Steeping vs Airing Out?

[OlderNDirt]

I make my DIY @ 7mg nic, and I found that just 6% of each of the LS + LL tastes great to me with that strength of nic. Kimberly (OSDIY) makes her DIY @ 24mg nic, so she makes hers using 10% of each to get the flavoring taste she prefers. Not sure which of those % of each that I've posted before, is what you make yours at. Or, you may make it at an even different % that makes it taste best to you.

Anyway, I always make it in 100mL batches now. I used to go through that easily in 2 weeks or less, while vaping maybe just 1 2mL tank of another mix also each day. I did notice when I was doing that for months, that the flavor strength in the LS/LL seemed to be slightly less to me by evening each day.

Now that I've started making Bill's Peach Cobbler again, too...the LS/LL and the Peach Cobbler get almost equal use each day. So the 100mL of LS/LL lasts about a month now. I've noticed I don't detect any flavor strength loss in it now at all. In fact, it's full-flavored from morning until I go to bed. So apparently that "dulling of my taste buds" to it, isn't happening any more.

Maybe if you try something similar, your "buds" will detect them more, too. Worth a try maybe.

This mix was 6mg nic with 8% each LS/LL, 30PG/70VG. I vape it for maybe 2 - 3 hours every day, so I haven't noticed any drop off in a given day and my 100ml bottle should last me a couple months. Just the last few days around the 1 month mark, it seems muted right from the start. I have no idea if this is specific to this mix or can be the case with some/many mixes, so I tried asking in more general terms to better fit the thread.

 

[JCinFLA]

I have no idea if this is specific to this mix or can be the case with some/many mixes, so I tried asking in more general terms to better fit the thread.

I make the LS/LL mix using 6% of each for 3 friends, too. Been making it for them for probably 6-8 months. They haven't said anything about the flavor becoming muted, but I'll ask them about it to find out.

I've noticed that another mix I make, with all TFA flavorings, does seem to become muted after a month or so. But that's the only 1 so far. It has lemon in it, that many say sort of fades away with time.

 

[DaveP]

The discussion about ethyl alcohol up topic made me wonder why flavor manufacturers would add EA. It couldn't be that there's oil based ingredients that need it as a catalyst to mix because that's a no-no in vape products. Obviously, there's something in those juices that needs a catalyst to mix.

Throat hit and flavor might be the reason, but everyone recommends airing alcohol based flavors out to get rid of the alcohol. I can't think of any other reason. Water based contents mix well with non-oily ingredients.

 

[JohnLee]

The discussion about ethyl alcohol up topic made me wonder why flavor manufacturers would add EA. It couldn't be that there's oil based ingredients that need it as a catalyst to mix because that's a no-no in vape products. Obviously, there's something in those juices that needs a catalyst to mix.

Throat hit and flavor might be the reason. I can't think of any other reason.

I have read an article regarding flavor extraction, the natural way of extracting the flavor have EA on it, the flavor concentrate we purchase like CAP, TPA, FLAVORAH, FA and some are artificially created. But don't worry they are food grade.

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[DaveP]

I have read an article regarding flavor extraction, the natural way of extracting the flavor have EA on it, the flavor concentrate we purchase like CAP, TPA, FLAVORAH, FA and some are artificially created. But don't worry they are food grade.

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I get that, but my concern was that we all let the alcohol air out and evaporate before vaping. Since that's the case it must be in there as a catalyst to allow certain ingredients to mix. The question follows ... what's in there that isn't water soluble and why? The best answer I've found is to create throat hit.

Then, there's this article from Yale about alcohol in vape juice affecting motor skills in test subjects.
Alcohol in e-cigs can affect motor skills, Yale study shows

 

[JCinFLA]

@DaveP - I found this info. in CAP FAQ while looking for the ingredients for several of their flavorings the other day. I think it answers your question, at least as far as why CAP uses it in some flavorings anyway:

"Do Flavor Drops contain Alcohol?
Some of our flavors will contain alcohol, for example Orange Creamsicle. The reason behind this is the Orange or Citrus Oils require alcohol in order to make the solution water soluable.
Any alcohol used is used ONLY as a "flavor carrier" for this purpose.
Since our flavors are so concentrated (requiring only 3 to 10 Drops per application ) the amount of alcohol is not even traceable."

 

[IDJoel]

It couldn't be that there's oil based ingredients that need it as a catalyst to mix because that's a no-no in vape products.

Not true. LorAnn Oils is still a common(?) flavor manufacturer who has used oils in a significant number of flavor concentrates. Oils are not an issue for food and beverage (ingestion) use; which is where many of the big flavor manufacturers still make their bread and butter. You are absolutely correct that oil is not healthy to inhale.

Obviously, there's something in those juices that needs a catalyst to mix.

I know alcohol has a better capacity for suspension (solvency?) than PG or VG (at least for some compounds). This can quickly be seen if you google how to dissolve EM, or menthol crystals, in all three carriers. You will note that alcohol can solvate a greater amount of the crystals than either PG or VG.

I have never seen it stated, and this is purely my own conjecture, but I always guessed that it was for this characteristic it was often used: It would permit the use of less carrier, and therefore, a more concentrated concentrate.

I have read that one of the reasons you don't want to "air out" a flavor concentrate prior to adding to our recipes, is because it can lead to the concentrate separating (supporting your hypothesis of catalyst), and crystals/particles forming and falling out of suspension/solution (supporting my hypothesis of solvency?).

My chemistry education ended in high school and that was more than 3 decades ago; so I could be completely wrong. I welcome any, and all, corrections.

 

[IDJoel]

@DaveP - I found this info. in CAP FAQ while looking for the ingredients for several of their flavorings the other day. I think it answers your question, at least as far as why CAP uses it in some flavorings anyway:

"Do Flavor Drops contain Alcohol?
Some of our flavors will contain alcohol, for example Orange Creamsicle. The reason behind this is the Orange or Citrus Oils require alcohol in order to make the solution water soluable.
Any alcohol used is used ONLY as a "flavor carrier" for this purpose.
Since our flavors are so concentrated (requiring only 3 to 10 Drops per application ) the amount of alcohol is not even traceable."

(emphasis by IDJoel)
So JC, or anyone else, do you think CAP is saying; that if there is EA declared in one of their products, it also contains oil(s)? If so; it might cause a person to reevaluate using some of their flavors. And, if it does NOT, which flavor concentrates DO contain oils? I really hadn't thought this was much of an issue (outside of LA) anymore.

 

[JCinFLA]

So JC, or anyone else, do you think CAP is saying; that if there is EA declared in one of their products, it also contains oil(s)?

Well, based on their own statement...I don't see how it could mean otherwise, unless it only applies to their Citrus flavors. But, then why would they use it in flavorings that aren't citrus...like their Sweet Strawberry that I really like? A strawberry isn't a citrus fruit, last I checked anyway. Been picking thousands of them down here in my lifetime. When citrus growers talk about the FL citrus industry...never heard strawberries included in those discussions either.

 

[DaveP]

(emphasis by IDJoel)
So JC, or anyone else, do you think CAP is saying; that if there is EA declared in one of their products, it also contains oil(s)? If so; it might cause a person to reevaluate using some of their flavors. And, if it does NOT, which flavor concentrates DO contain oils? I really hadn't thought this was much of an issue (outside of LA) anymore.

It does give me pause when I see Alcohol as an ingredient in a favoring. After all, most flavors are soluble in water or oil and water based flavorings would need a catalyst to mix with oil base flavors.

Oil bases and lung problems are the reason that nose drops went from oil based mixes to water soluble mixes over 50 years ago. Thinking that there might be oil in any flavoring would make that flavor something to throw out of my flavor box.

I may be completely off track here, but it's something to consider. Any one have info on why ethyl alcohol is in some flavors? I've heard that it's to dissolve particulate ingredients that need to become part of the emulsion in a liquid. That would be an acceptable reason for its use.

 

[JohnLee]

It does give me pause when I see Alcohol as an ingredient in a favoring. After all, most flavors are soluble in water or oil and water based flavorings would need a catalyst to mix with oil base flavors.

Oil bases and lung problems are the reason that nose drops went from oil based mixes to water soluble mixes over 50 years ago. Thinking that there might be oil in any flavoring would make that flavor something to throw out of my flavor box.

I may be completely off track here, but it's something to consider. Any one have info on why ethyl alcohol is in some flavors? I've heard that it's to dissolve particulate ingredients that need to become part of the emulsion in a liquid. That would be an acceptable reason for its use.

I tried using flavor concentrates with alcohol content, I don't have any issue with the alcohol content concentrate since I know the process on how to dissipate the alcohols in my mixes, as for the oils in the concentrates I am confident that the flavor concentrate company where I purchased them will not harm my lungs big time.

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[JCinFLA]

as for the oils in the concentrates I am confident that the flavor concentrate company where I purchased them will not harm my lungs big time.

If you are willing to gamble by vaping flavor concentrates that contain oils...you are putting your lungs at risk...big time! IMO, your confidence in the flavor concentrate company to protect your lungs from damage...is misplaced and unwise. But, they won't bear any responsibility for it, if/when your lungs are damaged by it, will they?

 

[JohnLee]

If you are willing to gamble by vaping flavor concentrates that contain oils...you are putting your lungs at risk...big time! IMO, your confidence in the flavor concentrate company to protect your lungs from damage...is misplaced and unwise. But, they won't bear any responsibility for it, if/when your lungs are damaged by it, will they?

I won't blame them nor held responsible for might what happen to my lungs, as far as I know that vaping those flavors with oil, in a very minute amount will not harm my lungs compare to smoking, same with diketones the popcorn lungs is still not that proven, compare to those who work in a popcorn company as a vaper I get those diketones in small amounts. Will it destroy my lungs, maybe yes or I should say yes but no as fast as the lungs of the smokers. Just my opinion.

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[Avid Vapor]

If you are willing to gamble by vaping flavor concentrates that contain oils...you are putting your lungs at risk...big time! IMO, your confidence in the flavor concentrate company to protect your lungs from damage...is misplaced and unwise. But, they won't bear any responsibility for it, if/when your lungs are damaged by it, will they?

Hey JCin

Sorry to stalk you like this but I was trying to get in touch with you on pm and couldn't.

Hope all is well.

Cheers!


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