Statement from Totally Wicked

[fuzzione]

Ok. But how do you know the allegations have no substance? What evidence do you have? Or is it intuition, a gut feeling?

With respect, that's not the point. Whether such allegations were legitimate or otherwise, TW chose the wrong battleground. One where many innocents were hurt. The references to 'hive' and such demonstrates not only a disregard for those that may suffer yet had nothing to do with the situation, but in my view, an utter contempt. I.e., 'let anyone associated with UKV bear my wrath.'

With the vast resources available to Mr. Cropper he had other options available to bring to the forefront any accusations of ECITA conflicts. Similarly, any unfounded criticism against his company may have been countered with continued reasonable rebuttal on the forums. Conceivably, this may have also represented an opportunity for TW to demonstrate to even the TW-haters on UKV that his company was being unfairly victimized and attacked and possibly even gained more supporters. All that would take is intelligent and effective argument. Instead he chose to press the 'nuke all' button.

 

[asha23]

Great post. Appreciate it. But I guess, and I mean this politely, it is the difference between you and I. My fingers were buzzing on the keyboard ready with a reply for TW when UKV was attacked. But I held off. You can't argue with a madman. Gets you nowhere. How different things would've been if others had done the same..

I completely agree with you. And for my part I perhaps did post the odd insult towards JC at the beginning. Although I don't think I did... I did express some concern for his mental state, I believe. Which may have been construed as an insult I guess. I try and be even-handed in these sorts of things.

For the record, I don't like bullies personally and will always stand up to them. I will also say the same things I post to someone's face too. I will never hide behind the internet.

 

[CommaHolly]

What I'd like to know is does ECITA have any legal recourse for the things TW said about IT? I mean if we are talking LIBEL here,,,,He hasn't proven A THING in that regard??

Perhaps he's right,,,,,,not saying he is not,,,,,,,and as I felt from the beginning, if he's RIGHT about ECITA, then I can understand his anger,,,,,,,if not the way he chose to express it. THAT is between he and ECITA,,,,,,and IF he felt it necessary to get that info out into the community, he picked a (pardon me) piss poor way to do it.

 

[anorth_uk]

What I'd like to know is does ECITA have any legal recourse for the things TW said about IT? I mean if we are talking LIBEL here,,,,He hasn't proven A THING in that regard??

Perhaps he's right,,,,,,not saying he is not,,,,,,,and as I felt from the beginning, if he's RIGHT about ECITA, then I can understand his anger,,,,,,,if not the way he chose to express it. THAT is between he and ECITA,,,,,,and IF he felt it necessary to get that info out into the community, he picked a (pardon me) piss poor way to do it.

More like as he feels he is "THE Player" in the e-cig world, thinks it should be his trainset

 

[JollyRogers]

I was a TW customer :shrug: not anymore. And to show them, I un-liked and un-subscribed to their FB page. That'll show them :lol Now off to close my TW forum account. What he did, no matter the excuse, is ridiculous and was not handled professionally, not someone I wish to deal with.

 

[NotJohnnyDepp]

On the radio show broadcast on VP live this week, JC elaborated on his gripe with ECITA. (I suggest everyone on this thread should check the podcast it was really good).
He asserted a conflict if interest as one of the founders owns DV.
Firstly, a trade organisation is supposed to be run by the companies who sell the products, that's the point. ECITA is not the regulatory organisation, but serves to combine all the info on regulation and distil it into a voluntary industry standard which if all companies signed up to would strengthen and solidify standards in advance of the MHRA passing judgement. The better the standards now, the less companies will go to the wall when the time comes.
Secondly, he claims that someone at ECITA is misleading flavour companies with regards to who they can and cannot sell flavourings to. This is an allegation and as such warrants investigation if there is evidence suggesting its authenticity. Unfortunately the evidence he has is heresay and secondary source so might not be solid... But then it might.


Anyway I think It's good that the community should try to move on from this as frankly we need to stick together, Big tobacco is the enemy not ourselves.

 

[anorth_uk]

On the radio show broadcast on VP live this week, JC elaborated on his gripe with ECITA. (I he claims that someone at ECITA is misleading flavour companies with regards to who they can and cannot sell flavourings to. This is an allegation and as such warrants investigation if there is evidence suggesting its authenticity. Unfortunately the evidence he has is heresay and secondary source so might not be solid... But then it might.

I believe ECITA have responded on one of the threads to this

My understanding of it was the flavour producer had been approached for full strength flavours whereas they normal supply in a diluted format as they can be dangerous in their full strength. The flavour producer then appraoched ECITA for advice

 

[CommaHolly]

IMHO, the podcast was DAMAGE control. I listened,,,,,,,,and he sounded quite rational,,,,had he picked that vein to start with, we wouldn't be here right now.

 

[anorth_uk]

IMHO, the podcast was DAMAGE control. I listened,,,,,,,,and he sounded quite rational,,,,had he picked that vein to start with, we wouldn't be here right now.

I think part of the problem was certain people know what buttons to press to get an entertaining evening on the forums

 

[CommaHolly]

I think part of the problem was certain people know what buttons to press to get an entertaining evening on the forums

I think that's entirely possible. In fact, probable.

 

[NotJohnnyDepp]

Yeah I read that ECITA response too, and it seems rational and correct. JC's source seemed to misquote that communication and hence his gripe. It seems obvious now that the facts are in the open that the personal background to the issues were the driving factor and the rest fanned the flames.

In which case JC/TW really should apologise to ECITA as well.

 

[CommaHolly]

where is the ECITA response??

 

[anorth_uk]

where is the ECITA response??

I know I'm good but.........

I've lost count of the number of threads I've been watching over this, can't even remember which forum tbh

 

[Toby]

Yeah I read that ECITA response too, and it seems rational and correct. JC's source seemed to misquote that communication and hence his gripe. It seems obvious now that the facts are in the open that the personal background to the issues were the driving factor and the rest fanned the flames.

In which case JC/TW really should apologise to ECITA as well.

I think there could well be more to this than meets the eye.. there is some history...
.. and it wasn't the first time he came onto a UKV thread trying to pick a fight with ECITA, if I remember correctly...

And in fact (in case people don't realise) it wasn't the first time he would come over to UKV every now and then to (my quote) "generally release some angry sentiment".. it's been happening infrequently for some time now...

He did say (it's in the caches I think) that he did feel his company/products were being picked on, and so it made him angry/upset...
.. and so I guess that was his way of trying to combat it, but all it did was fan the flames...

 

[arry]

The reason TW products were picked on it because it was overpriced crap .

 

[DC2]

The reason TW products were picked on it because it was overpriced crap .

I'm pretty sure that is the kind of comment that Totally Wicked does not approve of.
Now the question is whether or not you should be free to say it.

 

[arry]

I'm pretty sure that is the kind of comment that Totally Wicked does not approve of.
Now the question is whether or not you should be free to say it.

But the truth hurts , as it always has

 

[CommaHolly]

you'd be better off to say that it's more expensive than other stuff you can buy and WHY you don't like it. I like their melon,,,,,,but I haven't liked some of their other flavors,,,,,too weak, IMHO,,,,,I tend to like the flavors I can add an extra flavor shot to,,,,,,,you may be able to do that on their website,,,,,but not if you buy locally at a vendor.

 

[arry]

you'd be better off to say that it's more expensive than other stuff you can buy and WHY you don't like it. I like their melon,,,,,,but I haven't liked some of their other flavors,,,,,too weak, IMHO,,,,,I tend to like the flavors I can add an extra flavor shot to,,,,,,,you may be able to do that on their website,,,,,but not if you buy locally at a vendor.

NAH!!!! much better to say CRAP imo

 

[TTK]

Jason needs to turn any investigation of ECITA over to a third party independent organizations. Not doing so will always taint any results in the eyes of many.
I will continue to buy TW products because I like them. I am also a member of the TW Social Forum and I don't think it is totally accurate to say that dissenting opinions are not allowed. In fact just yesterday there was a dissenting opinion about this whole issue on TW Social forum. I don't frequent it that often because I like this forum better, but when I want to research some of their products, I go there.
But, there is some history here that I don't know much about that existed before this latest episode.