Steeping Times and an Ultrasonic Cleaner Part III

[wllmc]

I have burnt out 3 of these UC pictured above lol. luckily harbor freight is down the street and has a 90 day warranty. from my experience it get pretty hot also. had better results cutting it to 15 on and 15 or 30 off. had it on a garden timer . it made the total steep time longer but extended the life of the unit some. my 3rd one is sitting in a box waiting to go back,I think Im going to go with the food dehydrator next. no water and temp control. its like the crock pot in the sense that its meant to run for hours on end.

 

[Mowgli]

I've got one looks exactly the same, cant remember the brand, and with a simple timer plugged it, you can run it 30 mins on, 30 mins off. (by keeping the on button pressed like your doing)

The water absolutely gets hot, hot enough that it is uncomfortable to stick your fingers in. I never took a temp reading, but its easily as hot as hot water out of the tap or hotter (maybe).

How hot it gets depends on how many bottles are in it and how warm the liquid is in the bottles.
I give it long cooldown periods with the caps off so I get my juices steeped and aerated as one process.
I think it's lasted as long as it has because I don't let the water get too hot.
When I want to keep it going I plop in an ice cube or two.

I expected it to last a month and would have been ok with that. I'm thrilled that it's still working after a year.

 

[buffaloguy]

Ive long held onto the understanding that heat creates motion in liquid. Being an avid home chef I know that when I boil water it will come to a rolling boil at some point (Simplified idea... and yea, I know how to boil water... lol). The reason I decided to use the crock pot two years ago was because I didnt want to spend the money on UC, and realized by heating my liquids in the crock rather than closet steeping I was inducing mixing and motion to my steeping by adding heat.

The way I saw it was UC simply was about shaking and mixing. The heat generated by that energy was a bonus but just that, a side effect of the UC process. Indeed a beneficial one for those that use UC's. After reading what I could and realizing my results with the crock pot were better I decided to actually buy a thermometer and check the temp. It was 150° on low and it seemed to stay close to that temp over several hours. I then went into testing lengths of time comlarable to steeped juices. It helped that I always put my own production date on my bottles. After about six weeks of testing different lengths of time in a crock pot vs knowingly matured closet steeped juices (same recipes) I realized that 4 hours seemed to put me at about the two and a half week mark. As a mostly tobacco vaper this was perfect for me. I never looked back.

I did manage to get my hands on a UC that heats up to about 130° I found at the thrift store last year. I did try it and the results werent as good as I was getting with the crock. The juices also seemed a bit harsher. Ive never been one to care about throat hit. I vape 80%vg or more. If I want throat hit Ill go sub ohm. I use the UC to clean gear and jewlery now.

I believe the B sample that seems preferred thus far is the crock pot steep.

Once we get the results of the nic loss test at 150° that Mike is doing itll be great to know how to adjust mixing for that. Although if it ends up to be Im losing 1 to 2mg in a 30 ml bottle or so I may not actually worry about it. Being my goal in the end is to be nic free (Im about to step down to 8mg/ml). Heck I may be vaping that now since my last batches were 10mg/ml.

One thing I wonder tho. Does volume of the liquid being steeped matter and effect the results of all these tests? In my mind it stands to reason a 5 or 10ml bottle would be effected more than a 60, 120, or 250ml size. I know when I steep bottles over 120ml in the crock I need to leave it in a couple more hours vs sizes 120ml and under to achieve the same results.

Most often Im making 30 and 60ml bottles.

 

[RocketPuppy]

Theoretically, if you're leaving larger sized bottles in for a longer time period, then the liquid would eventually reach the same temp as the smaller bottles. Nic degradation would be slower, but adding time to larger quantities would seem to have the same effect if the liquid inside is reaching the same temp. This is speculation, though.

I'm curious now, however, if anyone is measuring the temp of the juice.

When I first started diy, I once put a 10 ml in the microwave for 8 seconds and took the temp. In 8 seconds, it reached 170F. That was the first and last time I did that.

Are people checking the temp of the juice? or just the water in the SC/UC?

 

[wllmc]

I was making 30 ml bottles one time and checked the temp every 2 hrs. at 150 degrees the temp of the liquid inside stayed 139 degrees. I tested 4 bottles this way for a 4 hour steep , took those out and put 4 more bottles in for 4 hrs and checked those every 2 hrs and it was the same 150 degree crock pot temp and the juice inside the bottles a perfect 139 degrees. Im guessing volume , type of glass etc would change that tho.

 

[Vtwin]

Hi everybody - I am going to try the crock pot method for the first time today. Do you put your bottles in a baggie to protect the labels? Also, do you put the bottles in a bowl and then put the bowl in the cp to keep the bottles off the bottom?

Appreciate the help and any other "pointers" to help with my first time.

Steve

 

[DejayRezme]

Appreciate the help and any other "pointers" to help with my first time.

My tip for you: Do not bother putting a label on the flask before putting them in water... they'll come right off!

 

[RocketPuppy]

Hi everybody - I am going to try the crock pot method for the first time today. Do you put your bottles in a baggie to protect the labels? Also, do you put the bottles in a bowl and then put the bowl in the cp to keep the bottles off the bottom?

Appreciate the help and any other "pointers" to help with my first time.

Steve

I just use blue painters tape when using the slow cooker. I do put two bottles a piece in a small freezer bag just in case of who knows what and suck the air out. I haven't had any leakage issues this way. I think the bowl would minimize equal heat distribution, but I could be wrong.

 

[dannyv45]

No need to elevate if using a crock pot. If using a UC then use a basket to keep the bottles off the metal floor.

 

[Vtwin]

Thanks everybody for the help! I appreciate it.

Steve

 

[buffaloguy]

Thats kind of what I thought. However, I cant say I ever checked the temp of the juice inside the glass bottles I use. I just tested the temp of the water in the crock pot. That seemed to me to be the measurement that got me the results I was looking for. Ill check temps inside the bottles in my next mixing session. Wont be till later this week though.

Theoretically, if you're leaving larger sized bottles in for a longer time period, then the liquid would eventually reach the same temp as the smaller bottles. Nic degradation would be slower, but adding time to larger quantities would seem to have the same effect if the liquid inside is reaching the same temp. This is speculation, though.

I'm curious now, however, if anyone is measuring the temp of the juice.

When I first started diy, I once put a 10 ml in the microwave for 8 seconds and took the temp. In 8 seconds, it reached 170F. That was the first and last time I did that.

Are people checking the temp of the juice? or just the water in the SC/UC?

 

[mikepetro]

Hi everybody - I am going to try the crock pot method for the first time today. Do you put your bottles in a baggie to protect the labels? Also, do you put the bottles in a bowl and then put the bowl in the cp to keep the bottles off the bottom?

Appreciate the help and any other "pointers" to help with my first time.

Steve

If labels coming off is a problem, I use different colored rubber bands around the neck of the bottle.

 

[mikepetro]

One thing I wonder tho. Does volume of the liquid being steeped matter and effect the results of all these tests? In my mind it stands to reason a 5 or 10ml bottle would be effected more than a 60, 120, or 250ml size. I know when I steep bottles over 120ml in the crock I need to

I would speculate that there would be differences. How much difference depends on the the amount of liquid (ie more mass), mass of of the bottles you are using, and the wattage of the heating element. More mass equals slower thermal transfer, more wattage equals faster heat recovery. The heat recovery comes into play as when you first place the bottle(s) in the bath the temperature will drop a little bit, how fast it can transfer the BTUs to heat that mass and recover is affected by the wattage of the heater.


For example, I had the water bath at exactly 150 F. When I placed the bottles in it dropped, and took about 15 minutes to recover. A stronger heater would have recovered faster.

 

[Moodyfisherman]

My tip for you: Do not bother putting a label on the flask before putting them in water... they'll come right off!

Unless...you use Nude Nicotine's labels you buy from them....very durable....like the paper label is bonded to the adhesive.....good stuff

 

[buffaloguy]

Well we use the same crockpot Mike. Mine does the same. I actually prefer my mini crock vs my 6 quart one. It maintains temp and recovers better. I wasnt wondering so much about recovery time. That I anticipate with anything cooking related. This is no different. Im really thinking more just amount of nic lost at 150° for various volumes of eliquid. Of course with the tests you are doing it shouldnt be too hard to approximate and likely end up close once we have some numbers.

I would speculate that there would be differences. How much difference depends on the the amount of liquid (ie more mass), mass of of the bottles you are using, and the wattage of the heating element. More mass equals slower thermal transfer, more wattage equals faster heat recovery. The heat recovery comes into play as when you first place the bottle(s) in the bath the temperature will drop a little bit, how fast it can transfer the BTUs to heat that mass and recover is affected by the wattage of the heater.


For example, I had the water bath at exactly 150 F. When I placed the bottles in it dropped, and took about 15 minutes to recover. A stronger heater would have recovered faster.

 

[mikepetro]

The remaining Taste testers should be recieving their samples tomorrow....

In the meantime I am waiting on some equipment from WL.

I have cooked all of the various samples.

I did some preliminary testing today, and if my results are repeated with the new equipment I am going to be eating a heavy helping of Crow......

I will publish the results once I get the more accurate equipment from WL and retest, but so far it looks like no loss even at 194F for 24 hours. I did 3 tests on each of the Control, the 150F at 24 hours, and the 194F at 24 hours. All 9 samples consumed either 10.5ml or 10.6ml of HCL, and the .1ml HCL variance was evenly distributed between the 3 bottles. This equates to 34.07mg to 34.39mg in all 3, from uncooked to 194F at 24hours.

I did discover a really stupid mistake I made in my first round of testing. I did not look close enough at the Burette I was using. It is a 10ml Burette, and I mistakenly thought that if I emptied the burette completely it had dispensed 10ml. WRONG. There is some space below the 10ml mark, and you have to stop it at the 10ml mark and then refill, or you wont know the true value. During the first round of testing I allowed the burette to empty completely and then I refilled it, counting the first fill as 10ml. Bottom line, the first test I did in my blog is totally invalid!

I hang my head in shame, but I will post the results upon retesting, using my newly acquired knowledge, and the new burette that WL is sending.

 

[MotorN]

For people looking for a UC unit this seems to be a very good deal.....

New 2 5L Stainless Steel Commercial Ultrasonic Cleaner w Timer Heater Jewelry | eBay

Especially free USA shipping

Also selling on Ebay.ca for $189.99 free shipping out of Toronto

 

[JackH]

I will publish the results once I get the more accurate equipment from WL and retest, but so far it looks like no loss even at 194F for 24 hours. I did 3 tests on each of the Control, the 150F at 24 hours, and the 194F at 24 hours.

Mike, thanks for your efforts. What you're doing goes above and beyond the call. Sorry if I missed this, did your samples contain any flavors? I'm very curious about a juice steeping at 194 degrees for 24 hours.

 

[chuckh]

Hello Mike... Did you build or buy your Temperature Controller? I'm looking for a good controller.

Chuck

 

[mikepetro]

Mike, thanks for your efforts. What you're doing goes above and beyond the call. Sorry if I missed this, did your samples contain any flavors? I'm very curious about a juice steeping at 194 degrees for 24 hours.

No, no flavoring. It was just 36mg nic straight out of the bottle. The bottle came from WL a year ago and had been stored in the freezer without opening.