So I could turn out to be full of it here.

[bombastinator]

i and several other “olds” do tend upon occasion to rip on people who claim that tenth ohm builds at 90+ watts and massive exotic coils are the best flavor experience.

I decided I should check myself, so this is my attempt.

I went down to my local vape shop and told them my story and that I wanted to vape above 100w and I needed a pair of the biggest most ferocious low ohm exotic coils the could muster.

I produced for the attempt an aromamizer plus (my most modern dual coil DL atty) and an ageis legend.

They delivered.

Props to the folks at VapePros. They have a good selection and they know their stuff. If you’re in Saint Paul MN near the state fair they’re worth a look.

The build was a pair Ni80 fused claptons that were maybe 1.5mm wide and a quarter of that thick. Big mother’s. It read 0.1ohm even when newly installed according to the ohm meter in the legend. I would never let this thing touch a mech mod. There’s a non zero chance it’s actually as low as 0.06 or so.
Limitations of hardware and all that.
NOTE:
Heh. It’s actually reading 0.07 atm. See what I mean? Ohms this low aren’t safe on mech mods. I’m not even totally sure they’re safe on a VV mod. No battery heat though and the thing is firing fine.

For the most extreme comparison I could do, I had a therion squonk and a berserker MTL RDA. Single coil single strand 28g SS, 8(?) wraps reading at 1.0ohm. Running it in TC mode at 430f. The thing vapes best for me in watts mode around 9w

So we give them both a vape. Both at TC 430f in their respective TC mode for each metal.

Clouds? No comparison. I’m getting at least 3x the vapor volume out of the DL vape. Very possibly a LOT more. One could easily cloud up a room with this thing. This is expected. No one is impressed by clouds. The DL vape however IS producing more flavor. Not 3x more. Maybe 10% more. The flavor is also different. More acid. Perhaps fruitier. I do like it a little better.

Now to vape in wattage mode. This is normally kind of a no no with Ni80, and maybe I should have specified SS to the guys at the shop. Let’s see what I can generate though.
In power mode I can get to 110w before it’s burny. Flavor very similar to the 430f attempt though the vape is warmer. Perhaps even more flavor. In direct comparison to the berserker MTL RDA running at 9w it does just flat out beat it. Also, since I’m vaping the same juice in each which is ~12mg/ml I found I needed to grasp the table top as I’m dizzy.
Too much nic (no surprise)
Now at a much more what I generally consider sane 40 watt: the coils are quite slow to heat, and the flavor is now more or less identical or maybe even a bit weaker than the berserker. Cloud reduction maybe 10% the berserker is now producing a warmer vape than the aromamizer.

Result: the kids with the Uber powered vapes may possibly have something. There IS flavor level improvement. At least vs. a MTL atty. they give up a lot to get there though. My aromamizer has a 10 ml capacity and I started with it nearly full. It’s half empty. Batteries the same. The therion/berserker is down maybe 10-15% battery and I haven’t even needed to squonk it yet. If I wanted to vape this all day the way I vape a mtl atty I’d need to carry at least 4 spare 18650s with me. Maybe 6. And there would probably be at absolute minim one possibly as many as three refills of that 10ml tank.

So what about a DL comparison? I’m a bit more limited there. The only other modern RTA ive got is a 22mm pulse single coil that’s armed with 26ga SS on a drone 250c, and it’s running a different flavor of juice. Let’s poke at it anyway though. This coil is a 26/32 Clapton at .6ohm and likes to run about 30w.

Flavor? Different juice, but I’d say pretty similar though of course it’s hard to tell. Clouds? Pretty dang similar. Maybe a 10% volume drop though it’s less dense.
TC mode: 430f again. Drone set to 50w max because it makes the thing heat up a bit faster.
More or less the same deal.

RESULT:
The big boy coil does make more flavor and a heckuva lot more cloud over a imho high grade MTL vape. (This of course may be contested. I did my best with what I got. It may not cut it though)
Against a lower watt higher ohm DL less aggressive system though there was a change in flavor character, the flavor volume per se didn’t seem to change that much.
The cost in each case was lots and lots of battery life and a certain amount of juice. That drone will DL for a good 8-10 hrs on those two batteries and will burn maybe two bottles (16ml) in that time.

Worth it? Maybe. Kind of. That big boy coil sure was tasty at 110w and was clearly boiling more liquid. Enough to make me dizzy even, and I’m a quite large man who’s been vaping daily for a very long time. Ultimate extreme flavor chase? Mmmm...Ok. The difference between ultimate extreme and merely high quality is quite small though.

 

[Shawn Hoefer]

I do not go in for the big guns. I do, however, prefer a cloudier, more flavorful vape. My stock setup is dual SS316L fused claptons (26x2/36). I typically run them in TC mode between 420F and 450F. The wattage is set in the high 70s and low 80s. I get a full day out of a set of batteries (but still carry spares).

As of late, though, this devout builder has become enamored of some of these new disposable tanks. I hate the disposable aspect, but love the durability... Bounce the tank off the floor? No worries. Get angry and throw ir against the wall? That's fine. And, I'm running these mesh coils around 48watts, getting good flavor and vapor.

TL;DR why shoot for the high ground or the low when the middle works just fine.

Why do you say running Ni80 in wattage mode is a no no? My mech builds are almost always Ni80. Same configuration as my TC builds.
----
I also had the same questions, though. About a week ago I grabbed an older RTA and made a set of dual 24 AWG SS316L round wire coils. In that older RTA (a Tobeco Super Tank 25 RTA, if ya gotta know... Quite similar in design to a Griffin 25, really). I found that the reduced coil size (2.5mm) in the reduced chamber (when compared to some of the newer, cavernous build decks currently available) produced as satisfying a vape as the fused claptons in my more modern RTAs. Running the round wire build in one of those larger RTAs, on the other hand, wasn't as nice delivering a decidedly cooler, less flavorful vape even when all of the settings were the same.

TL;DR again... A try design is just as important as coil choice.
----
One final thought... Why didn't you buy some lower nic juice for this experiment. 12 mg on a super Subohm at 100+ watts? Ouch!

 

[Jebbn]

Timely topic.
Recently I started playing around with dual coil builds and all that entails and low ohm drop in coil tanks.
I have moved away from mtl a few months ago so I'm up for experimenting a bit more now that I'm comfortable with dl.
I think fruit flavours are much fuller at higher watts. But i have noticed that the unflavored juice I use has lost the little bit of sweetness I get at lower watts and higher ohms.

 

[bombastinator]

One final thought... Why didn't you buy some lower nic juice for this experiment. 12 mg on a super Subohm at 100+ watts?

Ummm.. because then the juice wouldn’t be the same and I normally vape that aromamizer with the same build I had in the pulse and the thing was already full so I just went with it. I don’t claim to not be exceptionally stupid occasionally. Also don’t take this the wrong way, but while I was willing to throw $4 for a pair of coils at the issue, a 30ml bottle of juice costs like $25 in my state. The experiment just wasn’t worth the expense.
I could have mixed the juice myself I suppose. I didn’t think to though. It was a wild hair and I was going to dinner near the shop, so I threw a couple vapes in my pocket when I left, because hey, it’s something to mess with.

 

[elpresidente]

The "olds" caught my attention for this thread lol. I am prone to flip between MTL setups, mid-range RDL setups and full blast DL.

One final thought... Why didn't you buy some lower nic juice for this experiment. 12 mg on a super Subohm at 100+ watts? Ouch!

With good quality juice 12mg isn't so bad. I only just recently in the past couple months dropped down to 6mg and was blasting 12mg in my freemax mesh sub-ohm tanks and CSMNTs.

 

[greek mule]

How did you manage Ni80 coils to be used at TC mode?
They have 0.000112 TCR

If I misunderstood the text I apologise.

 

[elpresidente]

How did you manage Ni80 coils to be used at TC mode?
They have 0.000112 TCR

If I misunderstood the text I apologise.

Not happening, only Hohmtech memes.

 

[bombastinator]

How did you manage Ni80 coils to be used at TC mode?
They have 0.000112 TCR

If I misunderstood the text I apologise.

Noooo.... Ni80 is nickel, right? Not nichrome? Derp. No wonder I liked them better in wattage mode. Lol.
Ok. 2 big stupids in one post. I never bothered with TC until replay came out. It was always too complicated and getting a reasonably good vape out of it seemed near impossible. Making standard TC work well for me is like a this week thing for me. As a result my knowledge of old style pre SS TC wire is largely academic. And apparently at least partly wrong.

 

[elpresidente]

Noooo.... Ni80 is nickel, right? Not nichrome? Derp. No wonder I liked them better in wattage mode. Lol.
Ok. 2 big stupids in one post. I never bothered with TC until replay came out. It was always too complicated and getting a reasonably good vape out of it seemed near impossible. Making standard TC work well for me is like a this week thing for me. As a result my knowledge of old style pre SS TC wire is largely academic. And apparently at least partly wrong.

Damn, here I was hoping you had a Flagship Killer chip device that actually worked.

 

[Vapedog]

Its amazing what wattage, coils etc can make a vape taste like. I use drop in coils but vary what I use depending on the juice. 75 watts with a Plex rocks my fruit vapes. Lower wattage on my Sense, 55 do it for chocolates and custards. High with Licorice kills it, not great in the Plex, very muted. But great in a Crios at 42 watt. I use different tank's/coils/wattage for my different mixes to get the best flavour out of them. If I used just 1 tank and wattage Id never know how good some of them actually tasted and would write many off as not a great vape. I use a T2, Plex, Crios, Sense and Revvo. And which I use depends upon the juice I plan to vape. Some flavours bang out high wattage and others get muted by it. Some are at their best at lower wattage. Im a DTL vaper.

 

[bombastinator]

Damn, here I was hoping you had a Flagship Killer chip device that actually worked.

I kind of did. The DNA 250c is the flagshippiest most killer chip available at the moment. It claims to be able to TC kanthal. I don’t believe it but it claims it.

UPDATE: ...or maybe it doesn’t. There is a setting specifically for kanthal, but there’s no temperature attached to it. It may be just a special kanthal specific profile. Or something. Still smells of cow pasture to me.

 

[ScottP]

The DL vape however IS producing more flavor. Not 3x more. Maybe 10% more.

So the real question is, is it worth, double the materials, double the build time, double the juice consumption, and half the battery life for 10% more flavor? Especially if you DIY, so you can just add more flavor directly to the juice.

 

[sonicbomb]

Props to the bomb for putting it to the test, first hand experience is hard to beat.
If you vape primarily for smoking cessation, then factors like juice and battery consumption are important factors. I like a warm plume, but do I think about the increase in the harm factors of vaping that are increased by huge hot clouds.

 

[Jebbn]

So the real question is, is it worth, double the materials, double the build time, double the juice consumption, and half the battery life for 10% more flavor? Especially if you DIY, so you can just add more flavor directly to the juice.

You are asking this question on an online forum where many members have spent many hours and dollars researching and buying many attys trying to nail the perfect flavour. On a forum where members can tell the difference in taste between brands of cotton, types of metal for coils, the taste difference between 60% vg and 70%vg and the difference between palm and soy VG. Where 5% increase in watts is the difference between a meh tasting juice and a on point juice and where there are people who can taste difference in nicotine from different suppliers.
10%? Would they putz around with an extra coil or would they just throw money at the next new best thing?
Interesting question @ScottP. Nice.

 

[ScottP]

You are asking this question on an online forum where many members have spent many hours and dollars researching and buying many attys trying to nail the perfect flavour. On a forum where members can tell the difference in taste between brands of cotton, types of metal for coils, the taste difference between 60% vg and 70%vg and the difference between palm and soy VG. Where 5% increase in watts is the difference between a meh tasting juice and a on point juice and where there are people who can taste difference in nicotine from different suppliers.
10%? Would they putz around with an extra coil or would they just throw money at the next new best thing?
Interesting question @ScottP. Nice.

Seriously funny.

For me though, if I need 5% more flavor, I just add 5% more flavor to my DIY juice. It's a lot faster, easier, and cheaper than buying every new device that comes down the pipe then spending tons of material and time trying to get it just right.

I can see some that will min max their stuff if they are using commercial juices though.

 

[Katya]

Seriously funny.

Indeed.

Does All Wine Taste the Same?

'Another test that Brochet conducted was even more damning. He took a middling Bordeaux and served it in two different bottles. One bottle bore the label of a fancy grand cru, the other of an ordinary vin de table. Although they were being served the exact same wine, the experts gave the bottles nearly opposite descriptions. The grand cru was summarized as being “agreeable,” “woody,” “complex,” “balanced,” and “rounded,” while the most popular adjectives for the vin de table included “weak,” “short,” “light,” “flat,” and “faulty.” '



As you were.

 

[Katya]

So the real question is, is it worth, double the materials, double the build time, double the juice consumption, and half the battery life for 10% more flavor?

And to quadruple octuple the amount of junk inhaled directly into your lungs.

 

[Opinionated]

Props to the bomb for putting it to the test, first hand experience is hard to beat.
If you vape primarily for smoking cessation, then factors like juice and battery consumption are important factors. I like a warm plume, but do I think about the increase in the harm factors of vaping that are increased by huge hot clouds.

My son actually vapes at 100 watts and likes it

Some flavors do better at higher wattages, you can get some of the subtleties that aren't apparent at lower watts. This is why when we review a juice it's important to tell others what build you used and at how many watts you vaped because someone might not have the same experience at a different build and watts..

You can get a cool vape at 100 watts, you just need the metal mass. These coils here run nicely for my son at 100 watts, but they are so large they wont fit in the majority (99.9%) of RTA's.

But the problem, the huge elephant is just that - the massive juice consumption. My son vapes anywhere from 30-50 ml of ejuice per day.

That's a massive consumption level and I'm fairly certain your just erasing many of the health benefits to vaping.

Even my son agrees that it's likely far less beneficial at this level, and I've finally talked him into low watts, low consumption, high nic, some of the time to decrease his overall consumption..

but yeah, when your consuming in a day what a low wattage vaper, vapes in a month, it's far less beneficial than low consumption... it just makes sense that it would be.

 

[sonicbomb]

For me though, if I need 5% more flavor, I just add 5% more flavor to my DIY juice.

Bingo

 

[DeloresRose]

My question is how hot is that vapor? I always kind of feel like a big sissy because the highest I’ve gone is like 45-50 watts, and that’s not common. I’m usually at 30, even though I know my build would be okay at twice that. But my lungs just can’t handle the heat.

Is that a thing one gets accustomed to with practice? Or are some just not as sensitive as I am?