Straw man arugment as to why the FDA hasnt shutdown SmokingEverywhere

[palermo45]

I was led to believe that the FDA or Customs gave the recipient a choice of either having them confiscated/destroyed or returned to sender. I'm concerned that the authorities can do this without offering the option to return them.
Alan.

Hi Alan,

I was given a choice of either having them returned or destroyed. China would have accepted the package back, however the shipping costs would have been around $800 (for just 40 units) At that point I figured why lose another $800 + shipping costs back to the US to "try again"? Ultimately the package was destroyed. Of coarse "destroyed" is what they tell us. Who knows? Maybe their are some UPS/FDA employees freely vaping at my expense? I hope they enjoy the apple flavor!!!

 

[palermo45]

I think the biggest issue is that they don't want anyone to be "lied to", vis a vis "smoking cessation device". And I can understand that.. but, according to logic and reason, if you can "step down" with Nicoderm CQ (tm), a patch that doesn't help with your nicotine levels as readily as inhaling (scientifically proved over and over), then you can certainly "step down" with e-cigs. Logic makes them a valid cessation device, if you follow the same protocol as is listed in the patch boxes (but that info/instruction is NOT provided in e-cig packages, hence not _really_ a cessation device).

If people would STOP LYING or being DECEITFUL, we'd have none of these problems. But, as one poster in another thread put it, "that's business".. ah, yes.. lying for money.. good business, and the exact reason we need the FDA..... /sigh

I wasn't aware that e-cigs were still being sold in the U.S. by major retailers. Since that's true, this looks more and more like a "protect our market" ploy, coupled with "make sure NO unfounded claims are allowed to profit"..

I guess I'll order my vap stuff (been holding off, but I recon it's time).. and I'll put a request on the order to "plain wrap" the package and make sure there is NO indication as to "e-cig" or "ejuice" or _anything_ like that on the package. I don't want my stuff being turned around.. You'd think the sellers would already be on that boat, but.

I disagree! That would be like saying that if a handful of retailers "Guaranteed" that Nicoderm is 100% effective and will work, and the FDA pulled the product due to that.

I am one of the first people who believe that e-cigs should be regulated. The bottom line is that Nicotine can be very dangerous. The correct action for the FDA would be to immediately initiate some testing on e-cig products and determine the level of safety. In the meantime, the FDA should allow the products to be sold as long as they are marketed correctly. They should make it mandatory that no one under age 18 can purchase this product. Then once they reveal the accurate findings through their studies, they can decide which way to go. Us adults living in this so-called "Free Country" should definately be able to decide whether we want to smoke cigarettes, vape, or whatever. The government is sticking it's nose up too many a#### and sooner or later it will backfire on them. If they ban e-cigs, all they will do is create a black market, or a similar product to be manufactured. Sometimes "logic" is so clear to most people except the government!! What would really happen if Marijuana were legalized and taxed? Geez,,more money for the Government and no more drug wars with the Mexican cartels (at least for Marijuana) It looks like a win win to me!! It just will not happen due to the idiot conservatives who have zero clue of what they are doing.

It just makes no sense!!!

 

[Savantster]

"The bottom line is that Nicotine can be very dangerous."

so can bleach and ammonia. Doubt that? go pour a bottle of bleach in your tub, then dump in a bottle of ammonia window cleaner.. you won't be able to come back and report the results of your study because you'll die in seconds from the chlorine gas that is created.

most things in our lives "can be dangerous", that doesn't mean responsible adults should not have access to them.. nor does "regulation" mean "banned". I have _no_ problem with regulation.

I guess I don't understand what you disagree with with my post (that you quoted) since it is saying just about the same thing you are, in different terms. That is, claims are being made that this "can help you stop smoking", and that has neither been "tested", nor do they offer the "supporting processes" you need to "try and quit". That is, Nicoderm CQ _has_ that document and these "buy my vape stuff! it will help you quit!" is _misleading_ at best, and counter to being "honest" since they don't include the proper information to "help you quit".

I probably am not getting this out there properly..

 

[OutWest]

Hello,

These just said "smoking anywhere" on the box. I got into it with an FDA rep when he told me the problem was in the user manual on page 6 (I believe it was page 6) At that point I e-mailed him the user manual from SE which is 100% identical, verbatim with both words and illustrations. His reply to me was "we can not discuss our enforcement against companies with individuals". However it is just more bs. Obviously there has not been any enforcement against Njoy otherwise this product would not be selling at Costco!! Hello???

If it was the manual, you should have been able to alter the product to meet their needs by pulling all the manuals out of the packages and destroying them (and possibly having to replace the manuls with ones without the page 6). You might have had to hire someone to go in there to do it, but relabeling, etc to bring an item into compliance for importation is often done.

 

[palermo45]

If it was the manual, you should have been able to alter the product to meet their needs by pulling all the manuals out of the packages and destroying them (and possibly having to replace the manuls with ones without the page 6). You might have had to hire someone to go in there to do it, but relabeling, etc to bring an item into compliance for importation is often done.

Hello,

I asked them about that option and was denied. I even asked if I could bring in just the atomizers and batteries and was also told "no". I think they didn't like the fact that I countered their arguement with validity and they simply did not want to give in.

 

[OutWest]

Hello,

I asked them about that option and was denied. I even asked if I could bring in just the atomizers and batteries and was also told "no". I think they didn't like the fact that I countered their arguement with validity and they simply did not want to give in.

a customs broker would have probably served you well, then. Several years ago parents had a large shipment of pool cues come in from Taiwan. They were stopped at customs. Broker found out that the reason was was because they didnt see any country of origin stickers on the items. So, customs broker arranged for a hired person to go in and put stickers on all the items and once that was done they were released. When they got here it turned out that the stickers were there, they just opened the wrong end of the boxes. Without the broker they would have been rejected by customs and not allowed in.

Of course, they dont have to allow relabeling and reconditioning, but there is an entire procedure for such outlined in 21 CFR 1.95.

 

[strayling]

I would have had them returned. No need to risk them "accidentally" going missing and getting resold on the black market.

 

[palermo45]

"The bottom line is that Nicotine can be very dangerous."

so can bleach and ammonia. Doubt that? go pour a bottle of bleach in your tub, then dump in a bottle of ammonia window cleaner.. you won't be able to come back and report the results of your study because you'll die in seconds from the chlorine gas that is created.

most things in our lives "can be dangerous", that doesn't mean responsible adults should not have access to them.. nor does "regulation" mean "banned". I have _no_ problem with regulation.

I guess I don't understand what you disagree with with my post (that you quoted) since it is saying just about the same thing you are, in different terms. That is, claims are being made that this "can help you stop smoking", and that has neither been "tested", nor do they offer the "supporting processes" you need to "try and quit". That is, Nicoderm CQ _has_ that document and these "buy my vape stuff! it will help you quit!" is _misleading_ at best, and counter to being "honest" since they don't include the proper information to "help you quit".

I probably am not getting this out there properly..

I agreed with most of your original post except for when you said that "If people would STOP LYING or being DECEITFUL, we'd have none of these problems." Just because some salespeople verbally state misleading facts should not hinder an entire fleet of products. If resellers state on their packaging that these devices are CRT's, then that particular brand should be dealt with, however a few unscrupulous sales people verbally lying about their particular brand would not hinder the entire industry. That is the way I see it. Even though I believe this is the best cessation device ever made available, I would never put that on a box. If I did put that on the box, then it should only affect myself and have no bearing on other Companies.

 

[so2late4me]

Where did you get that information about Intellicig? When I last spoke to David he said that only 2 orders had been 'customised' out of hundreds that have been shipped and that they were with a particular courier. They were not destroyed or confiscated but returned intact. Another post on here claims "It really pisses me off when I hear of so many packages being detained and destroyed with the BS explanation from the FDA stating this is an unapproved new drug". I haven't heard of this happening, what actual evidence is there? I'm not saying it hasn't happened but some of this sounds a little like scaremongering which might deter people from ordering outside the US. Yes, I'm a bit suspicious and cynical!
Alan.

This is what i got from U.S suplier when I emailed about an attempt to order. [FONT="]Hi[/FONT][FONT="][/FONT]
[FONT="] [/FONT]
[FONT="]Sorry for the problems with the US site.[/FONT][FONT="][/FONT]
[FONT="] [/FONT]
[FONT="]Unfortunatly US Customs siezed all the stock at Miami airport, the FDA have blocked all imports of electronic cigerettes into the USA and issued enforcment warnings to retailers and marketers of the product.[/FONT][FONT="][/FONT]
[FONT="]We ahve disabled the website for now so no purchases can be made.You can order from the UK website but as you pointed out US customs sometimes delay delivery.[/FONT][FONT="][/FONT]
[FONT="]You can also purchase from Ebay.co.uk, for slightly less cost.[/FONT][FONT="][/FONT]
[FONT="]My commercial director has a meeting with the FDA later this month to find out how we can export to the USA legally. This may take sometime to meet all their potencial requirements.[/FONT][FONT="][/FONT]
[FONT="] [/FONT]
[FONT="]Regards[/FONT][FONT="][/FONT]
[FONT="]Rob Ellis[/FONT][FONT="][/FONT]

 

[lordmage]

as some have said 'blowing smoke " exactly

 

[RIAFlight25]

WOW,

Interesting Stuff... But Im not going to get all panicked until I see something happen... *Knock on wood*

 

[Kendra]

I am one of the first people who believe that e-cigs should be regulated. The bottom line is that Nicotine can be very dangerous. The correct action for the FDA would be to immediately initiate some testing on e-cig products and determine the level of safety. In the meantime, the FDA should allow the products to be sold as long as they are marketed correctly. They should make it mandatory that no one under age 18 can purchase this product. Then once they reveal the accurate findings through their studies, they can decide which way to go. Us adults living in this so-called "Free Country" should definately be able to decide whether we want to smoke cigarettes, vape, or whatever. The government is sticking it's nose up too many a#### and sooner or later it will backfire on them. If they ban e-cigs, all they will do is create a black market, or a similar product to be manufactured. Sometimes "logic" is so clear to most people except the government!! What would really happen if Marijuana were legalized and taxed? Geez,,more money for the Government and no more drug wars with the Mexican cartels (at least for Marijuana) It looks like a win win to me!! It just will not happen due to the idiot conservatives who have zero clue of what they are doing.

It just makes no sense!!!

Why are you making this the issue? First of all, it's liberals who readily support the FDA (your first bolded statement), more government intervention, and higher taxes. Secondly, conservatives and libertarians would prefer NOT to have as much government intervention, the libertarians would like to see the FDA go out of business, and both would prefer to have lower taxes. You make no sense. But, hey, I'm not surprised.

Edited to add: I'm not even opposed to legalizing marijuana. I'm opposed to taxing the hell out of it like they do cigarettes and everything else, though. Taxing it would create a whole new black market anyways as would the fact that factory produced marijuana would be limited in its potency. So, there are no clear answers. But to blame "idiot conservatives" for an issue that is caused by liberals is clearly its own brand of idiocy.

 

[expsnrth]

The United States is having a problem figuring out how to make money off e cigarettes. The United States takes in massive money from growing and selling tobacco and it's products. Money makes the world go round and money always wins!

 

[cherrypopwizkid]

Someone mentioned something about using an FDA approved ingrident in anything required FDA approval if it was the active ingrediant. Even without the active ingrediant loop hole, couldn't they buy time by claiming an alternate use for the solution? This happens all the time. Ever seen those tiny roses in glass tubes at a gas station? Cops hate those. They are crack viles. But they aren't drug paraphanilia because there supposed to be to hold tiny useless flowers in. Yeah right. I don't mean to compare crack and e-cigs, but the legal principle could apply.

 

[Kate51]

Is the FDA done with the bad pecans and peanut butter?
Oh-Oh!

 

[jrobo1980]

I can almost understand customs stopping the juice but I don't see how they can stop components. How could the FDA have any say on non-medical electronic parts?

 

[TropicalBob]

Just FYI: The FDA has said publicly that electronic cigarettes are drug-delivery devices, the drug is to treat nicotine addiction, and the e-cig is thus a medical device. That's how they go after everything -- not just liquid. Agree or disagree, that is the reasoning.

 

[ApOsTle51]

Thing is , your not treating your nicotine addiction , your feeding it.

To say to treat it , is to say it's a smoking cessation device..which it isn't.

 

[esmok-e]

Thing is , your not treating your nicotine addiction , your feeding it.

To say to treat it , is to say it's a smoking cessation device..which it isn't.

If it's a disease, you treat it. If it's a pet, you feed it.

 

[Vicks Vap-oh-Yeah]

Thing is , your not treating your nicotine addiction , your feeding it.

To say to treat it , is to say it's a smoking cessation device..which it isn't.

Tell me why nicotine, in solution, gum, patches, lollypops, water, or any of the other hundreds of ways you could suspend this, if properly regulated, couldn't flourish as a recreational activity? Alcohol is a legal, recreational toxin...

The correct action for the FDA would be to immediately initiate some testing on e-cig products and determine the level of safety.

The FDA does not initiate its own testing...that costs money. They stop product sales or imports until the manufacturer initiates the testing. that's their job, they regulate, not prove safe or not safe.