Steeping overrated

[rabernet]

skoony, you must not vape complex ejuices, but rather one or two layer flavors. You can write as many long winded replies as you'd like, but it doesn't negate MY experience that the juices that I tend to vape DO benefit from steeping.

I like that the main vendor that I use also profiles their customers based on their feedback. If I want more of a particular flavor to come forward and it's not out of their house blend, the next time I order, they'll have changed the recipe to MY profile. That means fresh - that means it's going to need to steep - and the flavors from this vendor are who I measure all other vendors against. Their flavors are crisp and clean, but with aging, get even more complex and delicious, as time allows all those flavors to marinate together.

It's a shame that in this age of instant gratification, real craft vendors get dogged on because some vapors have no patience. Too bad - they're missing out on some of the finest vapes out there, IMHO.

 

[Sirius]

skoony, you must not vape complex ejuices, but rather one or two layer flavors. You can write as many long winded replies as you'd like, but it doesn't negate MY experience that the juices that I tend to vape DO benefit from steeping.

I like that the main vendor that I use also profiles their customers based on their feedback. If I want more of a particular flavor to come forward and it's not out of their house blend, the next time I order, they'll have changed the recipe to MY profile. That means fresh - that means it's going to need to steep - and the flavors from this vendor are who I measure all other vendors against. Their flavors are crisp and clean, but with aging, get even more complex and delicious, as time allows all those flavors to marinate together.

It's a shame that in this age of instant gratification, real craft vendors get dogged on because some vapors have no patience. Too bad - they're missing out on some of the finest vapes out there, IMHO.

One good example would be Vapor Craft Indi GoGo and Smashberry. Awesome after 10 days!

 

[edyle]

"Overrated" is not a description that would apply to steeping.

Some liquids require steeping; I don't know it's been mentioned already in the thread, but often a ultrasonic cleaner machine seems to speed up the steeping process.

One the other hand for a new vaper, I think there's a point there about steeping requirements; the important thing is, if a particular flavor requires steeping, unless you are already used to it, such flavors are best avoided. Many things go into the taste of a liquid besides the liquid itself; alot depends on your setup and how well it is working.

No point buying a gallon of expensive liquid that tastes great in the store on a dual coil dripper, and you take it home to steep for a month, then you start trying it on your plastic iclear on an MVP and you're scratching your head wondering how long does it have to steep for.

 

[lasttango]

I agree with the OP... after 4+ years of buying juices... from many different vendors, many don't really need steeping... some really do... so pay attention to what the vendor and fanboys/girls say about particular juices. I typically steep nets and really complex juices with highly contrasting flavors...

 

[VapinSweetZ]

I think you're right about the complexity but I'm not sure if it depend on how complex is the flavor (mix of different flavors) or on the complexity of the liquid ingredients.

For example, I tried lots of liquids from Virgin Vapor and a big part of them (I won't say most of them, but in my case it was) required 2-3 weeks (!) of steeping before I got a good flavor out of them, and most of the liquids I needed to steep didn't had a really complex flavor (I felt 1 or maybe 2 dominant flavors).

 

[bkebruins]

OP-- No I won't call you a noob,(nOOb) because your post didn't begin with:
@Mg H3Lp m3 B3cAuS3 1m @ nOOb lOlOlOlOlOlOl ... but yeah steeping helps. Tobaccos take a bit longer than fruits and contrary to somes beliefs, steeping for days with the tops off isn't a good idea. 12 hours is more than enough as you loose both flavor and nicotine when the tops are off. Besides all the dust and other things that can get into your juice.
Fruits take less time. I DIY some fruits and those are usually ready in 5 to 7 days. Tobaccos take time to mature, around 14 days.
Mind you if you order your juice you can factor in how long it was in transit from the vendor also.
Hope this helped.
~Siri

Thanks Sirius. It did indeed.

 

[skoony]

One more time, you've shown you have no idea when it comes to making e-liquid.
You're simply not going to come up with an amount of TFA Caramel Cappuccino that you can vape instantly or that's going to taste the same 3 weeks later. If you want consistency you're going to age it at least 3 weeks.

You can either accept the word of those who DO, you can actually try it yourself, or you can continue removing all doubt - because you've made paint, plastics and food.

how are you mixing it?
are you getting a good dispersion rate?
after a certain point there should be no short term change in the product.
sounds like your juice is settling due to lack of proper mixing.
making e-juice is a manufacturing process.
it is not brewing tea.
it is not making wine.
it uses raw ingredients that don't change like a tea leaf
or grape.
coca-cola has more ingredients than e-juice and when you buy a coke
you get a coke.
this is not rocket science or fine cuisine.
you take x amount of ingredients,mix using a set process y amount of time,
to obtain z taste, consistency,desired effect when using, and shelf life.
adjust formula to correct any deficiencies.
works for tooth paste all the time.

regards
mike

 

[skoony]

skoony, I guess you missed my question so I'll repeat it here..
Are you saying that when I make my marinara sauce I can just shake and/or stir the pot for a few minutes instead of letting it simmer all day and it will taste just as good?

your cooking not making e-juice.
and you should cook it all day if thats whats needed.
some might say its even better after 2 days.
one thing you dont do is pour it into a bottle,slap a cap on it(not canning it)
and put it on a shelf for two weeks.
i'll bet its pretty good the way you make it.

regards
mike

 

[skoony]

skoony, you must not vape complex ejuices, but rather one or two layer flavors. You can write as many long winded replies as you'd like, but it doesn't negate MY experience that the juices that I tend to vape DO benefit from steeping.

I like that the main vendor that I use also profiles their customers based on their feedback. If I want more of a particular flavor to come forward and it's not out of their house blend, the next time I order, they'll have changed the recipe to MY profile. That means fresh - that means it's going to need to steep - and the flavors from this vendor are who I measure all other vendors against. Their flavors are crisp and clean, but with aging, get even more complex and delicious, as time allows all those flavors to marinate together.

It's a shame that in this age of instant gratification, real craft vendors get dogged on because some vapors have no patience. Too bad - they're missing out on some of the finest vapes out there, IMHO.

why would any company make a product that wouldn't be completed till after it left its control.
if they are reading there product data sheets correctly they can formulate a process that
makes a product that is consistent and repeatable.
literally thousands of products we consume and use every day would
be totally useless according to you because they weren't steeped or aged.
most of which have a lot more ingredients that would have to "meld".
try pre mixing your flavors a week or two before making your favorite
e-juice.adjust amounts or mixing times.
it might take some tinkering.
what i am saying the correct process should yield the correct results.

regards
mike

 

[rabernet]

why would any company make a product that wouldn't be completed till after it left its control.
if they are reading there product data sheets correctly they can formulate a process that
makes a product that is consistent and repeatable.
literally thousands of products we consume and use every day would
be totally useless according to you because they weren't steeped or aged.
most of which have a lot more ingredients that would have to "meld".
try pre mixing your flavors a week or two before making your favorite
e-juice.adjust amounts or mixing times.
it might take some tinkering.
what i am saying the correct process should yield the correct results.

regards
mike

You are arguing that steeping doesn't make any difference when in fact it does. I can taste the difference, many others can as well. All your bluster doesn't change that fact. I happen to not get worked up over it.

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy Note II using Tapatalk.

 

[Myk]

how are you mixing it?
are you getting a good dispersion rate?
after a certain point there should be no short term change in the product.
sounds like your juice is settling due to lack of proper mixing.
making e-juice is a manufacturing process.
it is not brewing tea.
it is not making wine.
it uses raw ingredients that don't change like a tea leaf
or grape.
coca-cola has more ingredients than e-juice and when you buy a coke
you get a coke.
this is not rocket science or fine cuisine.
you take x amount of ingredients,mix using a set process y amount of time,
to obtain z taste, consistency,desired effect when using, and shelf life.
adjust formula to correct any deficiencies.
works for tooth paste all the time.

regards
mike

Why are you so afraid to try it yourself? It would probably cost you less than $20, you'd get some liquid out of it and you could show everyone who's been doing it wrong how it should be done.

I shake it, and shake it, and shake it some more. Sometimes I put it in the ultrasonic.
If it was about incomplete mixing how would letting it sit on a shelf change that incomplete mix?

The ingredients do change. Things oxidize, chemicals outgas and chemicals combine.

That's hilarious that you claim it's not making wine or tea yet you've compared it to mixing paint and making plastics!

your cooking not making e-juice.
and you should cook it all day if thats whats needed.
some might say its even better after 2 days.
one thing you dont do is pour it into a bottle,slap a cap on it(not canning it)
and put it on a shelf for two weeks.
i'll bet its pretty good the way you make it.

regards
mike

Actually the marinara sauce would work similarly to cooking all day if it was put into a jar, sealed and set on a shelf for two weeks.

 

[skoony]

The ingredients do change. Things oxidize, chemicals outgas and chemicals combine.

with the ingredients used in making e juice this shouldn't be an issue.there should be little or none
of this going on as it could create un-wanted substances in the juice.

regards
mike

 

[skoony]

That's hilarious that you claim it's not making wine or tea yet you've compared it to mixing paint and making plastics!

when making tea or wine there is something allways changing.
the tea leaf and grape will vary depending on growing conditions.
with wine you have the biochemical process fermenting caused by the yeast. controllable but to an extent.

regards
mike

 

[Myk]

The ingredients do change. Things oxidize, chemicals outgas and chemicals combine.

with the ingredients used in making e juice this shouldn't be an issue.there should be little or none
of this going on as it could create un-wanted substances in the juice.

regards
mike

That's hilarious that you claim it's not making wine or tea yet you've compared it to mixing paint and making plastics!

when making tea or wine there is something allways changing.
the tea leaf and grape will vary depending on growing conditions.
with wine you have the biochemical process fermenting caused by the yeast. controllable but to an extent.

regards
mike

There will always be the unwanted process of oxidation because that's what nicotine does. It also combines with the glycols.
Who knows what chemical combinations go on with flavor chemicals.
Talk "should" all you want but those of us who know are talking about reality.

Forget your 2¢ that isn't even worth that much. Put up or shut up. $22.55 plus shipping.

60 ml of Vegetable Glycerin
60 ml of 36 mg Flavorless Nicotine Liquid
10 ml Irish Cream Flavor
10 ml Sweetener (TFA)
10 ml Caramel Cappuccino Flavor (TFA)
10 ml Sweet Cream Flavor (TFA)

18mg 30ml recipe using the above ingredient list.

15ml 36mg nicotine
10.95ml VG
2.7ml distilled water
.15ml Sweet Cream
.3ml Caramel Cappuccino
.3ml Irish Cream
.6ml Sweetener


I figured it up for 30ml because you're so sure you'll be vaping right away and I want you to have enough to last 3 weeks so you can see the real change point.

If you look around you'll see many use much less CaraCap than I do. I discovered that the Irish Cream blends well with the CaraCap flavor. Using more is about flavor stability long term, otherwise it aged into a weak flavor.

 

[skoony]

There will always be the unwanted process of oxidation because that's what nicotine does. It also combines with the glycols.
Who knows what chemical combinations go on with flavor chemicals.
Talk "should" all you want but those of us who know are talking about reality.

.

.
oxidation at a certain rate under such conditions over what period of time and with what substances?
i doubt any oxidation would be significant .even steel will oxidize if given a long enough time.
there should be little or no chemical combinations going on in the flavoring.
that is why it is safe to use in food,and any combinations would occur in the mixing stage.
not after 2 weeks of looking at each other.

regards
mike

 

[Myk]

.
oxidation at a certain rate under such conditions over what period of time and with what substances?
i doubt any oxidation would be significant .even steel will oxidize if given a long enough time.
there should be little or no chemical combinations going on in the flavoring.
that is why it is safe to use in food,and any combinations would occur in the mixing stage.
not after 2 weeks of looking at each other.

regards
mike

Oxidation of nicotine (I thought I was pretty clear on that). Oxidation of flavorings. Oxidation of VG.

You doubt. I know. That's the difference here. Too bad you are so tightly tied to your doubts that you can't learn.

You seriously think flavors don't combine? If they didn't why would flavors in cooking have to "marry"? It would all be mix and eat if your way was reality.
Why is it sometimes you mix two things and instead of a blend of those two you end up with something completely different?

Make the same recipe as above a second time but leave out the Irish Cream (replace with VG). (If you want to believe your doubts go ahead and make 30ml, but if you want to believe me I wouldn't make more than 5ml because it probably won't ever be vapable.)

 

[skoony]

Oxidation of nicotine (I thought I was pretty clear on that). Oxidation of flavorings. Oxidation of VG.

You doubt. I know. That's the difference here. Too bad you are so tightly tied to your doubts that you can't learn.

You seriously think flavors don't combine? If they didn't why would flavors in cooking have to "marry"? It would all be mix and eat if your way was reality.
Why is it sometimes you mix two things and instead of a blend of those two you end up with something completely different?

Make the same recipe as above a second time but leave out the Irish Cream (replace with VG). (If you want to believe your doubts go ahead and make 30ml, but if you want to believe me I wouldn't make more than 5ml because it probably won't ever be vapable.)

let me make my self clear.
oxidation when and if it is occurring would be at such a low rate as not to have any short time affect on ejuice.
the ingredients in ejuice are used precisely because of there stability standing alone and
mixed with other ingredients.
over a long period of time oxidation may cause a breakdown in the ingredients but
not before any reasonable shelf life expectancy.
if any thing is happening its air entered into the mixing process needs time to leech out.
the air contained in a liquid stored in an inch wide 3 inch high container would take longer
to leech out than one stored in a 3 inch wide 1 inch tall container.
after more than forty years in the work force i can tell you there is no steeping or
aging processes going on considering the ingredients involved.
if it was true we wouldn't have nicotine gum,inhalers,patches,and sno-cone flavoring.
and lastly ejuice is not cooked.cooking involves a different process.it is not comparable.
and its not like making wine at all.

regards
mike

 

[Myk]

let me make my self clear.
oxidation when and if it is occurring would be at such a low rate as not to have any short time affect on ejuice.
the ingredients in ejuice are used precisely because of there stability standing alone and
mixed with other ingredients.
over a long period of time oxidation may cause a breakdown in the ingredients but
not before any reasonable shelf life expectancy.
if any thing is happening its air entered into the mixing process needs time to leech out.
the air contained in a liquid stored in an inch wide 3 inch high container would take longer
to leech out than one stored in a 3 inch wide 1 inch tall container.
after more than forty years in the work force i can tell you there is no steeping or
aging processes going on considering the ingredients involved.
if it was true we wouldn't have nicotine gum,inhalers,patches,and sno-cone flavoring.
and lastly ejuice is not cooked.cooking involves a different process.it is not comparable.
and its not like making wine at all.

regards
mike

Let me make myself clear, you could not have got the ingredients this fast.
Until you do and you actually try it yourself you have NOTHING more to say here.

Until then all you are talking about is what you imagine not what IS.

 

[GeorgeWachsmuth]

Facts are, the taste and the vaping experience DO change when many juices are aged. Sometimes significantly for the more enjoyable or better. THEY DO. Period. Theorize, analyze, masticate all the data and facts you want.....it doesn't change the truth.

 

[supermarket]

I have read a lot of comments from people stating they steep for up to a month or more. Call me crazy, or just a noob, but I never have noticed a difference in flavor after a day or 2 at most.

I won't call you crazy, but noob? sure It is definitely a common thought among noobs....and we see it pop up time and time again here, either newer folks asking whether or not steeping is necessary, or doubting that it is.


Plain and simple, if steeping wasn't necessary, it wouldn't be a thing. Why? Because NO ONE likes to wait before vaping their liquids. People simply wouldn't wait weeks for certain e-liquids to steep it if weren't necessary.


Some e-liquids come pre steeped, some don't. Some liquids need steeping, some don't. Some liquids need to steep for a day or two, while others need a week+. That is the truth of the matter.


There are some e-liquids I get that are literally unvape-able until they are steeped, as steeping DRASTICALLY changes the flavor profile.