Someone tell me how/why E-cigarettes are healthier than traditional Cigarettes

[Brewdawg1181]

Maybe this one

Thanks, mattiem. This isn't it, but certainly interesting. Very persuasive and well presented info, but kind of an odd site- no real "about us" info, and this statement. What do you know about them? Who's the publisher, author, source of this? Do you know?

 

[Brewdawg1181]

Oops - found it. Just an odd website structure. Good stuff.

 

[ozm8ey]

Because it vapour instead of smoke and doesn't have the 1000's of dangerous chemicals. Once you become a vapour after a while you will feel the health benefits. Its basically like been in the cold and breathing in flavoured fog in my opinion

 

[mattiem]

Oops - found it. Just an odd website structure. Good stuff.

I am thinking it was originally posted here on this forum but couldn't swear to it. I am thinking it was written by rolygate. I am thinking he is one of the original owners of this forum. Someone Please correct me if I am wrong about that.

 

[Brewdawg1181]

I am thinking it was originally posted here on this forum but couldn't swear to it. I am thinking it was written by rolygate. I am thinking he is one of the original owners of this forum. Someone Please correct me if I am wrong about that.

Yep - don't know about owner, but was forum manager. It's in the About Us:
This website is owned and operated by Chris Price, ex-ECCA UK Secretary and ECF Forum Manager.

 

[englishmick]

The first reference of a study about "nicotine addiction" I found in the article you linked was talking about cigarette addition, not nicotine addiction. I did not bother to check the rest, as I asked for specific links to REAL evidence, not some fake evidence about cigarettes to "prove" nicotine by itself (i.e. without tobacco) is addictive, as we all already know cigarettes are addictive, but you were talking about nicotine instead so please try better next time.

I guess to prove it either way, in a scientific sense, you would either need to identify a population that used nicotine outside of tobacco regularly over a longish period, or feed it to volunteers. I suspect the latter would be hard to get approved.

There are plenty of people using nicotine. Apart from vapers there are folks who take other tobacco replacement products like lozenges and patches, but those groups are almost all ex-smokers so you couldn't really prove anything from looking at them.

I get the impression that people who vape but have never smoked are few in number and don't vape for very long, though I could be wrong about that. And I never heard of any never-smokers using patches.

The only instance I've ever heard that could be helpful was some experiments I read about that studied the effect of nicotine in delaying Alzheimer's. Supposedly no problems of dependence were found there, but they weren't long term studies.

I have to guess that there really isn't any solid science on the subject. Unless Mr Gottlieb has some secret results showing that Juuling teenagers are unable to quit. And if he had that we would know about it for sure.

 

[Brewdawg1181]

I guess to prove it either way, in a scientific sense, you would either need to identify a population that used nicotine outside of tobacco regularly over a longish period, or feed it to volunteers. I suspect the latter would be hard to get approved.

There are plenty of people using nicotine. Apart from vapers there are folks who take other tobacco replacement products like lozenges and patches, but those groups are almost all ex-smokers so you couldn't really prove anything from looking at them.

I get the impression that people who vape but have never smoked are few in number and don't vape for very long, though I could be wrong about that. And I never heard of any never-smokers using patches.

The only instance I've ever heard that could be helpful was some experiments I read about that studied the effect of nicotine in delaying Alzheimer's. Supposedly no problems of dependence were found there, but they weren't long term studies.

I have to guess that there really isn't any solid science on the subject. Unless Mr Gottlieb has some secret results showing that Juuling teenagers are unable to quit. And if he had that we would know about it for sure.

Yes - you're pretty much saying what's said in the link MattieM posted above. All true, that.

 

[englishmick]

I am thinking it was originally posted here on this forum but couldn't swear to it. I am thinking it was written by rolygate. I am thinking he is one of the original owners of this forum. Someone Please correct me if I am wrong about that.

At the bottom of the article it said in small text "This article was previously published on ECF".

It must have stuck in my mind. What I said a few posts back mostly came from that one.

 

[mattiem]

At the bottom of the article it said in small text "This article was previously published on ECF".

It must have stuck in my mind. What I said a few posts back mostly came from that one.

Well wadda ya know, my memory isn't as bad as I thought it was

 

[Baditude]

I am thinking it was originally posted here on this forum but couldn't swear to it. I am thinking it was written by rolygate. I am thinking he is one of the original owners of this forum. Someone Please correct me if I am wrong about that.

Yep - don't know about owner, but was forum manager. It's in the About Us:
This website is owned and operated by Chris Price, ex-ECCA UK Secretary and ECF Forum Manager.

@rolygate is currently listed as a Forum Manager. He is the author of many of ECF's reference materials in the The ECF Library. Before there was Battery Mooch, he was THE authority on batteries.
Rechargeable Batteries

 

[Tim Wiseman]

All we ever do around here is quote the RCP consensus paper that vaping is 95% safer than smoking. There is not a single "real" scientific study with that specific finding. So consensus documents are good when they support one's personal belief, but wrong when they don't.

No one is bending someone's arm to believe, or not believe, nicotine is addictive. But it does become a little confusing why smokers then seem to need nicotine in their vape juice to eliminate cigarette cravings. I am unfamiliar with anyone stopping smoking with 0 mg juice. Not saying its never happened, but I've never seen of heard of it. Then again, not 100% of people who try vaping are successful at stopping smoking either.

I fully agree with you but you're wasting your breath last time i brought up the fact that nicotine was a drug and addictive the thread ended with a cowardly insult session by three members hiding from behind computer screens, pathetic little *********'s

 

[mattiem]

@rolygate is currently listed as a Forum Manager. He is the author of many of ECF's reference materials in the The ECF Library. Before there was Battery Mooch, he was THE authority on batteries.
Rechargeable Batteries

Thank you @Baditude I knew he was somewhere up there but wasn't absolutely sure what his role is/was. I've not seen him around as often as he used to be but I may not be hanging out where he is, if he is.

 

[Baditude]

I've not seen him around as often as he used to be but I may not be hanging out where he is, if he is.

His profile page says he hasn't been on ECF since Feb 2017. I'm friends with him on Face Book but he doesn't post there either.

 

[mattiem]

His profile page says he hasn't been on ECF since Feb 2017. I'm friends with him on Face Book but he doesn't post there either.

Maybe he got tired of fighting what at times feels like a losing battle or life just got in the way and left him little time to spend here. I do hope what ever the case, life is treating him well.

 

[Baditude]

Maybe he got tired of fighting what at times feels like a losing battle or life just got in the way and left him little time to spend here. I do hope what ever the case, life is treating him well.

I know he felt that we were fighting a losing battle with future govenment regulations and BT/BP lobbyists. He saw the writing on the wall years before the rest of us did.

 

[englishmick]

Yes - you're pretty much saying what's said in the link MattieM posted above. All true, that.

That was an interesting window into how opinions get formed. I'm sure I read that when it was originally posted on ECF and absorbed what it said.

 

[dripster]

All we ever do around here is quote the RCP consensus paper that vaping is 95% safer than smoking. There is not a single "real" scientific study with that specific finding. So consensus documents are good when they support one's personal belief, but wrong when they don't.

No one is bending someone's arm to believe, or not believe, nicotine is addictive. But it does become a little confusing why smokers then seem to need nicotine in their vape juice to eliminate cigarette cravings. I am unfamiliar with anyone stopping smoking with 0 mg juice. Not saying its never happened, but I've never seen of heard of it. Then again, not 100% of people who try vaping are successful at stopping smoking either.

Science isn't about black and white. Rather, it is about reducing that which is unknown or not yet fully understood, and to get a handle on whether our conclusions are still correct.

The evidence to support the claim that vaping is at least 95% less harmful is overwhelming because Royal College of Physicians did a very thorough job at examining every aspect so the remaining 5% already takes properly into account the unknown factors including the potential risk from long-term inhalation of flavorings. The evidence to support the claim that nicotine by itself is addictive is best described as some rats in a lab with complex stimuli showing a tendency to be in one location more than another under complex circumstances, but that's about it, so credit where credit is due, and, by persistently conflating nicotine with tobacco, the assertion that nicotine by itself is addictive doesn't gain any real plausibility of any kind whatsoever; it's still nothing more than an assertion that is lacking every form of serious evidence despite nicotine is a substance that's already been studied to the extreme enough to maybe start to justify studying the addictiveness of spreading false rumor.

 

[dripster]

I'm not sure that you two are really in total disagreement, but arguing different points?

I wish I'd saved the link, but a few weeks ago I was researching the benefits of nicotine. I came across a study that pointed out that nicotine without the tobacco combustion delivery was far less addictive. In fact, they pointed to studies that showed it was difficult to get rats addicted to nicotine alone. It also had data comparing tobacco addiction to that of nicotine patches and other delivery systems.

I'm not much for saving and proving my points, but I'll have to find that one again, as it was info that I'd never come across before. I found it interesting, and it helps explain a lot to me about tobacco addiction.

The point I'm arguing is that I asked for links to reliable evidence to support the claim that there exists such a thing as "nicotine addiction". What I got instead was more of the same old ersatz-evidence that references only tobacco addiction, just like I had expected exactly BECAUSE the spreading of false rumor is plenty obvious.

 

[dripster]

As you can imagine, "sleeper" is one of the better things I have been called. "Scholar" was never one of those names given me. I have had a lot of experience with the DSM and with those who use it on a daily basis, I developed a healthy skepticism about the DSM and its devotees.

This all makes me wonder. Do you own a copy of Carl Sagan's Baloney Detection Kit?
Does Truth Matter? Science, Pseudoscience, and Civilization - CSI

 

[dripster]

I guess to prove it either way, in a scientific sense, you would either need to identify a population that used nicotine outside of tobacco regularly over a longish period, or feed it to volunteers. I suspect the latter would be hard to get approved.

There are plenty of people using nicotine. Apart from vapers there are folks who take other tobacco replacement products like lozenges and patches, but those groups are almost all ex-smokers so you couldn't really prove anything from looking at them.

I get the impression that people who vape but have never smoked are few in number and don't vape for very long, though I could be wrong about that. And I never heard of any never-smokers using patches.

The only instance I've ever heard that could be helpful was some experiments I read about that studied the effect of nicotine in delaying Alzheimer's. Supposedly no problems of dependence were found there, but they weren't long term studies.

I have to guess that there really isn't any solid science on the subject. Unless Mr Gottlieb has some secret results showing that Juuling teenagers are unable to quit. And if he had that we would know about it for sure.

This article IMO explains the full story behind "nicotine outside of tobacco".
http://thr4life.org/index.php/2017/05/23/nicotine-not-addictive