Steeping Times and an Ultrasonic Cleaner Part III

[HappiVappi]

What is confusing about this complete Ultra Sonic game is that nobody is talking watts.
Im sorry not read all the 170 pages.

I have spent the last 2 months testing speed steeping. Some juices you can vape right after mixing. Some need 4-5 weeks. Some will only cure on the 30th day no matter what you do.

I heat the water to 90c put the thin wall glass jars in and run it for 15 Min.
...........

Maybe you should have read all 170 pages or at least the section of the blind test a group of us conducted (UC vs crock pot).

Also, it seems to be common consensus that 4-6 hours in a UC or CP at 150F yield results very similar to 4-6 weeks of "normal" steeping.

The "on the 30th day" thing - I don't buy it, way too biblical for my taste....

Cheers.

 

[Kumatesh]

Ok so here is pre-steeped fresh mixed juice:.. (edited down for size)

Thank you for doing that test, Disco. I'll have to try it with extra hot water going in there

 

[dannyv45]

I have spent the last 2 months testing speed steeping. Some juices you can vape right after mixing. Some need 4-5 weeks. Some will only cure on the 30th day no matter what you do.

I heat the water to 90c put the thin wall glass jars in and run it for 15 Min.

Methods tested
a. UC with Heat 4x15 min cycles per day.

I have found that there is no method or process that I can come up with which will make my juices steep in 2 days. At best if a flavor takes 30 days to mature doing nothing. Then this complete circus will help you get it down to about 20 days. THis is best case scenario.
Then again I am working with high VG juices this may be the reason.

I dont think the Ultra Sonic helps much with steeping. But when it comes to cleaning your tanks and gear sure works a treat.

Your science is flawed and incomplete.

1. What were you steeping?

Fruit takes no steeping to 1 hour
Deserts 2 -3 hours
tobaccos 3 - 5 hours

2. How long did you steep your mix?

"(you stated and I Quote) a. UC with Heat 4x15 min cycles per day".

So I must ask for how many days? 1 hour may not be enough time depending on what you are steeping.


My humble opinion is you need to do more research and testing before you can conclude UC or CP steeping don't work. The few hundred people that have or presently are doing some sort of speed steeping can't all be wrong.

 

[jpasint]

Your science is flawed and incomplete.

1. What were you steeping?

Fruit takes no steeping to 1 hour
Deserts 2 -3 hours
tobaccos 3 - 5 hours

2. How long did you steep your mix?

"(you stated and I Quote) a. UC with Heat 4x15 min cycles per day".

So I must ask for how many days? 1 hour may not be enough time depending on what you are steeping.


My humble opinion is you need to do more research and testing before you can conclude UC or CP steeping don't work. A few hundred people that have or presently are doing some sort of speed steeping can't all be wrong.

I've been waiting for this.......

 

[Blueser]

My main tobacco mixes are either/and/or HS RY1/Indian/INW TDM S'Camel/Smooth Leaf....Steep Time = Zero. I heat the mixes pretty hot and shake the bejessus out of them and they're good to go. I personally don't see any benefits or taste improvements compared to UC/CP'ing for hours or natural ageing for weeks on end. I keep hearing about how long tobacco's need to steep but I don't see it with the brand/flavors I use.

 

[searchengine]

Just received 1.3L version of Digital Ultrasonic Cleaner - Ultra Sonic Bath Timer . Temp adjustable up to 80c, and Timer adjustable up to 30min.

 

[rowdyplace]

Just received 1.3L version of Digital Ultrasonic Cleaner - Ultra Sonic Bath Timer . Temp adjustable up to 80c, and Timer adjustable up to 30min.

That looks like it will do the job. Just remember to watch the temperature. Keep it under 150°F / 65°C. The reason I mention this is because the UC action actually heats the water - not just the unit heater.

 

[searchengine]

That looks like it will do the job. Just remember to watch the temperature. Keep it under 150°F / 65°C. The reason I mention this is because the UC action actually heats the water - not just the unit heater.

cheers, I just noticed the UC on its own is running at a temp of 50-55°C... setting the unit heater to only 10°C is bringing actual temp to 62-65°C.

 

[HgA1C]

New here, and a few quick questions and a suggestion. First, I take it the CP and UC are close as far as results? How long for 50/50 and 100VG in the CP?

Next, I would suggest a Sous Vide (Immersion Heater) cooker for those that like the CP. They are slightly spendy at around $200 but they keep a water bath around 1 degree for accuracy, so set it and forget it like a Ronco. Also most utilize circulation so it would also help as there would be a stirring process of the water. Not to mention the fact that it would be a good addition to the kitchen if interested in Sous Vide cooking. Basically you buy the cooker and it will work with several gallons of water. Many people modify beverage coolers for the added insulation to lower energy costs.

 

[buffaloguy]

@Hga1c Stirring, or agitating air into your juice, is unnecessary and counterproductive. Oxygen is the enemy and adding more of it by stirring and oxygenating(sp) your juice is bad practice and those doing it are vaping sub par juice.

Whether its vg or pg or anything else 4 hours is a good rule of thumb but see dannys post above about type of juice being made. Fruits require less time than tobaccos etc.

Anyone heard from MikeP? Its been months now and he hasnt been back to talk about nic degradation testing he planned on doing.

 

[Mrdaputer]

I thought of this idea after mixing a 10-fruit blend and a custard side by side, and also thinking about how some of my brighter mixes fade over time.

Has anyone considered using a UC for accelerated curing by stages? By this I mean if you have a complex juice with custard, bakery, and fresh fruit components, mix everything but the fruit, running ultrasonic for 3 weeks' equivalent, adding fruits and doing one more week? I may try this with my next test batch but it seems the last hour or whatever would be plenty to integrate the fruits into the overall mixture without accelerating the degradation of fruit ketones while allowing the custards and breads to fully mature.

Did you try this if so how did it work out?

 

[muranternet]

Did you try this if so how did it work out?

I've started working on this. What I've found is that the fruit components e.g. TFA Ripe Banana, Strawberry, Juicy Peach retain more of their character, but it's hit or miss. I can't really explain it except it's like a nic hotspot, where different pulls from the same payload may have different fruit characteristics, and different payloads as well. There's also another problem, which is that even if the mix blends perfectly, the flavors I like better uncured still have a limited lifespan before they combine into the fully-cured versions of themselves. Personally I try to mix for the longest potential usage window, so I've instead tried to adjust fruit components so they won't be over- or under-flavored at the end of a traditional curing cycle.

Still working on it for now, but I'm a bit obsessed over this new birch beer mix I'm dialing in so it may be a while.

 

[MotherNatural]

Did someone say Birch Beer? Yowzers!

 

[Mrdaputer]

I've started working on this. What I've found is that the fruit components e.g. TFA Ripe Banana, Strawberry, Juicy Peach retain more of their character, but it's hit or miss. I can't really explain it except it's like a nic hotspot, where different pulls from the same payload may have different fruit characteristics, and different payloads as well. There's also another problem, which is that even if the mix blends perfectly, the flavors I like better uncured still have a limited lifespan before they combine into the fully-cured versions of themselves. Personally I try to mix for the longest potential usage window, so I've instead tried to adjust fruit components so they won't be over- or under-flavored at the end of a traditional curing cycle.

Still working on it for now, but I'm a bit obsessed over this new birch beer mix I'm dialing in so it may be a while.

I think I get what your saying you could make a 30ml batch. Let it step to your liking. Then take like 5 ml of that put into a different bottle and then add your other fruit. That way you only made up a tank and it will always be fresh. Also you could tweak it if need be on the next tankful.

 

[Digame]

@Hga1c Stirring, or agitating air into your juice, is unnecessary and counterproductive. Oxygen is the enemy and adding more of it by stirring and oxygenating(sp) your juice is bad practice and those doing it are vaping sub par juice.

Whether its vg or pg or anything else 4 hours is a good rule of thumb but see dannys post above about type of juice being made. Fruits require less time than tobaccos etc.

Anyone heard from MikeP? Its been months now and he hasnt been back to talk about nic degradation testing he planned on doing.

A sous circulates the water around the bottles, it maintains better temp.

 

[HgA1C]

A sous circulates the water around the bottles, it maintains better temp.

Yes a sous heater is a home version of a lab grade water bath. It circulates water throughout the tank (not the bottles of e-liquid) so that the temperature is maintained at a fairly close tolerance. This also has the effect of speeding the cooking process as the water that transfers the heat is in constant circulation at a constant temperature. So if heat is one of the better methods a sous heater would be far more efficient and accurate than a crock pot. It is truly set it and forget it. Basically throw the e-liquid in the bath overnight and it would maintain your ideal temp indefinitely.

Which brings my thoughts back to another of my interests cappuccino, and the impact of heat on steep quality. Milk ideally should be heated to 150-155f; under that temperature the milk does not produce a sweetness, and over that temp the sweetness is destroyed as the chemicals break down. This may possibly explain variance in the heat for speed steep results. Personally with my somewhat limited knowledge of chemistry (organic 2), and physics the heat method should provide optimum results unless there is more going on then homogenization. Thus, if the temp is allowing some of the more aromatic compounds to undergo chemical reactions this would be able to be controlled via precise temperature regulation.

 

[muranternet]

Did someone say Birch Beer? Yowzers!

It's close but elusive. Now on iteration 4. Another reason to like having a UC.

 

[buffaloguy]

Yes a sous heater is a home version of a lab grade water bath. It circulates water throughout the tank (not the bottles of e-liquid) so that the temperature is maintained at a fairly close tolerance. This also has the effect of speeding the cooking process as the water that transfers the heat is in constant circulation at a constant temperature. So if heat is one of the better methods a sous heater would be far more efficient and accurate than a crock pot. It is truly set it and forget it. Basically throw the e-liquid in the bath overnight and it would maintain your ideal temp indefinitely.

Which brings my thoughts back to another of my interests cappuccino, and the impact of heat on steep quality. Milk ideally should be heated to 150-155f; under that temperature the milk does not produce a sweetness, and over that temp the sweetness is destroyed as the chemicals break down. This may possibly explain variance in the heat for speed steep results. Personally with my somewhat limited knowledge of chemistry (organic 2), and physics the heat method should provide optimum results unless there is more going on then homogenization. Thus, if the temp is allowing some of the more aromatic compounds to undergo chemical reactions this would be able to be controlled via precise temperature regulation.

Apologies. For some reason I read it as sous vide for temp.... and something else to stir the eliquid. Sorry bout that.

Your last statement about milk makes me think of a different perspective. Different compounds might require different optimal temperatures. Whereas one juice might need 150°f for best results, a different one might need more or less heat for best results. That being said, in general I have across the board worse results when using less heat than 150°f.

You could probably spend a lifetime figuring out optimal temps for each component in eliquid though.

 

[Boletus]

It's close but elusive. Now on iteration 4. Another reason to like having a UC.

Are you extracting from black birch, the original flavoring for birch beer? When I lived back east, I always wanted to try making black birch syrup from the sap, since chewing on a fresh twig has such a nice minty taste, but I heard you need way more birch sap to make a syrup than maple sap, which in itself requires a heck of a lot.

 

[muranternet]

Are you extracting from black birch, the original flavoring for birch beer? When I lived back east, I always wanted to try making black birch syrup from the sap, since chewing on a fresh twig has such a nice minty taste, but I heard you need way more birch sap to make a syrup than maple sap, which in itself requires a heck of a lot.

If I had a stand of black birch I would try this with a traditional kettle boil with a filter and reduction, but since I don't I'm just using concentrates. Started with a wintergreen/champagne mix and now balancing in the little herbal and wood notes for depth and roundness.