Duh me, I just noticed in my OP that I said I was extracting the tobacco with VG...I meant to say PG! (I went back and edited/changed it). 'Sorry about that.
Steeping Times and an Ultrasonic Cleaner Part III
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I'll take a shaker
One more time for the next page, man that shaker is so mesmerizing!
I tried to venture into another thread after catching up here, and found myself coming back to this page 2-3 times already to consider the shaker again
Yes, most certainly! (all suggestions willingly accepted here)! And I totally agree! It's my educated-but-not-yet-experienced-opinion that PG is a much more effective menstruum for extractions that VG. Yet in this thread (Coffee flavor?) , the originator used straight VG successfully for coffee. I originally added 10% dw and 10% pga to the VG in hopes to dilute the viscosity and add some extration 'oomph'. 'Turns out that (maybe?) not using a microwave may have had a negative impact (I read somewhere else that too much heat and "timing" in general factors in)...but we haven't owned/used a microwave for almost 10 years. I'd also read that steeping for several weeks would do the trick (in either PG or VG), so I was in the process of doing that when the UC arrived.
I UC'd two of the 'already steeping' coffee extracts for an hour, strained/filtered and tried them at 5/10/15% (without UC steeping the new blend)...and although the 15% was the only one close enough to be strong enough for my taste-buddies, the improvement in flavor-intensity was HUGE (I could actually smell/taste "coffee" in the 5%, where before there was nothing). So I have those 3 lil' test bottles steeping in the UC now to measure the increase (hopefully) of the flavor intensity.
:::sigh::: We're both fairly sensitive to PG (me more than hubby), so we do our best to minimize it. However, we DIY for others and realize the PG is essential for TH - particularly for tobaccos (and especially for those switching from analogs). Hubby vapes a lot more tobaccos than me, so we usually add a small amount of PG to the tobaccos we make for ourselves. So the extraction that just came out of the UC is 100% PG. If it's not strong enough to use at 5% or less, we'll make a "double extraction" (double extraction = using the PG extraction we just made as the "PG" while repeating the process with fresh tobacco).
We're working on an additive/alternative for throat hit using Capsicum HEAT (FW at ECX). It's definitely volatile (probably dangerous/unhealthy at high strengths). By diluting/mixing 5 drops into 10ml VG, and using 2% of that mixture we're getting close on the TH (hope that helps somebody).
So far on the UC Tobacco Extraction:
We used a 1 cup mason jar, filled it halfway with tobacco, and added PG (about 1/2" more than the tobacco - figuring some would soak into the tobacco...but not much did).
We UC'd it for 4 30 minute cycles, with the heater on (resting the UC between the 2nd & 3rd cycle for 30 minutes). We shook the bottles 2-3 times during each 30 minute cycle.
We strained it through a single coffee filter. Then we layered two single coffee filters, and strained the 'single strain' through those. Then we put two cotton balls in syringe, and pressed it through the cotton balls.
Color? Deep golden amber
Clarity? Crystal clear
Taste? Not yet known. Hubby is mixing up vials at 1/2.5/5/7.5/10% as I type this. We'll give 'em a quick test vape, them UC/steep them and taste them again.
Something to note/think about (that I forgot to do :::grrrrr:::
My guess is that in making an NET (UC'd or not), if we macerate the tobacco fully before extraction (ours was similar to drip coffee in size), that it would create a MUCH stronger/darker extraction (and we'd be able to use far less in our mixes)....at least that's the way it works with herbal tinctures (using alcohol and dried herbs). Some herbalists use VG for extracting herbs instead of alcohol (it's farFarFAR less effective).
PG does contribute to throat hit but the biggest factor that influences throat hit is Nicotine strength. Also in regards to your coffee mix keep in mind when using a mostly VG mix more flavor is needed then when using a mostly PG mix. So 10 - 15% flavor is in the ball park. You should let it steep a few days to see if the taste mellows if not then It sounds like you need to fine tune it by maybe reducing to 12 or 13% but the exact amount only your taste buds know for sure.
As far as the tobacco my procedure outlined earlier worked well for me. I would be curious to know if you filtered and tested your fine ground tobacco.
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I forgot to macerate/grind the first jar of NET we made yesterday, so our first batch was made almost exactly like you made yours (although I'm remembering a difference in "UC time"; we UC'd ours for 2 hours). 100% PG.
When we tasted it, our tongues were 'vaped out' - so we'll taste it again today. Last night it tasted like 'basically nothing' (nothing at like an analog
) - but it had wonderful "body & depth" I'm starting a batch now using the ground tobacco. It'll likely turn out to be much darker and more flavorful; I'll post pix of the difference if it does.
As far as the "VG needs more flavor" thing, I do know that's commonly reported. But, I'm 'one of those' that never believes "traditional knowledge" until I prove it to myself - and then when/if I do prove it, I do my best to change it! Lol
When we first started DIYing, we used a base of around 85% VG; 12/13% dw; and 2/3% pga (at 12-18% nic)...and we mixed dozens of flavors at 2.5%...and gradually tweaked them up to 5%. They DEFINITELY were weak. Then we started digging in on the use of saline solution (knowing that saline wettens/hydrates, as well as enhances flavors). We made a new base of 80% VG, 9% dw; 9% sterile .9% saline; 2% pga...and retested the flavors (and tested more). WOW, the .9% saline solution (at 9%, in our base) totally rocks.
We've made about a dozen "published recipes" now with our base, and all of them are plenty vibrant/flavorful - and the only PG we add is what is in the flavors.
Of course, there is a possibility that not all flavors will react the same way with the saline; and I've read some saye the pga can lessen the flavor intensity of certain flavors. So we'll keep testing and working with it 'as we go' and see if we can come to any 'solid conclusions'.
I agree that nicotine is the most 'major player' for TH. Our goal is ditching the nictotine addiction entirely (we've dropped from 18% to 12% in just a couple of months, but we still reach for an 18%er occasionally). Since we know we'll be no-nic-ers eventually, we're working the Capsicum HEAT to amend & replace the TH from the nic.
In the meantime, GUCEing ROCKS...and I hope people keep adding to this thread for a LONG time!
Had to mix up some juice for a trip...giving this a shot. One recipe is usually ready to vape right away...but I made my first espresso, so they are both in the ultrasonic.
Here's the results --
The NET on the right was made using the tobacco "as it comes" right out of the bag; the bottle on the left was made using tobacco that we macerated/ground in a coffee grinder before adding the PG.
We mixed each of them with 30PG/70VG 18nic base at 1%. 2.5%. 5%. 7.5%, and 10% - UC'd them for 2 hours...and vaped them (see Results below).
Method:
Normal cut (not macerated/ground): We filled a 1 cup Mason jar 1/2 full of tobacco and covered it with PG...adding about 1/2" more than the line of tobacco, because we figured the tobacco would soak up some of the PG (the tobacco soaked up very little). We put the jar in the ultrasonic (with heat) and it ran for four 30 minute cycles (we shook the jar very thoroughly several times after each cycle). We rested the UC for 30-60 minutes after the first two 30 minute cycles.
We strained it through a single coffee filter; then restrained it through two coffee filters together (that had first been separated); we then stuffed two 30ml syringes with two cotton balls each. Poured the mixture into the first syringe and pushed it through the cotton balls into the second syringe...and pushed that through the cotton balls into bottles. The yield was two 4 dram (16ml) bottles, almost full.
We followed the same procedure using the macerated tobacco (which we'd ground to a fine coffee grind). Since the tobacco was ground so finely (with no 'air' between all the big pieces), it required about 20/30% more tobacco to fill the jar to the halfway point.
When we added the PG to the 1/2 jar of ground tobacco, we had to use a spoon to mix it into the tobacco (which created a very dense/muddy substance which was obviously going to become even thicker as it UC'd/heated). So we added approximately 1/3 cup more PG and mixed it in thoroughly. The final yield after filtering was two 16 ml bottles, almost full.
Results:
Those made with non-macerated tobacco (the lighter ones) needed to be vaped at 7.5% or 10% to get a decent amount of flavor. It seemed we'd have to use the 10% if we'd be adding any additional flavors (or the flavors would cover the light tobacco taste). It was very "thick & dense" at 7.5 & 10% (with plenty of body) - but seemed likely to clog an atty fairly quickly.
The one made with macerated tobacco was surprisingly intense at 5% and almost nauseatingly strong at 7.5% (in fact, we had to rinse the atty's because there was no WAY we could have 'vaped the attys clean'!).
What that means to us? We'll always macerate/grind our tobacco (and coffee, etc) before extracting it! Even though it takes a smidge more PG & tobacco/other to yield the same amount, what it yields is MUCH stronger...meaning we'll need to use MUCH less - and it will be much easier on our equipment.
GUCEing for extractions works quickly & easily! And in this experiment, it worked even better when we used finely ground tobacco.
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I'll have to try macerating my tobacco next time. I have a very nice mini food processor I bought for shredding whole tobacco leaf back in the day when I was RYOing. Found it made it to fine for RYO purposes so it's since just been sitting doing nothing.
I am considering using jelly jars for larger quantities and was wondering about the effect of the UC on the metal rings. Any thoughts?
Thanks,
Stephen
Thanks,
Stephen
Shouldn't cause any issues at all unless the US starts causing the paint to flake or something. That doesn't really matter other than it makes the water messy. what I have found myself doing is putting the water in the tank, putting my juice in 30 or 60 ml glass bottles and then putting those inside of like 150ml beakers with water in them to keep stuff from falling over, etc. I do the process with open bottle tops so that lets me control them better knowing they wont fall over or get water inside of them. Just leave the lid off of your US tank of you do it with open tops, the condensation from the water evaporation will drip into the bottles... the US action heats the water up a lot and makes it kinda steamy in there not to mention the temperature will get pretty high
There's no benefit to leaving the tops off during the UC process. If you need to air off alcohol or chemical taste then after the steep leave the caps off for 24 hours.
Hey GUCE-ers one and all - I just finished my latest video:
And it's time to devote an entire video to GUCE. But before I do that ... I'll need all your input/tweaks/tips. Anyone who has crawled through this thread knows I'm a 100% PG All Tobacco-All The Time vaper. My DIY experience is limited because I make 4 flavors ... period. Everyone else follows waaaaaaaaay more complex recipes than I do.
So ... when y'all have a moment to spare ... shoot me some info about how you approach GUCE-ing and I'll incorporate it into the video.
Thanks,
Bob
And it's time to devote an entire video to GUCE. But before I do that ... I'll need all your input/tweaks/tips. Anyone who has crawled through this thread knows I'm a 100% PG All Tobacco-All The Time vaper. My DIY experience is limited because I make 4 flavors ... period. Everyone else follows waaaaaaaaay more complex recipes than I do.
So ... when y'all have a moment to spare ... shoot me some info about how you approach GUCE-ing and I'll incorporate it into the video.
Thanks,
Bob
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This one is similar to mine:
Amazon.com: Joy4Less Ultasonic Cleaner Model 7810, Digital: Electronics
in that the timer goes up to 8 minutes.
I bought this one:
http://www.harborfreight.com/25-liter-ultrasonic-cleaner-95563.html
for $80 and if I clicked around a little bit longer I would have found a UC with a much longer timer for just a couple of bucks more. When you're ultrasonic-ing your juices for 2-3-4-5 hours or more ... it is a complete drag to keep hopping up every 8 minutes to start it up again.
Here's one for $83 (If you click around more I'm sure you'll find it cheaper.)
Amazon.com : Joy4Less Professional Grade Ultrasonic Cleaner 4810, 30-min Timer, Plastic Basket : Jewelry Cleaning & Care Products : Electronics
+1 on the
Amazon.com : Joy4Less Professional Grade Ultrasonic Cleaner 4810, 30-min Timer, Plastic Basket : Jewelry Cleaning & Care Products : Electronics
It's what I have and love it.
Amazon.com : Joy4Less Professional Grade Ultrasonic Cleaner 4810, 30-min Timer, Plastic Basket : Jewelry Cleaning & Care Products : Electronics
It's what I have and love it.
http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/diy-e-liquid/348635-steeping-times-ultrasonic-cleaner-part-iii-50.html#post10118214
Check out the video so you can see how I want to go about a UC DIY video.
Please.
Check out the video so you can see how I want to go about a UC DIY video.
Please.
I for one enjoyed the heck out of that, well put together organized and informative. And I loved all the old timey clips
I watched it a while back and enjoyed the hell out of it.
I just looked and see that Ta2ooz said almost exactly what I was going to say.
Well done and if you make another like that it'll be a hit too.
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