold the tobacco in.
3. Place the teabag flat in a pyrex or other heat safe measuring cup or bowl (If you have a double boiler use that).
4. Add a high proof spirit (Vodka or Everclear works better) to cover just above the top of the teabag.
5. Fill a small sauce pan with a bit of water... place on low heat (it should not be boiling).
6. Take your teabag /alcohol solution and place in (measuring cup and all- don't dump the contents of the measuring cup in the water) the warm water on the stove... let it sit there under very low heat for at least 4-6 hours. You want to reduce the liquid in your measuring cup but make sure the water does not boil and you have some spirits-mixture in the cup so that it still flows.
7. You should get a brown liquid from this...
Mix the extract with either your VG or PG... and you have a crude e-liquid extract (Which I might add I am not in any way endorsing that you put that in your PV and inhale).
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I need to try this with a diff approach.
Put the snus in the 801 cart, soak the portion with eliquid and top off the cart, put a cart condom on and let them sit over night(min) getting ready for use. One might find you can repeat this 2-3 times with the same portion of snus. Camel SNUS isn't really in the same catagory as Swedish type and I wouldn't base my opinion on it alone.
Using 2 attys and cycling them daily, letting the used one soak over night and the next day in a solvent should help remove some of the gunk extending the atty life. If they both happen to fail, one then the other, you just start a new cycle of 2.
Only dedicating 2 attys for this isn't like cycling 5 where if they all would fail at the same time you are out of attys.
Most people keep more than 2 in stock. A little testing could be done to see the most effective solvent to use. So its just a end of the day swap or 1st thing in the morning.
If the atty is kept wet and only one days use, very little gunk/carbon should be present.
Glad to hear the WTA prelim results are positive. From a personal standpoint, I expexted nothing less.
Put the snus in the 801 cart, soak the portion with eliquid and top off the cart, put a cart condom on and let them sit over night(min) getting ready for use. One might find you can repeat this 2-3 times with the same portion of snus. Camel SNUS isn't really in the same catagory as Swedish type and I wouldn't base my opinion on it alone.
Using 2 attys and cycling them daily, letting the used one soak over night and the next day in a solvent should help remove some of the gunk extending the atty life. If they both happen to fail, one then the other, you just start a new cycle of 2.
Only dedicating 2 attys for this isn't like cycling 5 where if they all would fail at the same time you are out of attys.
Most people keep more than 2 in stock. A little testing could be done to see the most effective solvent to use. So its just a end of the day swap or 1st thing in the morning.
If the atty is kept wet and only one days use, very little gunk/carbon should be present.
Glad to hear the WTA prelim results are positive. From a personal standpoint, I expexted nothing less.
From that abstract I carried on through several of the related articles. There is a quite large body of work "out there" that contends nicotine may not be the true or sole addictive agent in tobacco addiction.
The peanut gallery has just had an eye-opener, thank you IANAN!
OTD...
My favorite was this one....
Neuropsychopharmacology - A Demonstration of Intravenous Nicotine Self-Administration in Humans?
But yes there is quite some controversy with regards to the addictive properties of nicotine in the absence of tobacco....
From my own experiences and the posted reports of experiences here and the growing body of scientific research on the topic... I would tend to agree that Nicotine alone isn't what is hooking us in.
My favorite was this one....
Neuropsychopharmacology - A Demonstration of Intravenous Nicotine Self-Administration in Humans?
But yes there is quite some controversy with regards to the addictive properties of nicotine in the absence of tobacco....
From my own experiences and the posted reports of experiences here and the growing body of scientific research on the topic... I would tend to agree that Nicotine alone isn't what is hooking us in.
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Thanks IANAN,
I'll have to give that a try. I have about 4 pounds of RYO tobacco sitting around doing nothing. Using everclear as the foundation liquid and mixing with VG/PG the result should be harmess to the atty. If not it should be cleanable by soaking the atty in everclear periodically.
Thanks again,
Kevin
I'll have to give that a try. I have about 4 pounds of RYO tobacco sitting around doing nothing. Using everclear as the foundation liquid and mixing with VG/PG the result should be harmess to the atty. If not it should be cleanable by soaking the atty in everclear periodically.
Thanks again,
Kevin
This is great info. The finished procuct, is there any idea what the nic content is? I think that I should be able to get most of the tobacco ingredience that I need I don't want to get too big a nic hit from this. This new theory (new to me) really seems like the logical next step. I think it will be possible to actually lower the nic content and get the chemicals I am missing.
By the way my favorite tobacco supplier has morphed his web site to include some very new and different "pipe" tobaccos. It's a lot cheaper than the RYO cigarette tobacco is since the new tax has been levied. Here's the link:
Trisha's Cafe-Premium Pipe Cut Tobacco-Pipes-Pipe Cleaners-Tampers-Pouches
The old D&R Tobacco with a new makeover.
Kevin
Ad2Covert - So as not to dilute too much by adding VG after, make the solution to dissolve the tobacco, with mostly VG to begin with. For example, 80% VG, 20% alcohol (ethanol).
Use as little liquid as possible.
The result will be in the 2-6mg / ml range, something like that.
Use as little liquid as possible.
The result will be in the 2-6mg / ml range, something like that.
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