So now you can even get killed for vaping?
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To some extent, civilians have a right to be stupid since that's why we have police. Maybe we should avoid some of the drama of "suicide by cop" and have regular firing squads.
The point was to not blame with us vs them mentality. When someone calls for help, cops should be on the same side. The vast majority of them are. Yet there is a problem when 1 to 2 unarmed people are killed per day and 80% of those happen to be black. That's not ignorable when it's happening in diverse states.
Is it the vapers fault if they never thought about what their device might look like to police? I'm not around guns and never think about them, except avoiding them.
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The point was to not blame with us vs them mentality. When someone calls for help, cops should be on the same side. The vast majority of them are. Yet there is a problem when 1 to 2 unarmed people are killed per day and 80% of those happen to be black. That's not ignorable when it's happening in diverse states.
Is it the vapers fault if they never thought about what their device might look like to police? I'm not around guns and never think about them, except avoiding them.
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Wow, it doesn't matter what it is, it matters what it looks like! Can't you get that? If it looks like a weapon, it will be responded as such? Take a bat and charge at cops with guns drawn, what do you think will happen? Take a small piece of pipe and point it at cops with guns drawn, what do you think will happen?
I can't fix stupid and if you are too stupid to figure out this out come, I can't help you. Every action this person took created the end he received, period!
Go to a bar, have twelve Jack and Cokes, try to drive home, what's going to happen? Who's at fault? What happens when you wreck? What happens when you don't comply with the officers demands?
You are putting the blame on the wrong foot, regardless, this person was in the wrong, regardless this person chose not to comply with instructions given to them at GUN POINT! Yeah, I can't fix stupid! You go ahead and not comply with cops holding you at gun point, bet you can't tell me how it works out!
Don't be an idiot, you won't get shot!
I can't fix stupid and if you are too stupid to figure out this out come, I can't help you. Every action this person took created the end he received, period!
Go to a bar, have twelve Jack and Cokes, try to drive home, what's going to happen? Who's at fault? What happens when you wreck? What happens when you don't comply with the officers demands?
You are putting the blame on the wrong foot, regardless, this person was in the wrong, regardless this person chose not to comply with instructions given to them at GUN POINT! Yeah, I can't fix stupid! You go ahead and not comply with cops holding you at gun point, bet you can't tell me how it works out!
Don't be an idiot, you won't get shot!
"Pigs in a blanket. Fry 'em like bacon.".......Think I'd be nervous too if a segment of our population is out to shoot me.......even when I'm having lunch with a fellow officer in my patrol car. 
Well, the guy didn't shoot at anyone. And police officers aren't supposed to kill people - they are supposed to arrest them if that's the case. So, frankly, there's nothing normal about these kinds of situations. It's just the sign of a deranged society that looks much like a movie. Just my opinion really.
Wrong! The raw numbers don't back this up, this "fact" is only true if you cook the numbers to adjust for population percentage by race.
I was warned almost 4 years ago by a retired police officer, that the end of my ProVari, at a glance, looked much like a "one shooter".
He was walking by my desk at work as I raised it to vape.
He told me to be careful in any situation where I might be around a police officer. He said if I was in a car, pulled over, *do not* raise it to take a vape.
He was walking by my desk at work as I raised it to vape.
He told me to be careful in any situation where I might be around a police officer. He said if I was in a car, pulled over, *do not* raise it to take a vape.
So you are saying the police need to wait to be shot before responding? Of course Police aren't supposed to kill people do you think they wake up in the morning with the intention to? It's very easy to Monday morning quarterback when it's not your life in danger.Also keep in mind our society in history has freed billions of people all over the world from oppression and injustice.While we are not perfect I take offense to you categorizing our society as deranged.Our country spends a great deal of money,and sacrifices its sons and daughters to keep you free and allow you to voice your opinion.
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In all fairness, it's hard for me to imagine how the news coming out of the US looks to those from other countries where violent crime rates are much lower.
Look at the contrast in the news that's reported here, one can hear totally different slants on the news story just by switching channels.
Look at the contrast in the news that's reported here, one can hear totally different slants on the news story just by switching channels.
Well, LoriP, most European countries are not only a lot smaller in area and population, but have been homogenous until fairly recently. They are beginning to have problems with "immigrants" now. Also, the generation that lived through the devastation of WWII and the rebuilding aftermath are almost gone as well as the Communist's strict control of a large part of the continent. Get too many young and new people without work can be a big problem for any nation. Including ours which is not homogenous by any stretch. We do have the freedom to protect ourselves which many countries do not give.
So true, and well said.Well, LoriP, most European countries are not only a lot smaller in area and population, but have been homogenous until fairly recently. They are beginning to have problems with "immigrants" now. Also, the generation that lived through the devastation of WWII and the rebuilding aftermath are almost gone as well as the Communist's strict control of a large part of the continent. Get too many young and new people without work can be a big problem for any nation. Including ours which is not homogenous by any stretch. We do have the freedom to protect ourselves which many countries do not give.
You know, you just can't argue with nationalists, the same that you can't argue with religious people, partisans etc. Therefore, I don't want to digress, not even remotely, about the US or any other country in the world. But, you know, I'm an educated person who knows at least a little bit about things.
I remember the pre-9/11 US when it actually was a really nice place... I also remember pre-9/11 Europe and it was nicer but maybe the US was nicer back then.
I take offence in you thinking you're doing whatever you think you're doing to keep Europe free when I'm very clearly aware it's merely business as usual.
Of course it is. The world is a "business as usual" place. Well, it basically is, at least. Capitalism and communism are the most perfect examples of "business as usual".
So, what exactly should I thank you for?
What I see is you have a serious problem with the police shooting down people (black people actually, but that may just be a sign that there's a social problem which hasn't been fully solved yet), namely people "armed" with an ecig. I know he was asking for trouble. But really, getting killed on the spot? That's something I don't easily see in the rest of the civilized world. I could be wrong though...
Having said all that, let's not bring this kind of debate into ECF.
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EDIT: I think I'd also like to make it clear that I always stood up for the US in many situations when nobody else would. Don't be offended - that's how it is, most people think that way. But you mustn't think it's me.
I also don't think the officers wake up in the morning thinking about who they're going to murder. You'd have to be an idiot to think something like that.
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Unfortunately, thinking otherwise has become politically incorrect and offensive in far too many minds.
Did you see that part that he had actually pointed it at the police, as if it were a weapon, that he had taken a "shooters" position with it?You know, you just can't argue with nationalists, the same that you can't argue with religious people, partisans etc. Therefore, I don't want to digress, not even remotely, about the US or any other country in the world. But, you know, I'm an educated person who knows at least a little bit about things.
I remember the pre-9/11 US when it actually was a really nice place... I also remember pre-9/11 Europe and it was nicer but maybe the US was nicer back then.
I take offence in you thinking you're doing whatever you think you're doing to keep Europe free when I'm very clearly aware it's merely business as usual.
Of course it is. The world is a "business as usual" place. Well, it basically is, at least. Capitalism and communism are the most perfect examples of "business as usual".
So, what exactly should I thank you for?
What I see is you have a serious problem with the police shooting down people (black people actually, but that may just be a sign that there's a social problem which hasn't been fully solved yet), namely people "armed" with an ecig. I know he was asking for trouble. But really, getting killed on the spot? That's something I don't easily see in the rest of the civilized world. I could be wrong though...
Having said all that, let's not bring this kind of debate into ECF.
I was taken aback at first when this news story came out until they said he'd pointed it at them, and had taken that position.
I agree, way more issues than can be resolved here on ECF, and we're not in the proper section of the forum for heated debates.
ETA: I "like" your posts because I respect your right to your opinion, it doesn't necessarily mean that I entirely agree with all of the content.
Sure, Lori. All I'm saying is he wasn't actually pointing a gun. He didn't actually fire any gun. And perhaps being trigger-happy is taking things too far.
I respect law enforcement officers. But I think they have to be worthy of that respect.
Do they at least learn to defend themselves without eliminating people? One would hope so. It's probably not a job for everyone.
I respect law enforcement officers. But I think they have to be worthy of that respect.
Do they at least learn to defend themselves without eliminating people? One would hope so. It's probably not a job for everyone.
I don't entirely disagree, but I don't personally have a good answer for that.
I wish there were universal, non-lethal methods that would ensure the safety of the police officers, but they're often "iffy" at best, and had this person been armed, and shot, well...the truth is, the police officers don't have the luxury of time to make a decision in that situation, so it's just really best not to point anything at them, and take a shooters stance.
There has been debate about non-lethal methods the police could possibly use in some situations.
I don't know about your country, but here, if you point a metal object at a police officer, after you have failed to comply with their instructions, after they were called to the disturbance by the family member, sister I believe, of the person who was shot...you're probably going to get shot.
I can't blame the officer in this situation.
You just can't disobey their simple instructions, point a metal object at them, assume a shooter's stance, and think it's going to play well for you.
I think that people have to be responsible for their own actions, and decisions, good or bad.
I think this gentleman made an extremely poor decision, and I just can't see blame for this one being put onto the police officer.
Failure to comply is cited over, and over, and over again in many of these tragic situations.
I say tragic, because it is tragic anytime someone has to die in that manner, but so many times simple compliance in the moment of confrontation would have changed the outcome drastically in many, if not most of these situations where people are being shot.
I just saw your edits here.You know, you just can't argue with nationalists, the same that you can't argue with religious people, partisans etc. Therefore, I don't want to digress, not even remotely, about the US or any other country in the world. But, you know, I'm an educated person who knows at least a little bit about things.
I remember the pre-9/11 US when it actually was a really nice place... I also remember pre-9/11 Europe and it was nicer but maybe the US was nicer back then.
I take offence in you thinking you're doing whatever you think you're doing to keep Europe free when I'm very clearly aware it's merely business as usual.
Of course it is. The world is a "business as usual" place. Well, it basically is, at least. Capitalism and communism are the most perfect examples of "business as usual".
So, what exactly should I thank you for?
What I see is you have a serious problem with the police shooting down people (black people actually, but that may just be a sign that there's a social problem which hasn't been fully solved yet), namely people "armed" with an ecig. I know he was asking for trouble. But really, getting killed on the spot? That's something I don't easily see in the rest of the civilized world. I could be wrong though...
Having said all that, let's not bring this kind of debate into ECF.
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EDIT: I think I'd also like to make it clear that I always stood up for the US in many situations when nobody else would. Don't be offended - that's how it is, most people think that way. But you mustn't think it's me.
I also don't think the officers wake up in the morning thinking about who they're going to murder. You'd have to be an idiot to think something like that.
Something else that I feel is worth noting is the bias in our (US) media reporting.
Honestly, it's become so slanted, so many different agendas, that's it's often little more than opinion based reporting.
You sometimes really have to dig for *all* of the facts of any particular news story, and even then you're not entirely sure you have the *whole* story.
Too many *non-verified* reports make it across the air waves, and it's just completely irresponsible.
The 24/7/365 endless news cycle just doesn't help anything.
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