Someone tell me how/why E-cigarettes are healthier than traditional Cigarettes
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You're certainly welcome here, unless you continue this garbage. But here (and in life), quit playing people for your advantage. I'm glad you got what you wanted. And really - quit kidding yourself about the ends justifying the means. You're really only diminishing your own worth. And people really can see through it.
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I've been experimenting with not inhaling (much) at all and vaping like it was a cigar. Didn't think it would work but it actually works great. Whether that's safer or not I don't know but it sure feels better for flavour because you're holding it in your mouth for longer...
I know someone posted several pdf documents for you to review. You might also find this to be useful as a source you can cite
E-cigarettes - Science and Technology Committee - House of Commons
The topic of harm reduction in comparison to abstinence is a difficult sell, particularly in the US where any harm, regardless of relative risk, sets people off. Maybe it's a puritancal thing, like you should be able to stop using an addictive substance through sheer will, and if you can't you must be too weak to fight temptation.
We've seen this with Prohibition with alcohol which didn't work out too well, and now with opiate substance abuse where an addict should just buck up and stop using drugs. It's an all or none rigid thought process.
As to nicotine addiction, it's just like any other substance of abuse. Plenty is people may experiment with it, but only a small number go on to abuse a substance or develop classical addictive behaviors. Tobacco abuse disorder is obviously more than just the presence of nicotine alone. There is the habitual and ritualistic aspects that become difficult to separate out. That's probably why vaping is a bit easier for folks to help them stop smoking as it mimics ingrained behaviors associated with smoking that other NRT and drug related smoking cessation aids fall short on.
As far as I'm concerned, whatever product, treatment, or other intervention gets someone to stop smoking is fine with me. Vaping doesn't work 100% of the time and I encourage anyone who find vaping insufficient to stop smoking with to explore any and all other methods out there.
E-cigarettes - Science and Technology Committee - House of Commons
The topic of harm reduction in comparison to abstinence is a difficult sell, particularly in the US where any harm, regardless of relative risk, sets people off. Maybe it's a puritancal thing, like you should be able to stop using an addictive substance through sheer will, and if you can't you must be too weak to fight temptation.
We've seen this with Prohibition with alcohol which didn't work out too well, and now with opiate substance abuse where an addict should just buck up and stop using drugs. It's an all or none rigid thought process.
As to nicotine addiction, it's just like any other substance of abuse. Plenty is people may experiment with it, but only a small number go on to abuse a substance or develop classical addictive behaviors. Tobacco abuse disorder is obviously more than just the presence of nicotine alone. There is the habitual and ritualistic aspects that become difficult to separate out. That's probably why vaping is a bit easier for folks to help them stop smoking as it mimics ingrained behaviors associated with smoking that other NRT and drug related smoking cessation aids fall short on.
As far as I'm concerned, whatever product, treatment, or other intervention gets someone to stop smoking is fine with me. Vaping doesn't work 100% of the time and I encourage anyone who find vaping insufficient to stop smoking with to explore any and all other methods out there.
You wouldn't happen to have links to real scientific evidence in support of what you claim, would you?
You wouldn't happen to have links to real scientific evidence in support of what you claim, would you?
DSM-5 Criteria for Substance Use Disorders: Recommendations and Rationale
Scroll on down to nicotine. Knock yourself out. They have additional links to some other real scientific evidence in there too.
Knew that was coming.
The first reference of a study about "nicotine addiction" I found in the article you linked was talking about cigarette addiction, not nicotine addiction. I did not bother to check the rest, as I asked for specific links to REAL evidence, not some fake evidence about cigarettes to "prove" nicotine by itself (i.e. without tobacco) is addictive, as we all already know cigarettes are addictive, but you were talking about nicotine instead so please try better next time.
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My opinion of the DSM is that it is the epitome of settled science or of scientific consensus. I see it as a political and economic document. It enshrines the politically correct and expands the diagnostic criteria to maximize insurance reimbursement. It seems to grow and grow, a look at DSM-1 and DSM-5 can be instructive. It is, in large part, reflective of changing societal norms as opposed to an objective examination of behaviors.
I don't know better than the entire medical community but I have learned to look at the DSM with a skeptical eye rather than unqualified acceptance of what it contains. That is to say, because it is written in the DSM doesn't necessarily make it true. And I have not gone so far over the edge as to consider the contents to be automatically false. It is the collective opinion of degreed people but it should be critically examined.
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And that is the thing.....Even folks that vape won't or can't believe that nicotine by itself isn't the big bad addictive monster we have been led to believe it is.
I truly do believe that someone that has never smoked and starts vaping today with nicotine will not have to go through what we smokers went through/are going through to quit. I truly do believe that it wasn't the nicotine alone that got us hooked. It was the nicotine mixed with 1000's of other chemical that got us hooked so deeply.
There will be some that might have a harder time than others because of a very addictive personality. Some folks can get addicted to things that others could never be.
If it was just the nicotine, everyone that gives vaping a chance would be able to make the switch immediately.
I believe if nicotine was separated from being delivered through smoking there would be little to no dependence on nicotine. No more so than ones dependence on caffeine. We that smoked are different than those that have never smoked. I used to say and think I needed my nicotine fix when in fact it wasn't really just the nicotine I was getting. It was a boiling cauldron of chemicals that ended up altering my brain. Someone that never smokes but does take up vaping even with nicotine will not have had their brain rewired by all those chemical.
And to the OP: I just passed my 7th smoke free anniversary after smoking for 45+ years. I can honestly say I feel much better than I did 7 years ago. No more morning cough. No more colds or the flu. My lungs are as clear as someone that has never smoked. I am just one of the 1000's of folks that can say the same thing. Folks that are losing tons of money try their best to demonize vaping but it is all about lost revenues.
As always just my humble opinion and belief.
All we ever do around here is quote the RCP consensus paper that vaping is 95% safer than smoking. There is not a single "real" scientific study with that specific finding. So consensus documents are good when they support one's personal belief, but wrong when they don't.
No one is bending someone's arm to believe, or not believe, nicotine is addictive. But it does become a little confusing why smokers then seem to need nicotine in their vape juice to eliminate cigarette cravings. I am unfamiliar with anyone stopping smoking with 0 mg juice. Not saying its never happened, but I've never seen of heard of it. Then again, not 100% of people who try vaping are successful at stopping smoking either.
No one is bending someone's arm to believe, or not believe, nicotine is addictive. But it does become a little confusing why smokers then seem to need nicotine in their vape juice to eliminate cigarette cravings. I am unfamiliar with anyone stopping smoking with 0 mg juice. Not saying its never happened, but I've never seen of heard of it. Then again, not 100% of people who try vaping are successful at stopping smoking either.
I'm not sure that you two are really in total disagreement, but arguing different points?
I wish I'd saved the link, but a few weeks ago I was researching the benefits of nicotine. I came across a study that pointed out that nicotine without the tobacco combustion delivery was far less addictive. In fact, they pointed to studies that showed it was difficult to get rats addicted to nicotine alone. It also had data comparing tobacco addiction to that of nicotine patches and other delivery systems.
I'm not much for saving and proving my points, but I'll have to find that one again, as it was info that I'd never come across before. I found it interesting, and it helps explain a lot to me about tobacco addiction.
but this post is amazing. I felt like I had you pretty well figured out over the years. A laid back country dude with a simple, to the point approach on life. Then you drop this post .... You're what we call a sleeper . 
As you can imagine, "sleeper" is one of the better things I have been called. "Scholar" was never one of those names given me. I have had a lot of experience with the DSM and with those who use it on a daily basis, I developed a healthy skepticism about the DSM and its devotees.
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