Steeping Times and an Ultrasonic Cleaner Part III

[rowdyplace]

Love the dry4 idea. What vendors for cream and caramel?

Glance back at post #1217 of this thread.

 

[RocketPuppy]

Glance back at post #1217 of this thread.

Sounds good. Thanks Mike.

 

[mikepetro]

If there is any way you can determine shipping charges in advance, let us know. We can then send you the money via Paypal.

PM is probably the best way to handle this...

Sending you my info this evening...

For USPS Priority (2-3 days) it is $5.25

 

[SlickWilly]

I have a coupon for 25% off at Harbor Freight that is good until 8/8/14, while I'm at it here are a few for freebies too. I bought the larger US cleaner from them some months ago, it has the heater you can choose to use or not use. This one -->http://www.harborfreight.com/25-liter-ultrasonic-cleaner-95563.html It is on sale right now, with the 25% off you can get it for just $56.25 You can read the reviews left there, it has a pretty good rating and is the same as the Lyman brand which sells for twice the price Lyman Turbo Sonic 2500 Ultrasonic Case Cleaner

I bought it for cleaning my brass for reloading ammo but have used it for other things as well. I just found this thread so I haven't tried steeping yet but plan on it now. I did clean some of my coils from my Kanger T3S shortly after I got it and I was amazed how they came out as new in just two 8 minute cycles in just plain hot water, but have since started recoiling them. One thing I would suggest with any US cleaner, give it a break between multiple cycles, running them constantly for a long time may overheat and ruin them. There is a warning against this in the user manual (which you can download and read on the HF link above) I think that's why some have short preset cycle times.

Hope this earns the new guy some brownie points, I feel out of place here.

 

[mikepetro]

Nobody has given me a final recipe, please speak up! I intend to do this trial tomorrow evening and ship the results out on Friday.

If I dont hear anything I will make it like this:
(anything can be adjusted, just speak up)

50/50 PG/VG base
24 mg/l Nic
DRY4 7%
Caramel 2%
Cream 2%

Unless someone voices some other desire I will do the trial like this:

• Mix a 100ml batch of the above recipe.
• Put 30ml into 3 different glass bottles.
• Steep one bottle in the Ultrasonic at 150f for 3 hours
• Steep one bottle in the Crock Pot at 150f for 3 hours
• Dispense results into 10ml plastic bottles labeled: Control Sample (unsteeped), Sample A, and Sample B.
• Ship 3 sets of samples out the next day.

Still need the Postage and Addresses for the three samplers.........

OK, given the lack of further feedback the trial was performed last night as stated above.

Smelled heavy on the cream to me, but then I am not a tobacco juice person. Steeping did tame the cream down though.

Since I only got Rowdy's address and nobody else's, I will send all three sample sets to him today via USPS Priority.

There was a distinct visual difference between all 3 samples, with Sample A being the darkest.

 

[Sl4gathor]

EDIT:
NM.....heh

How goes the heat effects nic testing????

Sent from sector 13285 on my HTC One

 

[rowdyplace]

As of 4PM on Sunday, 5/18/2014, the three sets of samples are traveling in the hands of the USPS to me.

Upon arrival, I will immediately ship a set to Danny45 and a set to Rocketpuppy for their review.

After each of us have posted our opinions, MikeP will tell us which sample was UC'd and which was crocked...

to be continued...

 

[SlickWilly]

Good deal, looking forward to the results. I'm doing my research and looking to give DIY a try, so much to learn!

 

[mikepetro]

EDIT:
NM.....heh

How goes the heat effects nic testing????

Sent from sector 13285 on my HTC One

Its done, I just updated my blog post about it.

No doubt about it, heat degrades nicotine.

At 150F there was an 8% loss (possibly more - see my blog), at 175F it was a 10% loss. AT 125F there was only .8% loss so I will stick to that temp for my steepings. Somewhere between 125 and 150 it declines more rapidly.

BTW, I had a bonafide chemist review my test protocol and he said it "is sound".

 

[mikepetro]

As of 4PM on Sunday, 5/18/2014, the three sets of samples are traveling in the hands of the USPS to me.

Upon arrival, I will immediately ship a set to Danny45 and a set to Rocketpuppy for their review.

After each of us have posted our opinions, MikeP will tell us which sample was UC'd and which was crocked...

to be continued...

One method definitely had more of an effect on color than the other!

 

[SlickWilly]

Its done, I just updated my blog post about it.

No doubt about it, heat degrades nicotine.

At 150F there was an 8% loss (possibly more - see my blog), at 175F it was a 10% loss. AT 125F there was only .8% loss so I will stick to that temp for my steepings. Somewhere between 125 and 150 it declines more rapidly.

BTW, I had a bonafide chemist review my test protocol and he said it "is sound".

Thank you so much! I know you spent a lot of time and expense, thanks for sharing! This will help me in my quest to get started and have a better chance at good results.

 

[Passunca]

Its done, I just updated my blog post about it.

No doubt about it, heat degrades nicotine.

At 150F there was an 8% loss (possibly more - see my blog), at 175F it was a 10% loss. AT 125F there was only .8% loss so I will stick to that temp for my steepings. Somewhere between 125 and 150 it declines more rapidly.

BTW, I had a bonafide chemist review my test protocol and he said it "is sound".

Thanks for sharing.

Your conclusions are in line with one thread I've read on Reddit that the author claims very similar results on nicotine degradation.
While 8% might seem too much, we have to consider that an 8% loss in 10 mg results in 9,2 mg.
Totally unnoticeable, at least to me.

As no one likes to waste (I hope ), and if we were getting a big consensus about "heat steeping" 4H@150F would resemble natural steeping 2 weeks, next time I will "heat steep" 5H@125F, to prevent more nicotine degradation, using the same ratio while lowering the temp.

Does it make any sense?

For the record, I'm very happy with the 4H@150F (plus a handful of days natural, while I vape the less steeping time juices first), but improvements are always welcome.

 

[Sl4gathor]

Its done, I just updated my blog post about it.

No doubt about it, heat degrades nicotine.

At 150F there was an 8% loss (possibly more - see my blog), at 175F it was a 10% loss. AT 125F there was only .8% loss so I will stick to that temp for my steepings. Somewhere between 125 and 150 it declines more rapidly.

BTW, I had a bonafide chemist review my test protocol and he said it "is sound".

You rock sir!!!!!!!!
125 it is.....

Sent from Star Dock, on my HTC One

 

[RocketPuppy]

MikeP -

Thank you for testing and posting the results of nic degradation in various temps.

Seems like 120-123F might be the way to go.

We've heard so many conflicting assessments, and these were so close to my own.

Thank you!

 

[mikepetro]

Of course, if 150f suits your recipe, you can just make you nic concentration 8-10% stronger to begin with, in anticipation of the loss.

 

[Blueser]

I keep all my juice at room temp

 

[buffaloguy]

Im sorry but your tests are wrong. He may have reviewed your protocol, but not your actual tests.

I have tested my nic at 150° and noted zero loss in potency. There is info on reddit with actual Lab analysis and spectrograph results. Others in these very forums have tested their juice as well with no noticeable drop in nic strength.

When I say no noticable drop here the highest drop Ive seen is 1mg, and only on one sample from others results. 8% is not in line with the data Ive seen.

While I understand and appreciate your research something is amiss here. You have an anomaly of some kind happening. Too many others cant be that wrong.

Its done, I just updated my blog post about it.

No doubt about it, heat degrades nicotine.

At 150F there was an 8% loss (possibly more - see my blog), at 175F it was a 10% loss. AT 125F there was only .8% loss so I will stick to that temp for my steepings. Somewhere between 125 and 150 it declines more rapidly.

BTW, I had a bonafide chemist review my test protocol and he said it "is sound".

 

[RocketPuppy]

Im sorry but your tests are wrong. He may have reviewed your protocol, but not your actual tests.

I have tested my nic at 150° and noted zero loss in potency. There is info on reddit with actual Lab analysis and spectrograph results. Others in these very forums have tested their juice as well with no noticeable drop in nic strength.

When I say no noticable drop here the highest drop Ive seen is 1mg, and only on one sample from others results. 8% is not in line with the data Ive seen.

While I understand and appreciate your research something is amiss here. You have an anomaly of some kind happening. Too many others cant be that wrong.

1mg of every strength? quantity?

 

[rowdyplace]

Im sorry but your tests are wrong. <<snip>>

#1- I have tested my nic at 150° and noted zero loss in potency.

#2- There is info on reddit with actual Lab analysis and spectrograph results.

#3- Others in these very forums have tested their juice as well with no noticeable drop in nic strength.

When I say no noticable drop here the highest drop Ive seen is 1mg, and only on one sample from others results. 8% is not in line with the data Ive seen.

<<snip>>.

Can you provide supporting data and or links to these statements? Substantiation would be appreciated.

 

[DejayRezme]

I'm really curious about the steeping through heat vs ultrasonic, but also in the nicotine degradation. What does nicotine degrade into? Does it oxidize? Does it taste differently? Harsher, softer?

Thank you very much for doing the tests mikepetro!