Steeping Times and an Ultrasonic Cleaner Part III

[Dustin Brown]

I got the 30$ one from harbor freight and paid the extra 10$ for a two year warranty. I have been running this thing for about 8 hours a day I am impressed with it and the results!

 

[Vaptor]

What flavors are you massaging?

Works good on my Hot Dog

 

[hillbilly20]

Nope. All bottles (glass or plastic) in the UC are capped. I'm too cheap to allow my juices to get contaminated/diluted.

I put my bottles with their caps in uc,however I did open the bottles beforehand,they were not sealed as I receive them in vapemail but were capped.
I have a feeling that I did it wrongly and the water made its way to the bottles

 

[LongDraw]

So I have been using my USC for about 2 weeks. I just put in two glass 30 ml bottles, one filled with 20 mls of liquid and the other with 15 mls.

I watched a video on youtube of somone using theirs and I could see a lot of jet bubbles in the bottle. When I watch mine, and even hold it halfway in the tank I barely see this. One glass is clear to help see through.

I used tinfoil and it does create tiny holes in it, whether in the middle of the cleaner or towards the outside, within just a few seconds to half a minute. So I am pretty sure it is working.

This is the last cycle and I will have completed 3 hours for these two bottles, but the color in the clear glass doesn't seem as dark as the one that I steeped normally for 2 weeks or so.

Just my imagination or should I see bubbles in the bottler when its in the cleaner? I guess overall just wanting to make sure it is working.

The bottles I am using are the normal 30 ml, clear, amber, cobalt bottles. Could these be to thick? The USC is 40khz.

 

[bobalex]

... Just my imagination or should I see bubbles in the bottler when its in the cleaner?

I'm not certain but I don't remember bubbles forming. Anyone else see bubbles?

 

[LongDraw]

Here is a link to the video, I see this but on a much smaller scale.

UltraSonic (DIY E-liquid) - YouTube

I just finished up the last cycle, and now these bottles have done 3 hours total today. The 555 is still pretty light colored compared to the one that has steeped naturally for about 2 weeks or so.

More just wanting to make sure I am not doing something wrong and/or that my USC is working, thats why I have done the tinfoil test a few times. Plus tinfoil makes great hats

EDIT: My only thought is it does not look like the person is using a basket, and if it is touching the bottom then maybe it is getting more vibrations. I thought I ready earlier in the thread where not using a basket could wear out the machine sooner cause of the weight where the tranducers (i think that is what it is called) are. Plus, don't know if I could do that on mine, need about 2/3rds filled with water so my bottles would be under water.

 

[funkyZero]

I'm not certain but I don't remember bubbles forming. Anyone else see bubbles?

I never see bubbles and I'm not sure how that is possible. Can you share a link to that video? It's got me curious...
If you want to really see it work, take a clear bottle of your juice and shake it like mad and get the juice all full of bubbles, then dip it into the US water while it is already turned on, you will see the air bubbles instantly obliterate when they get into the wave level.
I don't know how anyone would get bubbles to generate from an US wave like that, but I'm interested in seeing it.
The glass thickness shouldn't make any difference.
I've heard some claim it didn't work with plastic bottles, but I've been testing this theory and it seems to work just as well with plastic bottles as it does with glass in my case.

 

[funkyZero]

Here is a link to the video, I see this but on a much smaller scale.

UltraSonic (DIY E-liquid) - YouTube

I just finished up the last cycle, and now these bottles have done 3 hours total today. The 555 is still pretty light colored compared to the one that has steeped naturally for about 2 weeks or so.

More just wanting to make sure I am not doing something wrong and/or that my USC is working, thats why I have done the tinfoil test a few times. Plus tinfoil makes great hats

EDIT: My only thought is it does not look like the person is using a basket, and if it is touching the bottom then maybe it is getting more vibrations. I thought I ready earlier in the thread where not using a basket could wear out the machine sooner cause of the weight where the tranducers (i think that is what it is called) are. Plus, don't know if I could do that on mine, need about 2/3rds filled with water so my bottles would be under water.

sorry, I just saw you had already posted the link.
I don't quite know what to think of that. I've never seen my liquids do that unless I put them in without shaking/mixing. Then I can see a lot of movement like that. Once the air bubbles are destroyed by the US, I never see any more form. I wonder if it has something to do with the fact that he is running with the liquid way above the water line? Also, that looks suspiciously like pure VG to me as well. I might experiment and see if I can reproduce that because I've never seen that in mine and I have a really powerful industrial grade unit.

Edit: I also want to add that it was me warning about putting weight on the tank itself. But, you have to understand that when I say things like that, there is a level of OCD involved. It will, in fact, cause premature wear in the transducer/generators. But to put things into perspective, it might only last 4 years instead of 5. Obviously that is entirely dependent on how MUCH weight you put on it and how long you run it that way. If you sit 1 liter bottles on the tank bottom, it will speed up the degeneration process radically. Sitting a 50g beaker of liquid on the bottom, not so much. But it will also slow down the generator while it is running and since most people here are using really inexpensive cleaners designed for jewelry, they don't have any extra power to give up. This can make your steeping process much less effective. That is the main reason I suggested you do not load weight on the tank itself... so that the US process runs at it's maximum efficiency.

 

[LongDraw]

Appreciate the responses, I just wanted to see if that video was the norm when used to steep.

Next time I steep a bottle I will have to not shake them first and see what happens. I only shook both bottles once when I first mixed them up, but by the time I put them in the USC all the bubbles had already went away.

At times I do see little pockets of bubbles form, but it doesn't last a long time and their not like jet bubbles like in the video.

I'll keep using the basket, partly because my bottles would be underwater with the USC needing 2/3rds of the tank filled with water.

 

[darkmoondreamer]

Hello, new to this thread but have a comment. A professional juice maker reminded me that the nicotine will degrade with the heat used in the speed steeping. He says he uses a sonic cleaner to steep his flavors and PG or VG, then adds the nicotine when they are done. How the nicotine is effected would be important to me.

 

[MrFabius]

What about using something like this:
Amazon.com: FULL SET: DSA70SE-JY3 3L 3.17QT 70 WATT 40KHz STAINLESS STEEL ULTRASONIC PARTS CLEANER MACHINE WASHER WITH INBOARD BASKET AND TOP COVER LID; PROFESSIONAL JEWELRY DENTAL TATTOO CAR REPAIR SHOPS USE: Home Improvement

and pour the liquid directly into the tank.
so no obstacle to the waves.
I believe we can have max efficiency.

The US cleaner uses a transceiver to generate very short high frequency vibrations. Those vibrations are transferred to the tank in a mechanical fashion. The reason you must use liquid in these cleaners is so the tank can then transfer that energy to the liquid that is in the tank. The liquid then carries those waves until they make contact with an object... and that can dislodge stuck dirt particles, etc... that's the idea behind it all. So, knowing this, think about it this way: you goal is to get that wave energy transferred into the juice in your bottles, so the wave will have to be transferred to your e-liquid by the bottle material itself. So think of this comparison: 2 hammers of the exact same weight, one with a plastic head and one with a traditional steel head. The steel is more dense and rigid than the plastic head so, when you hit something with both, the steel hammer is going to transfer energy to the target object in a more efficient manner, right? This is mainly because of material density. The plastic hammer, on the other hand, will absorb a portion of the energy itself rather than transfer it to the target. That is why we use plastic, rubber and brass head mallets on more delicate items when they need persuasion.

This is the same effect you will see using plastic bottles v/s glass bottles. The plastic will absorb some of the energy that you really want to make it to your juice inside the bottle. How much, I cannot tell you for sure. That would require some test gear, probes and an oscilloscope.
One other factor could be the location of the target object, but that is a huge variable and would depend a lot on the design of the particular cleaner you have, how the transducer is attached to the tank and where it attaches as well as the fluid level in the tank and the control circuitry. What I am getting at is that most cleaners produce a "stack" of equidistant bands that more or less cause hot spots. Knowing this, it is also safe to assume this is taken advantage of in a targeted manner so the further you get away from said "hot spot", the less high frequency energy your target will be exposed to, and one of those dead zones could be the level at which the bottle is floating on top of the tank fluid. Some cleaners have design features that use sweep frequencies to reduce this because it is considered problematic in some applications, but these cheap-o units we are using wouldn't contain such expensive circuitry.

One other thing to take into account and just as a for your information: I don't think any of us really know WHY US cleaners speed the steeping process because as far as I know, none of us really know WHY (from a molecular or chemical perspective) why we need steeping in the first place. We can make assumptions, but I have yet to read anything that explains the process technically. Ultrasonic cleaners work not because of vibrations, but because of the cavitation effect that they cause when they run. it's not radio waves or anything like that, it is physical cavitation. So, why does the flavor get better? Is it some sort of bonding? Is the cavitation changing the structure of something that makes the bonding easier? Is it just the residual heat that is doing the trick? I for one, would love to know. If anyone has any insight I would love to hear your thoughts on the subject.

 

[ratchet62]

What about using something like this:

and pour the liquid directly into the tank.
so no obstacle to the waves.
I believe we can have max efficiency.

The problem with pouring right in tank is that they have a minimum required fluid level. For the one you posted, that minimum level is probably 2 liters. I don't know many DIYers that are mixing 2 liter batches of juice.

Run the UC with less than the minimum fluid level and you'll burn it out real fast.

Sent from somewhere on planet Earth.

 

[yo han]

Well then buy an ultrasonic contact lens cleaner. Ideal for small amounts of liquid

 

[MrFabius]

I was actually interested in the concept more than the quantity to fill the cleaner tank.
So, regardless of the container size...will the eliquid directly poured into the tank receive a faster, better result or in your opinion it will not make any noticeable difference comparing to the immersed bottles method?

 

[dannyv45]

Hello, new to this thread but have a comment. A professional juice maker reminded me that the nicotine will degrade with the heat used in the speed steeping. He says he uses a sonic cleaner to steep his flavors and PG or VG, then adds the nicotine when they are done. How the nicotine is effected would be important to me.

You've got to look at it this way.

How much are you going to make at a time. If your going to make enough to last a year I would be concerned about nicotine degrading. If your going to make enough to last 1 - 2 months nicotine is not going to degrade enough that you would notice a difference in that amount of time. So for the short term it's not really a concern for long term then it may be.

I usually make enough to last 1 - 2 months and found that the steeping process continues after the UC steep is done. After 2 or more months the mix is just as fresh and usually the flavor changes for the better as time go's on. I've never noticed a decrease in throat hit or nic concentration in that amount of time.

 

[bobalex]

I was actually interested in the concept more than the quantity to fill the cleaner tank.
So, regardless of the container size...will the eliquid directly poured into the tank receive a faster, better result or in your opinion it will not make any noticeable difference comparing to the immersed bottles method?

Early on in the Grand UltraSonic Cleaner Experiment I thought about putting the mix directly into the small (3min timer) UC. I brought it up to my wife. She said no. We were using the UC to also make liposomal vitamin c and she didn't want a hint of a possibility that a deadly poison (even in parts per million/billion) might find its way into our vitamin c mixture.

End of that particular thought process.

 

[ratchet62]

I was actually interested in the concept more than the quantity to fill the cleaner tank.
So, regardless of the container size...will the eliquid directly poured into the tank receive a faster, better result or in your opinion it will not make any noticeable difference comparing to the immersed bottles method?

In theory, direct UC would work better, but I don't think you could ever discern a difference. Glass bottles are a very good conductor of UC energy, so any gains with a direct method would be minimal, on my opinion.

Sent from somewhere on planet Earth.

 

[MrFabius]

thank you for you replies.
I'm going to get one, and I will try both ways: bottle or direct UC.
I'll will update with the results as soon as I can.

Cheers

 

[funkyZero]

In theory, direct UC would work better, but I don't think you could ever discern a difference. Glass bottles are a very good conductor of UC energy, so any gains with a direct method would be minimal, on my opinion.

Sent from somewhere on planet Earth.

I'm guessing this would be a sloppy mess and it's probably a stupid idea, but one thing you COULD try is to get a ziplock(s) and fill with water, put them in the tank to take up space and then pour your 100ml or whatever of juice right in there with the bags. It would be a chore to cleanup in the end though... but you could at least test the idea without having to make a whole half-gallon of juice

 

[MrFabius]

I may get a smaller Sonic Cleaner model then.
Still confused if it will make any difference.
I was hoping that some of you did try the direct method